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Author Topic: Another disappearing bullet  (Read 2758 times)

Online Royell Storing

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Re: Another disappearing bullet
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2018, 09:04:11 PM »
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Matt, OP Wright never went on record stating that the bullet that he got from Tomlinson was not CE-399.

    It was No accident that OP Wright was Not called to testify before the WC. There is a Long List of Key Eyewitnesses that the WC avoided hearing testify & having their account Historically Documented.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 09:28:37 PM by Royell Storing »

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Re: Another disappearing bullet
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2018, 09:04:11 PM »


Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Another disappearing bullet
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2018, 09:09:58 PM »
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  Being on the record being defined by appearing before the Warren Commission?

No. Although, that certainly would be one way. He never stated publicly, in written, transcribed or audio form, that CE-399 was definitely not the bullet that he handled. He could not positively identify it as being the same bullet but he never ruled it out either.

Offline James Dahl

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Re: Another disappearing bullet
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2018, 09:29:24 PM »
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James, your knowledge on the details of the assassination is extremely lacking. You may want to familiarize yourself with the basics of the case before opining on it. Connally had at least two exit wounds. Three when you consider that the bullet exited his thigh on it's own. There were six fragments of lead detected in his body; five in his wrist and one in his thigh. Four of the fragments in his wrist were removed by Dr. Gregory.



The notes for CE-842 state it was extracted from Connally's wrist, not his thigh.  Connally has an exit wound in his chest, he only has an entrance wound on his thigh.  Connally's exit wound on his chest isn't an exit from his body though because the bullet proceeded to enter his thigh and is still there.  Some fragments of the bullet were found in the car but most lodged into Connally's body.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Another disappearing bullet
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2018, 09:34:02 PM »
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No. Although, that certainly would be one way. He never stated publicly, in written, transcribed or audio form, that CE-399 was definitely not the bullet that he handled. He could not positively identify it as being the same bullet but he never ruled it out either.


Wright also never confirmed publicly that the bullet now in evidence as CE 399 is in fact the bullet he received from Tomlinson either.

And Tomlinson, who did appear before the WC, was never shown CE 399 during his testimony, because....... it was only entered into evidence after he had testified. Go figure!

Tomlinson btw also never confirmed that the bullet now in evidence as CE 399 was indeed the bullet he found.

There is in fact no positive identification of bullet CE 399 by the first four people who handled it. For all we know bullet CE 399 started it's evidentiary life at the FBI lab in Washington.

Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: Another disappearing bullet
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2018, 09:43:38 PM »
Six Seconds in Dallas reported on an interview with O.P. Wright in November 1966. Before any photos were shown or he was asked for any description of #399, Wright said: “That bullet had a pointed tip.”

“Pointed tip?” Thompson asked.

“Yeah, I’ll show you. It was like this one here,” he said, reaching into his desk and pulling out the .30 caliber bullet pictured in Six Seconds.”[8]

As Thompson described it in 1967, “I then showed him photographs of CE’s 399, 572 (the two ballistics comparison rounds from Oswald’s rifle) (sic), and 606 (revolver bullets) (sic), and he rejected all of these as resembling the bullet Tomlinson found on the stretcher. Half an hour later in the presence of two witnesses, he once again rejected the picture of 399 as resembling the bullet found on the stretcher.”[9]
[Fig. 4]

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Re: Another disappearing bullet
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2018, 09:43:38 PM »


Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Another disappearing bullet
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2018, 09:53:49 PM »
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The notes for CE-842 state it was extracted from Connally's wrist, not his thigh. 

Right. I already noted that a fragment was left in his thigh.

Quote
Connally has an exit wound in his chest, he only has an entrance wound on his thigh.

He had an exit wound in his chest, an exit wound in his wrist. The wound in his thigh was primarily an entrance wound but the bullet also did exit through that same wound.

 
Quote
Connally's exit wound on his chest isn't an exit from his body though

That's nonsense. Of course it's an exit from his body.

Quote
because the bullet proceeded to enter his thigh and is still there.

The bullet is not still there.


Quote
Some fragments of the bullet were found in the car but most lodged into Connally's body.

None of the fragments of the bullet were found in the car.

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Another disappearing bullet
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2018, 09:57:12 PM »
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Six Seconds in Dallas reported on an interview with O.P. Wright in November 1966. Before any photos were shown or he was asked for any description of #399, Wright said: “That bullet had a pointed tip.”

“Pointed tip?” Thompson asked.

“Yeah, I’ll show you. It was like this one here,” he said, reaching into his desk and pulling out the .30 caliber bullet pictured in Six Seconds.”[8]

As Thompson described it in 1967, “I then showed him photographs of CE’s 399, 572 (the two ballistics comparison rounds from Oswald’s rifle) (sic), and 606 (revolver bullets) (sic), and he rejected all of these as resembling the bullet Tomlinson found on the stretcher. Half an hour later in the presence of two witnesses, he once again rejected the picture of 399 as resembling the bullet found on the stretcher.”[9]
[Fig. 4]

That's not a statement made publicly. It's hearsay. Thompson claims that there were two witnesses there. However, both are now deceased and neither of them went on record to confirm Thompson's claim.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Another disappearing bullet
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2018, 10:16:37 PM »
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Six Seconds in Dallas reported on an interview with O.P. Wright in November 1966. Before any photos were shown or he was asked for any description of #399, Wright said: “That bullet had a pointed tip.”

