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Author Topic: Can anybody provide proof of a successful reenactment of Oswald's feat?  (Read 6496 times)

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Can anybody provide proof of a successful reenactment of Oswald's feat?
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2018, 03:29:24 AM »
Considering the exit wound, isn't that evidence against rather than for the bullet fragments being from the headshot?

What are you referring to as the exit wound?

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Re: Can anybody provide proof of a successful reenactment of Oswald's feat?
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2018, 03:29:24 AM »


Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: Can anybody provide proof of a successful reenactment of Oswald's feat?
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2018, 05:32:53 AM »
Fair enough Paul I assume the problem is my thought that he might have needed to lay down given the dimensions of the situation I think i was pretty close of the dimensions, but admittedly on the idea that it could be done more easily kneeling or with boxes I will certainly trust others that it was possible It does seem like the frame of the bottom of the raised position of the bottom window would be obstructing ones view if one were knelling with your head above the open portion of the window . My main point is to reproduce the dimensions of the snipers nest during reenactment I did not see all the information you have provided previously on this issue until now

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Can anybody provide proof of a successful reenactment of Oswald's feat?
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2018, 02:18:00 PM »
Fair enough Paul I assume the problem is my thought that he might have needed to lay down given the dimensions of the situation I think i was pretty close of the dimensions, but admittedly on the idea that it could be done more easily kneeling or with boxes I will certainly trust others that it was possible It does seem like the frame of the bottom of the raised position of the bottom window would be obstructing ones view if one were knelling with your head above the open portion of the window . My main point is to reproduce the dimensions of the snipers nest during reenactment I did not see all the information you have provided previously on this issue until now

I did not see all the information you have provided previously on this issue until now

Paul has presented excellent mathematically verifiable information that proves the feat attributed to the arch villain Lee Harrrrrvey Ossssswald ( Boooo Hisssss) would have been impossible.

admittedly on the idea that it could be done more easily kneeling or with boxes I will certainly trust others that it was possible

Howard Brennan, the prime witness who actually saw a gunman in a window at the time of the murder stated under oath that the man was STANDING and aiming a hunting rifle out of a window......he man was not KNEELING ...or crouching...

It should be immediately apparent that Howard Brennan was NOT describing the Imaginary "Sniper's Nest" window.

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Re: Can anybody provide proof of a successful reenactment of Oswald's feat?
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2018, 02:18:00 PM »


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Can anybody provide proof of a successful reenactment of Oswald's feat?
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2018, 03:33:02 PM »


 If it can be done, then why hasn't anyone done so? Or to put it another way we can put to rest the rumor that it has ever been done on video



I have seen such a show on the Discovery Channel several years ago but have not been able to find it on youtube.

About 10 years ago, Michael Yardley did a one-hour program for the Discovery Channel. It was not allowed to fire a real rifle at Dealey Plaza, but he aimed a rifle mounted with a laser pointer, that would momentarily light up when he pressed the trigger. He was able to hit a moving target on Elm Street this way.

A better test, he was able to hit a car that was towed by a cable, moving at 10 mph, at similar elevation and at the similar angles as the three alleged shots at roughly z153, z222 and z312. This test was done in the countryside, where he was allowed to fire a rifle. He fired 16 times and all 16 times he hit a melon size object. He never missed.

As I recall, the firing angle were more difficult for Michael Yardley than it would have been for Oswald, at least for the second and third shots. The car was not moving directly away from Yardley but at a significant angle.

The tests did show one problem. The rifle he was using, the same model Carcano of Oswald’s, tended to jam. He attempted 7 firing sequences with an attempt to fire 3 shots. But in 3 of the 7 sequences, the rifle jammed at some point. But in 4 of the 7, there was no jam and he got off all 3 shots and they always hit the melon size target. He managed to get off 16 shots altogether and all 16 hit the target.

It is possible, since Oswald owned the rifle, and his wife said he practice dry firing with it, Oswald may have been able to work the bolt more smoothly than Michael Yardley. In any case, even if Oswald was no better than Michael Yardley at avoiding jams, he had a 50-50 chance of getting off all three shots.

My most major problem with this test, was that they did not state, as I recall, if Michael Yardley was using the iron sights or the scope. My impression was he always used the scope. I would like to see a test where a shooter used the iron sights, because the scope was probably misaligned on Oswald’s scope. No special effort was made by the company that sold the rifle to align the scope. Oswald (I reasonably assume) would not have been able to align the scope and probably just used the iron sights. Since the shots were all under 100 yards, I assume that using the iron sights would not be a problem. But I would like to see this demonstrated.

In any case, at least using a Carcano rifle with a properly mounted scope, a good shooter can hit a moving target, at 10 mph, at under 100 yards, without the target moving directly away from the shooter.


