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Author Topic: Was Oswald denied Counsel by the Dallas Authorities ?  (Read 5387 times)

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Was Oswald denied Counsel by the Dallas Authorities ?
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2018, 09:30:53 PM »
So what?

How do you know that they lied? We know that Oswald made an on-camera show for the public but did he actually make a request for an attorney to the DPD? If so, how do you know?

Why do you think his "on camera show" as you put it was not a request to the DPD?  According to Gerald Hill, who was a DPD officer, Oswald asked for a lawyer when they were still in the theater.  And according to one of your star witnesses, William Whaley, he also asked for a lawyer during his lineup.  Is this somehow also not supposed to be a "real request" either?  What makes it a real request in your mind?  Oswald was held incommunicado until Saturday around noon.

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Re: Was Oswald denied Counsel by the Dallas Authorities ?
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2018, 09:30:53 PM »


Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Was Oswald denied Counsel by the Dallas Authorities ?
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2018, 04:50:21 PM »
Under the Bill of Rights you are entitled to representation. You are also entitled to remain silent.

Since the DPD, FBI and the SS claimed that LHO answered questions despite not being represented then he had to waive his right to an attorney, but this form is nowhere to be found.

Can any LNer provide this signed waiver form?

Again, it makes no difference now.  Oswald is long dead.   Any "rights" that he might have been denied him over 50 years ago are relevant only in the context of a criminal trial that will never take place.  Not outside that context.   Here on planet earth, we can take all the relevant information into consideration - whether it would have been admissible or not in a trial - and use that to assess whether Oswald was the assassin.  Conduct a seance and let Oswald know that you believe his rights were violated if that will make you feel better but resolution of that issue adds or detracts nothing, however, from the case against him.

Online Bill Brown

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Re: Was Oswald denied Counsel by the Dallas Authorities ?
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2018, 05:02:49 AM »
It makes a big difference as this is still an OPEN case. LHO was DENIED his rights and this was only necessary if there was NO evidence supporting the claims of the authorities. If there really had been supporting evidence for their claims then this wouldn't have been necessary at all.

No.  This is NOT an open case.  Therefore, your point is entirely invalid.

Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Was Oswald denied Counsel by the Dallas Authorities ?
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2018, 02:32:13 PM »
It makes a big difference as this is still an OPEN case. LHO was DENIED his rights and this was only necessary if there was NO evidence supporting the claims of the authorities. If there really had been supporting evidence for their claims then this wouldn't have been necessary at all.

Contact the DPD and ask them if this is an open case.  Get back to us with their answer.  Is the Lincoln assassination an open case because Booth didn't live long enough to be convicted?  And even if this were an "open" case, Oswald's rights are relevant only to him in a criminal trial.  No one else.  He is dead.  The rest of your babbling makes no sense.  Do you think police only want to interrogate people that are innocent of crimes and not those that are guilty?  LOL.  The police want information.  The more a suspect talks the better regardless of how much evidence they have.  Particularly in the early stages of the investigation when they are trying to confirm what happened.  They have incentives to encourage guilty parties to talk their heads off.  To suggest the police would not want to interrogate Oswald on Nov. 22-24 if they had a strong case is one of the most bizarre claims made here.  And that is saying a whole lot.

Online Mark Valenti

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Re: Was Oswald denied Counsel by the Dallas Authorities ?
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2018, 03:21:31 PM »
Again, it makes no difference now.  Oswald is long dead.   Any "rights" that he might have been denied him over 50 years ago are relevant only in the context of a criminal trial that will never take place.  Not outside that context.   Here on planet earth, we can take all the relevant information into consideration - whether it would have been admissible or not in a trial - and use that to assess whether Oswald was the assassin.  Conduct a seance and let Oswald know that you believe his rights were violated if that will make you feel better but resolution of that issue adds or detracts nothing, however, from the case against him.

Dickie is being stupid again. Historical events are constantly being re-evaluated in light of new information that arises. Ya know, thanks to...dare I say it? Research. What a boob.

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Re: Was Oswald denied Counsel by the Dallas Authorities ?
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2018, 03:21:31 PM »


Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Was Oswald denied Counsel by the Dallas Authorities ?
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2018, 07:48:58 PM »
Dickie is being stupid again. Historical events are constantly being re-evaluated in light of new information that arises. Ya know, thanks to...dare I say it? Research. What a boob.

