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Author Topic: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle  (Read 18997 times)

Online David Von Pein

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #210 on: October 03, 2019, 02:33:36 AM »
Yup...the pistol came COD? [not available anymore these days] So where are the Post Office records of the $10 advance payment and the $19.95 pickup payment?

Re: the initial ten-dollar payment....

Why would there be any "Post Office record" of that $10 cash payment that Oswald mailed directly to Seaport Traders?

Please explain why you think the post office would have even SEEN that $10 CASH payment sent by LHO. It was inside an envelope all the way from Dallas to Los Angeles.


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I will say this about David Von Pein [if I haven't before]...We certainly don't agree on the conclusions of the REPORT but his work compiling his abundant JFK assassination materials is exemplary.

That stated..can he supply the links pertaining to the revolver order as requested above?

Pistol Talk....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/08/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-42.html

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/11/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-69.html

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/12/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-75.html

« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 02:36:02 AM by David Von Pein »

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #210 on: October 03, 2019, 02:33:36 AM »

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #211 on: October 03, 2019, 02:50:13 AM »
Re: the initial ten-dollar payment....

Why would there be any "Post Office record" of that $10 cash payment that Oswald mailed directly to Seaport Traders?

Please explain why you think the post office would have even SEEN that $10 CASH payment sent by LHO. It was inside an envelope all the way from Dallas to Los Angeles.


Why would there be any "Post Office record" of that $10 cash payment that Oswald mailed directly to Seaport Traders?

There wouldn't be, but what about the balance of $19.95 to be paid (C.O.D) at the collection of the package?

How did that money (if it was ever collected) get to Seaport and where is the paper trail for it?

Offline W. Tracy Parnell

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #212 on: October 03, 2019, 02:52:27 AM »
Jerry asked me to weigh in since my timeline is referenced. DVP has it right as far as I can tell (haven't looked at this in a while). The order was filled out by LHO (not necessarily mailed) on the 27th. My chronology should have made that clearer. I had been working on a more detailed one and got up to early 1963 before getting sucked into a black hole known as Veciana.

"Drittal" was shown to be written by LHO by a handwriting expert:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=34#relPageId=383&tab=page

As far as details of the revolver purchase, DVP links to an article by Dale Myers:

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2010/08/oswalds-mail-order-revolver-purchase.html
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 02:53:16 AM by W. Tracy Parnell »

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #212 on: October 03, 2019, 02:52:27 AM »

Online David Von Pein

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #213 on: October 03, 2019, 03:54:32 AM »
From December 2011....

DVP SAID:

"If the whole paper trail for the revolver was completely phony, why in the world did the plotters want to have Oswald paying for the gun via COD? Why not just fake it to make it look like Oswald had paid for the entire purchase price when he ordered it, just like the Patsy Framers supposedly did with LHO's Carcano purchase? The mysterious plotters didn't have Oswald paying COD for the rifle. Why did they do that with the revolver? The COD angle adds yet another level of needless complexity into such "fakery", because "they" need Oswald to make two payments instead of just one.

Of course, just HOW they managed to place the phony paperwork in the REA and Seaport files is another matter, which is yet another level of the plot that complicates the whole works, just as it does with the Klein's paperwork in Chicago. Because it was the Klein's people who scoured their records all night on Nov. 22-23 for the paper trail of LHO's rifle.

Do the CTers think that Klein's employees, like William Waldman and whoever might have been helping him find the documents, were "in" on the plot too? It's so silly, it's truly beyond ALL belief that such a complicated plot of fakery could have possibly taken place (or that anyone with any common sense could believe that anything of the sort could have occurred in this case).

But instead of just faking the Seaport documents, these overworked plotters decided it might be nice to add more levels of complexity into their fakery, so they had Railway Express act as the package delivery service for Oswald's "bogus" gun purchase. Therefore, STILL MORE paperwork had to needlessly be faked and created from whole cloth in order to meet the conspirators' demands.

I wonder why more conspiracy theorists can't see the built-in craziness of such a "faked paper trail" scheme? But I sure can.

You guys can't possibly really be serious in questioning Oswald's ownership of Revolver V510210, can you? The evidence is a mile deep that Oswald, in his OWN WRITING (which you also dispute is his, naturally) ordered both the revolver and the rifle. This is a FACT beyond dispute (to reasonable people, that is).

In fact, if you were to poll conspiracy theorists off the street who know at least a LITTLE something about the details of the JFK & Tippit murder cases, I'd bet that a vast majority would concede that the revolver and the rifle were Oswald's. (And as I mentioned twice previously, the "Patsy" plot even makes much more sense from the POV that the two guns WERE really Oswald's. The evil patsy framers would then have framed Oswald with HIS OWN WEAPONS.)

And the assertion by some conspiracy theorists that the gun that was wrested from Oswald's hands during the scuffle in the Texas Theater was really not Revolver V510210 is an assertion that's almost too ridiculous to even talk about.