This program is not to be confused with aother Discovery Channel programs Michael Yardley partipcated in. This better known show, which does NOT show the scenes I describe was:
     “JFK: Inside the Target Car”

But the correct show was, I believe:
     “Discovery Channel: Unsolved History - JFK Conspiracy”
Made about a year before the “Inside the Target Car” show. I have not been able to find this show on Youtube.

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Can anybody provide proof of a successful reenactment of Oswald's feat?
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2018, 07:31:54 PM »
BS! Citation pls.

Mr. EISENBERG - I now hand you a bullet fragment, what appears to be a bullet fragment, in a pill box which is labeled jacket and Lead Q-2,[was admitted as CE-567] and it has certain initials on it. For the record, this was found--this bullet fragment was found--in the front portion of the car in which the President was riding. I ask you whether you are familiar with this object.
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes; I am.
Mr. EISENBERG - Is your mark on--
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG - Did you examine this? Is this a bullet fragment, Mr. Frazier?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. This consists of a piece of the jacket portion of a bullet from the nose area and a piece of the lead core from under the jacket.
Mr. EISENBERG - How were you able to conclude it is part of the nose area?
Mr. FRAZIER - Because of the rifling marks which extend part way up the side, and then have the characteristic leading edge impressions and no longer continue along the bullet, and by the fact that the bullet has a rounded contour to it which has not been mutilated.
Mr. EISENBERG - Did you examine this bullet to determine whether it had been fired from Exhibit 139 to the exclusion of all other weapons?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG - What was your conclusion?
Mr. FRAZIER - This bullet fragment was fired in this rifle, 139.
.................................
Mr. EISENBERG - Now finally in the category of bullets and bullet fragments, I hand you what is apparently a bullet fragment, which is in a pill box marked Q-3, and which, I state for the record, was also found in the front portion of the President's car, and I ask you whether you are familiar with this item, marked Q-3?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; this was submitted to me as having been found beside the front seat of the automobile.
Mr. EISENBERG - Your mark is on that fragment?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, it is.
Mr. EISENBERG - When did you receive that fragment, Mr. Frazier?
Mr. FRAZIER - At 11:50 p.m., November 22, 1963, from Special Agent Orrin Bartlett, our liaison agent with the Secret Service, in the FBI laboratory.
Mr. EISENBERG - And the last bullet fragment you examined, Exhibit 567, when did you receive that?
Mr. FRAZIER - It was received at the same time from Special Agent Bartlett.
Mr. EISENBERG - Did you examine both at that time, Mr. Frazier?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; beginning the following morning, November 23.
Mr. EISENBERG - Mr. Chairman, may I have this bullet fragment marked Q-3 admitted as Commission 569?
Mr. McCLOY - It may be admitted.
Mr. EISENBERG - Mr. Frazier, did you examine this bullet fragment with a view to determining whether it had been fired from the rifle, Exhibit 139?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG - What was your conclusion?
Mr. FRAZIER - This bullet fragment, Exhibit 569, was fired from this particular rifle, 139.
Mr. EISENBERG - Again to the exclusion of all other rifles?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazr1.htm


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Re: Can anybody provide proof of a successful reenactment of Oswald's feat?
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2018, 07:31:54 PM »


Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: Can anybody provide proof of a successful reenactment of Oswald's feat?
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2018, 07:47:58 PM »
 Interesting that Frazier does not offer to explain how he has come to the conclusion that the fragment came from Oswald's rifle nor is he questioned in that regard


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070517142528.htm
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 07:55:31 PM by Matt Grantham »

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Can anybody provide proof of a successful reenactment of Oswald's feat?
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2018, 09:04:23 PM »
Interesting that Frazier does not offer to explain how he has come to the conclusion that the fragment came from Oswald's rifle nor is he questioned in that regard

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070517142528.htm

Fragments, not fragment. And Frazier does explain how he came to the conclusion that the fragments came from Oswald's rifle.

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Re: Can anybody provide proof of a successful reenactment of Oswald's feat?
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2018, 09:04:23 PM »