I'm glad you are not resorting to insults and sticking to substance.  You wouldn't want to be accused of being a bully by maintaining those lofty standards that you demand of others.   LOL.  Of course none of what you said here is relevant to this discussion.  This has nothing to do with anyone's ability to evaluate new information about this case.  What exactly do you believe is "new" about a claim that Oswald was denied legal counsel in 1963?  Do you have some new information on that topic that we are unaware?  No, of course not.  My point is that even if Oswald were denied his "rights" in 1963 it has no apparent relevance since those rights expired with him and could be asserted only in a criminal trial.  Thus, even if Caprio were correct it makes no apparent difference as to whether Oswald was the assassin.  In fact, we benefit from the DPD's alleged violation of Oswald's rights by having access to the information that was derived from his interrogation.  Caprio is trying to exclude - not expand - the information we have about Oswald by suggesting he was a victim whose rights were denied and the information he provided to the DPD should be expunged from the record.  He is making a defense attorney argument outside the context of a trial.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Was Oswald denied Counsel by the Dallas Authorities ?
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2018, 11:08:09 PM »
Again, it makes no difference now.  Oswald is long dead.   Any "rights" that he might have been denied him over 50 years ago are relevant only in the context of a criminal trial that will never take place.  Not outside that context.   Here on planet earth, we can take all the relevant information into consideration - whether it would have been admissible or not in a trial - and use that to assess whether Oswald was the assassin.  Conduct a seance and let Oswald know that you believe his rights were violated if that will make you feel better but resolution of that issue adds or detracts nothing, however, from the case against him.

True to form, Richard ignores all counter-arguments to his proclamations and just repeats his original point over and over again.


Of course it makes a difference how Oswald was treated.  It shows that the police didn't give a whit about how this case was investigated.  Even if he was actually guilty of the crime, they still railroaded him.

Online Mark Valenti

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Re: Was Oswald denied Counsel by the Dallas Authorities ?
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2018, 01:07:44 AM »
My point is that even if Oswald were denied his "rights" in 1963 it has no apparent relevance since those rights expired with him and could be asserted only in a criminal trial.  Thus, even if Caprio were correct it makes no apparent difference as to whether Oswald was the assassin.  In fact, we benefit from the DPD's alleged violation of Oswald's rights by having access to the information that was derived from his interrogation.  Caprio is trying to exclude - not expand - the information we have about Oswald by suggesting he was a victim whose rights were denied and the information he provided to the DPD should be expunged from the record.  He is making a defense attorney argument outside the context of a trial.

All which could readily be applied to every other murder case since time immemorial, except this one particular murder.

This one is unique. Nothing has been adjudicated, and the trial that never happened moved from the courtroom to the court of public opinion. Researchers ("!!) are still finding new information, the government still holds back files on the basis of national security. There has been no closure, no finality, among many sincere, thoughtful people (despite your withering view of how they spend their free time).

Thus, even if Caprio were correct it makes no apparent difference as to whether Oswald was the assassin.

It matters to a lot of people who sadly suspect their government of covering up the truth, and still unknown actors taking part in a plot to remove their president.

Are you incapable of understanding that just because something is unimportant to you, it might be important to someone else? Any empathy at all in that DNA?

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Re: Was Oswald denied Counsel by the Dallas Authorities ?
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2018, 01:07:44 AM »


Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Was Oswald denied Counsel by the Dallas Authorities ?
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2018, 06:53:39 AM »
Oswald spoke freely to the world press.  Do you really believe the plan was to muzzle Oswald by not giving him access to a lawyer but let mobs of press folks ask him questions?  That is very silly.  If THEY did not want Oswald to talk to anyone, THEY would not have arrested him to begin with.  THEY had a perfect opportunity to kill him at the Texas Theatre when he pulled a gun.  Honestly, give what you are suggesting some thought.

"Oswald spoke freely to the world press."

LOL

Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Was Oswald denied Counsel by the Dallas Authorities ?
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2018, 01:59:11 PM »
Baloney. Murder has NO statute of limitations. Your point is invalid as usual.

Put the matter to rest by contacting the DPD to determine if they consider the JFK assassination an "open" case.  The statute of limitation has nothing to do with that.  Is the Lincoln assassination an "open case" in your opinion simply because the assassin was killed prior to a trial?  A case is open only if there is reason to believe the murderer is still unknown.  Not because no one was ever been convicted.   Oswald was charged with the assassination of JFK in 1963 by the Texas authorities who had the responsibility for investigating and prosecuting the case.  It's closed.  But again, Oswald's "rights" are relevant only to him in a trial.  Not in any other context.  So it is unclear what objective would be achieved by concluding they were violated in 1963.  What happens then?

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Re: Was Oswald denied Counsel by the Dallas Authorities ?
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2018, 01:59:11 PM »


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