Because if the gun taken from Oswald in the theater wasn't V510210, then we'd have to believe that the Dallas cops (and/or the FBI) had a desire to frame Oswald for a cop-killing he never committed (which is REALLY absurd when thinking about the DPD doing this, since a lot of those guys knew the slain officer personally, and certainly wouldn't want to see Tippit's murderer go free).

And if the gun taken from LHO wasn't the V510210 gun, we'd also have to assume that the cops and Federal agents then engaged in a very swift and efficient sinister plot of faking all of the various records pertaining to Oswald's mail-order purchase for the revolver. The cops must have then somehow convinced at least SOME employees of Seaport Traders to join in their frame-up of Oswald, because the paperwork concerning Oswald's revolver purchase was found in the SEAPORT FILES on November 30th, 1963.

JOSEPH BALL -- "That [Michaelis Exhibit No. 2] was in your records, was it, as of November 30, 1963?"

HEINZ MICHAELIS -- "Yes, it was."

Did the FBI send an agent to Seaport to "pose" as a Seaport employee so that this covert agent could then "plant" the "Hidell" invoice in the Seaport files?

It's only when you get to Internet forums like this one do you find the incredibly silly theories being tossed around -- such as Oswald NOT shooting Tippit, Oswald NOT shooting JFK, Oswald NOT purchasing the revolver, Oswald NOT purchasing the rifle, [etc.]."


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Original discussion:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/18411-where-is-the-checkmo-for-oswalds-10/page/9/?tab=comments#comment-239764
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 03:57:33 AM by David Von Pein »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #214 on: October 03, 2019, 04:58:12 AM »
The "D.F. Drittal" "witness" was written in OSWALD'S writing (per various handwriting analysts). So "Drittal" doesn't exist. It's a made-up person created by Lee Oswald.
OK or the creation of AJ Hidell...I mean look at it--The coupon order was written with what looks like a crayon. Given time, I could scribble that mess.
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Why would there be any "Post Office record" of that $10 cash payment that Oswald mailed directly to Seaport Traders?
Good question. Supposedly, Oswald was a believer in money orders. Why didn't Hidell/Oswald just send $30 for the pistol and be done with it? Why would a Hidell/Oswald individual then allegedly buy the money order to order the rifle [which was cheaper than the revolver if we can believe this to be any quality of a rifle]? I mean just stuff $22 in the order envelope and be done with it.
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the Klein's people who scoured their records all night on Nov. 22-23 for the paper trail of LHO's rifle.
So they say ::)
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You guys can't possibly really be serious in questioning Oswald's ownership of Revolver V510210, can you?
So they say.. but the alleged owner was killed and that ended the questions?
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Because if the gun taken from Oswald in the theater wasn't V510210, then we'd have to believe that the Dallas cops (and/or the FBI) had a desire to frame Oswald for a cop-killing he never committed (which is REALLY absurd when thinking about the DPD doing this, since a lot of those guys knew the slain officer personally, and certainly wouldn't want to see Tippit's murderer go free).
David..have you ever checked into that beyond the hype and the REPORT? J D Tippit was an 11 year patrolman with barely a grade school education. Not once in those 11 years was he ever promoted. Cops with less tenure were getting promotions to at least corporal. He was not popular in the department...for instance there was another cop on the force named Tippit [also well known by Jack Ruby] and much more popular with the department--anyway when the squad members found out that it was not that Tippit that was shot there was a sense of relief with many officers. I've heard this before but it is found in this book called Into the Nightmare [I believe] It all doesn't matter. Tippit was put in the ground the same day that Kennedy was...the same day that Oswald was and hailed as a hero even though he really did nothing heroic.
"we'd have to believe that the Dallas cops...  had a desire to frame Oswald for a cop-killing he never committed" The DPD was 1. Embarrassed... but 2. Didn't care all that much about Kennedy anyway...mainly 3. Obeyed orders or else.

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #214 on: October 03, 2019, 04:58:12 AM »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #215 on: October 03, 2019, 05:45:47 AM »
From December 2011....

DVP SAID:

"If the whole paper trail for the revolver was completely phony, why in the world did the plotters want to have Oswald paying for the gun via COD? Why not just fake it to make it look like Oswald had paid for the entire purchase price when he ordered it, just like the Patsy Framers supposedly did with LHO's Carcano purchase? The mysterious plotters didn't have Oswald paying COD for the rifle. Why did they do that with the revolver? The COD angle adds yet another level of needless complexity into such "fakery", because "they" need Oswald to make two payments instead of just one.

Of course, just HOW they managed to place the phony paperwork in the REA and Seaport files is another matter, which is yet another level of the plot that complicates the whole works, just as it does with the Klein's paperwork in Chicago. Because it was the Klein's people who scoured their records all night on Nov. 22-23 for the paper trail of LHO's rifle.