Online Jack Trojan

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Re: Can anybody provide proof of a successful reenactment of Oswald's feat?
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2018, 11:02:57 PM »
Mr. EISENBERG - I now hand you a bullet fragment, what appears to be a bullet fragment, in a pill box which is labeled jacket and Lead Q-2,[was admitted as CE-567] and it has certain initials on it. For the record, this was found--this bullet fragment was found--in the front portion of the car in which the President was riding. I ask you whether you are familiar with this object.
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes; I am.
Mr. EISENBERG - Is your mark on--
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG - Did you examine this? Is this a bullet fragment, Mr. Frazier?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. This consists of a piece of the jacket portion of a bullet from the nose area and a piece of the lead core from under the jacket.
Mr. EISENBERG - How were you able to conclude it is part of the nose area?
Mr. FRAZIER - Because of the rifling marks which extend part way up the side, and then have the characteristic leading edge impressions and no longer continue along the bullet, and by the fact that the bullet has a rounded contour to it which has not been mutilated.
Mr. EISENBERG - Did you examine this bullet to determine whether it had been fired from Exhibit 139 to the exclusion of all other weapons?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG - What was your conclusion?
Mr. FRAZIER - This bullet fragment was fired in this rifle, 139.
.................................
Mr. EISENBERG - Now finally in the category of bullets and bullet fragments, I hand you what is apparently a bullet fragment, which is in a pill box marked Q-3, and which, I state for the record, was also found in the front portion of the President's car, and I ask you whether you are familiar with this item, marked Q-3?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; this was submitted to me as having been found beside the front seat of the automobile.
Mr. EISENBERG - Your mark is on that fragment?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, it is.
Mr. EISENBERG - When did you receive that fragment, Mr. Frazier?
Mr. FRAZIER - At 11:50 p.m., November 22, 1963, from Special Agent Orrin Bartlett, our liaison agent with the Secret Service, in the FBI laboratory.
Mr. EISENBERG - And the last bullet fragment you examined, Exhibit 567, when did you receive that?
Mr. FRAZIER - It was received at the same time from Special Agent Bartlett.
Mr. EISENBERG - Did you examine both at that time, Mr. Frazier?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; beginning the following morning, November 23.
Mr. EISENBERG - Mr. Chairman, may I have this bullet fragment marked Q-3 admitted as Commission 569?
Mr. McCLOY - It may be admitted.
Mr. EISENBERG - Mr. Frazier, did you examine this bullet fragment with a view to determining whether it had been fired from the rifle, Exhibit 139?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG - What was your conclusion?
Mr. FRAZIER - This bullet fragment, Exhibit 569, was fired from this particular rifle, 139.
Mr. EISENBERG - Again to the exclusion of all other rifles?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.


Well, that's all I needed to know about Frazier. What forensic test did he use to determine the "fragments" came from the MC? Ballistic lines on the fragments? HA! Show me the analysis. Ironically, I agree with Frazier that those bullet fragments were likely shot from the MC into a swimming pool or whatever so they could be retrieved and mysteriously turn up as evidence, which Frazier can positively link to the alleged murder weapon. Right. Frazier was clearly a co-conspirator, a fool, or both.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 11:06:55 PM by Jack Trojan »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Can anybody provide proof of a successful reenactment of Oswald's feat?
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2018, 12:19:15 AM »
Well, that's all I needed to know about Frazier. What forensic test did he use to determine the "fragments" came from the MC? Ballistic lines on the fragments? HA! Show me the analysis. Ironically, I agree with Frazier that those bullet fragments were likely shot from the MC into a swimming pool or whatever so they could be retrieved and mysteriously turn up as evidence, which Frazier can positively link to the alleged murder weapon. Right. Frazier was clearly a co-conspirator, a fool, or both.

None other than J. Edgar Hoover himself denounced the evidentiary value of bullet fragments.... In a conversation with LBJ, JEH said that they had very little to link the patsy to the crime ....He told LBJ that they had found bullet fragments in the Lincoln  but they were useless for identifying the rifle from which they had been fired.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 02:09:26 PM by Walt Cakebread »

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Re: Can anybody provide proof of a successful reenactment of Oswald's feat?
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2018, 12:19:15 AM »


Offline Mike Orr

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Re: Can anybody provide proof of a successful reenactment of Oswald's feat?
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2018, 01:23:04 AM »
No !  Leatherneck.com- Kennedy Assassination : Legendary Marine Corps sniper Carlos Hathcock is likewise skeptical of Oswald's alleged shooting feat. Hathcock is a former senior instructor at the U.S. Marine Corps Sniper Instruction School of Quantico , Virginia. He has been described as the most famous American Military sniper in History as of 7-29-07 ( the day of this posting in Leatherneck.com). In Vietnam he was credited with 93 confirmed kills. He conducted police Swat team sniper schools across the country. Craig Roberts asked Hathcock about the marksmanship feat attributed to Oswald by the Warren Commission. Hathcock answered that he did not believe Oswald could have done what the Commission said he did.   Added Hathcock : " Let me tell you what we did at Quantico. We reconstructed the whole thing: the angle, the range, the moving target, the time limit, the obstacles, everything. I don't know how many times we tried it, but we couldn't duplicate what the Warren Commission said Oswald did". (Kill Zone, pp. 89-90). Gunny Hathcock has gone on his last patrol (passed on). God keep you Gunny

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Re: Can anybody provide proof of a successful reenactment of Oswald's feat?
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2018, 01:23:04 AM »