“Pointed tip?” Thompson asked.

“Yeah, I’ll show you. It was like this one here,” he said, reaching into his desk and pulling out the .30 caliber bullet pictured in Six Seconds.”[8]

As Thompson described it in 1967, “I then showed him photographs of CE’s 399, 572 (the two ballistics comparison rounds from Oswald’s rifle) (sic), and 606 (revolver bullets) (sic), and he rejected all of these as resembling the bullet Tomlinson found on the stretcher. Half an hour later in the presence of two witnesses, he once again rejected the picture of 399 as resembling the bullet found on the stretcher.”[9]
[Fig. 4]

You need to understand that Tim, on the one hand, will dismiss out of hand just about anything that points to the problematic nature of CE 399 whilst, on the other hand, accepting even the most vague and questionable "evidence" that possibly could comfirm the veracity of CE 399.


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Re: Another disappearing bullet
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2018, 10:16:37 PM »


Offline James Dahl

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Re: Another disappearing bullet
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2018, 10:19:28 PM »
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That's nonsense. Of course it's an exit from his body.

The bullet is not still there.

None of the fragments of the bullet were found in the car.

There are a number of fragments found in the car in various locations.  What I meant by not exiting his body is that they immediately re-entered his body (in his leg and arm).  There is no exit on his arm or leg, the bullet fragments lodged there and the wrist fragments were removed in surgery and are CE-842.  The leg fragments were never removed, he was buried with them.  I even linked to an article earlier about plans (never executed) to exhume his body in 1993 to recover the fragments in his leg.

I suppose going over the evidence again some fragments from Connally did indeed exit his body on a more permanent basis, as Paul Ernst's post here shows there were more fragments recovered than I had read about:
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The provenance of CE-399 is very mysterious here.  There are basically enough bullet fragments scattered through Connally's body, in the car and lodged in the seat to make a bullet out of, so Shot #2 is accounted for.  What is CE-399?  The bullet that hit the pavement?  The third shot that struck the car?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 10:23:16 PM by James Dahl »

Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: Another disappearing bullet
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2018, 10:36:11 PM »
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That's not a statement made publicly. It's hearsay. Thompson claims that there were two witnesses there. However, both are now deceased and neither of them went on record to confirm Thompson's claim.

 I never claimed it was a public statement. It has already been noted that Warren commissions lack of either Tomlinson, or Wright, being to testify to authenticity in front of them is not just a neutral position There is the 64 FBI memo claiming “appears to be the same one” However, the FBI agent who is supposed to have gotten that admission, Bardwell Odum, and the Bureau’s own once-secret records, don’t back up #2011. Those records say only that neither Tomlinson nor Wright was able to identify the bullet in question, a comment that leaves the impression they saw no resemblance

Mr. Odum told Aguilar, “I didn’t show it [#399] to anybody at Parkland. I didn’t have any bullet … I don’t think I ever saw it even.”  [Fig. 11] Unwilling to leave it at that, both authors paid Mr. Odum a visit in his Dallas home on November 21, 2002. The same alert, friendly man on the phone greeted us warmly and led us to a comfortable family room. To ensure no misunderstanding, we laid out before Mr. Odum all the relevant documents and read aloud from them.

Again, Mr. Odum said that he had never had any bullet related to the Kennedy assassination in his possession, whether during the FBI’s investigation in 1964 or at any other time. Asked whether he might have forgotten the episode, Mr. Odum remarked that he doubted he would have ever forgotten investigating so important a piece of evidence. But even if he had done the work, and later forgotten about it, he said he would certainly have turned in a “302” report covering something that important


 In regard to the two Secret Service agents who were the other two individuals in the chain of custody


A declassified record, however, offers some corroboration for what CE 2011 reported about Secret Service Agents Johnsen and Rowley. A memo from the FBI’s Dallas field office dated 6/24/64 reported that, “ON JUNE TWENTYFOUR INSTANT RICHARD E. JOHNSEN, AND JAMES ROWLEY, CHIEF … ADVISED SA ELMER LEE TODD, WFO, THAT THEY WERE UNABLE TO INDENTIFY RIFLE BULLET C ONE

 Hearsay is generally a term reserved for a courtroom I see no reason to call FBI reports little more than hearsay as well, but in this case there is evidence for wholesale fabrication on the part of the FBI as opposed to the research of Thompson It seems pretty likely that Wright was aware of the story by Josiah Thompson and one would assume would have protested if he had been misquoted

 I am all for people being under oath, recorded or any manner of verifying statements But when there is a lack of any evidence to support a claim, simple interviews do have significance

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Re: Another disappearing bullet
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2018, 10:36:11 PM »