Do the CTers think that Klein's employees, like William Waldman and whoever might have been helping him find the documents, were "in" on the plot too? It's so silly, it's truly beyond ALL belief that such a complicated plot of fakery could have possibly taken place (or that anyone with any common sense could believe that anything of the sort could have occurred in this case).

But instead of just faking the Seaport documents, these overworked plotters decided it might be nice to add more levels of complexity into their fakery, so they had Railway Express act as the package delivery service for Oswald's "bogus" gun purchase. Therefore, STILL MORE paperwork had to needlessly be faked and created from whole cloth in order to meet the conspirators' demands.

I wonder why more conspiracy theorists can't see the built-in craziness of such a "faked paper trail" scheme? But I sure can.

You guys can't possibly really be serious in questioning Oswald's ownership of Revolver V510210, can you? The evidence is a mile deep that Oswald, in his OWN WRITING (which you also dispute is his, naturally) ordered both the revolver and the rifle. This is a FACT beyond dispute (to reasonable people, that is).

In fact, if you were to poll conspiracy theorists off the street who know at least a LITTLE something about the details of the JFK & Tippit murder cases, I'd bet that a vast majority would concede that the revolver and the rifle were Oswald's. (And as I mentioned twice previously, the "Patsy" plot even makes much more sense from the POV that the two guns WERE really Oswald's. The evil patsy framers would then have framed Oswald with HIS OWN WEAPONS.)

And the assertion by some conspiracy theorists that the gun that was wrested from Oswald's hands during the scuffle in the Texas Theater was really not Revolver V510210 is an assertion that's almost too ridiculous to even talk about.

Because if the gun taken from Oswald in the theater wasn't V510210, then we'd have to believe that the Dallas cops (and/or the FBI) had a desire to frame Oswald for a cop-killing he never committed (which is REALLY absurd when thinking about the DPD doing this, since a lot of those guys knew the slain officer personally, and certainly wouldn't want to see Tippit's murderer go free).

And if the gun taken from LHO wasn't the V510210 gun, we'd also have to assume that the cops and Federal agents then engaged in a very swift and efficient sinister plot of faking all of the various records pertaining to Oswald's mail-order purchase for the revolver. The cops must have then somehow convinced at least SOME employees of Seaport Traders to join in their frame-up of Oswald, because the paperwork concerning Oswald's revolver purchase was found in the SEAPORT FILES on November 30th, 1963.

JOSEPH BALL -- "That [Michaelis Exhibit No. 2] was in your records, was it, as of November 30, 1963?"

HEINZ MICHAELIS -- "Yes, it was."

Did the FBI send an agent to Seaport to "pose" as a Seaport employee so that this covert agent could then "plant" the "Hidell" invoice in the Seaport files?

It's only when you get to Internet forums like this one do you find the incredibly silly theories being tossed around -- such as Oswald NOT shooting Tippit, Oswald NOT shooting JFK, Oswald NOT purchasing the revolver, Oswald NOT purchasing the rifle, [etc.]."


---------

Original discussion:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/18411-where-is-the-checkmo-for-oswalds-10/page/9/?tab=comments#comment-239764

To me the most incriminating evidence is that Conspirators would obviously use Oswald's actual name, the only person who would order weapons with an alias would by definition have to be Oswald.

And just to add another level of complexity we have Oswald's money order which was found in the National Archives and has a solid chain of custody.



JohnM

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #216 on: October 03, 2019, 06:03:04 AM »
I know I have changed the thread around to LHO ordered the guns but I think we have about exhausted the rifle stuff and all we really have that he ever possessed these weapons is......Marina said so.

Not even Marina. She didn’t know what specific weapons he had.

And if we’re so satisfied with “Marina said so”, well Marina said that she took the backyard photos “towards the end of February, possibly the beginning of March”.

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #216 on: October 03, 2019, 06:03:04 AM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #217 on: October 03, 2019, 06:04:57 AM »
The "D.F. Drittal" "witness" was written in OSWALD'S writing (per various handwriting analysts). So "Drittal" doesn't exist. It's a made-up person created by Lee Oswald.

Handwriting “analysis”. LOL.

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #217 on: October 03, 2019, 06:04:57 AM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #218 on: October 03, 2019, 06:08:34 AM »
Please explain why you think the post office would have even SEEN that $10 CASH payment sent by LHO. It was inside an envelope all the way from Dallas to Los Angeles.

So these two orders that he supposedly sent on the same day (that he was at work all day). . . he used cash for one but bothered to purchase a money order for the other?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 06:18:50 AM by John Iacoletti »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #219 on: October 03, 2019, 06:15:06 AM »
"If the whole paper trail for the revolver was completely phony, why in the world did the plotters want to have Oswald paying for the gun via COD?

When the evidence doesn’t support the narrative, why do nutters always fall back on “why would plotters do that” arguments?

There’s either evidence of this alleged COD payment or there is not.

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #219 on: October 03, 2019, 06:15:06 AM »

 

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