Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Author Topic: The Real Gloria Calvery  (Read 8048 times)

Offline Barry Pollard

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 426
Re: The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2018, 09:44:45 PM »
...Finding the real Calvery is imperative because it proves the timing of Frazier's statement that he turned and asked "Sarah" what the woman running up to the steps had said? ...

Schoolboy error#602
In the 2013 interview, the one you mention most often, Frazier says nothing to Sarah, he allegedly just turned to her "and they had nothing to say".
So does this Calvery moment in Darnell capture the very scene where BWF said absolutely nothing to say anyone about the shooting of which he was up to this point unaware of?
Yes, very probably yes. "Stood still", "said nothing" then probably as he eaarlier confessed to Mack "went down to the basement [to eat his sandwiches].

Compared to the the rest of what this observation of Calvery does to Darnell and Couch, what Frazier was thinking at this exact moment is of no real interest or meaning.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2018, 09:44:45 PM »


Online Brian Doyle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1334
The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2018, 10:51:19 PM »
Schoolboy error#602
In the 2013 interview, the one you mention most often, Frazier says nothing to Sarah, he allegedly just turned to her "and they had nothing to say".
So does this Calvery moment in Darnell capture the very scene where BWF said absolutely nothing to say anyone about the shooting of which he was up to this point unaware of?
Yes, very probably yes. "Stood still", "said nothing" then probably as he eaarlier confessed to Mack "went down to the basement [to eat his sandwiches].

Compared to the the rest of what this observation of Calvery does to Darnell and Couch, what Frazier was thinking at this exact moment is of no real interest or meaning.

Ignorance of the evidence dear boy...In one of his testimonies Frazier detailed that Calvery ran up shouting in a low voice that was too low to hear...Frazier said "I turned to Sarah to ask her what Calvery had said and Sarah said 'I think she said the president has been shot' "...(This is the point that Frazier describes in the 2013 interview as "We then stared at each other for a long time in shock")

In the 6th Floor Museum interview below Frazier confirms this spoken interchange with Sarah and also confirms that Lovelady & Shelley spoke to Calvery at the base of the steps before heading up the Elm St extension...Listen to this interview...Frazier went down the steps AFTER he turned and spoke to Sarah...At 34:00 -


(Try to articulate better Barry...Your posts are incoherent)
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 11:08:18 PM by Brian Doyle »

Offline Barry Pollard

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 426
Re: The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2018, 02:18:47 AM »
That's an appearance, what Mack gave him was an interview, you know the difference? I'll tell you.
Fagin has gone over everything with him beforehand, so there will be no suprises, like he does with all his celebrities,
whereas Frazier at times clearly had no idea what Gary was going to ask him next.

Anyway, why do you keep saying Frazier "said Calvery"? He never does, anywhere. He never knew her, period.
Also I really do hope that one little misplaced word, in a run on sentence, doesn't blow your mind but thank you for pointing it out.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2018, 02:18:47 AM »


Online Brian Doyle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1334
The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2018, 06:47:52 PM »
You don't honestly think you are getting away with that do you Barry? I have already repeated several times that Calvery was still hysterical and was still telling people the president had been shot when she entered the lobby where Molina encountered her and mentioned her by name...Back-tracing of Molina's encounter led researchers to identify Calvery as the hysterical woman who was telling people Kennedy had been shot...

You're nitpicking Barry in order to avoid answering the point...In his Warren Commission testimony Lovelady made clear that the woman was Calvery:

Mr. LOVELADY - I thought it was firecrackers or somebody celebrating the arrival of the President. It didn't occur to me at first what had happened until this Gloria came running up to us and told us the President had been shot.
Mr. BALL - Who was this girl?
Mr. LOVELADY - Gloria Calvary.
Mr. BALL - Gloria Calvary?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Where does she work?
Mr. LOVELADY - Southwestern Publishing Co.
Mr. BALL - Where was the direction of the sound?
Mr. LOVELADY - Right there around that concrete little deal on that knoll.
Mr. BALL - That's where it sounded to you?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, sir; to my right. I was standing as you are going down the steps, I was standing on the right, sounded like it was in that area.
Mr. BALL - From the underpass area?
Mr. LOVELADY - Between the underpass and the building right on that knoll.
Mr. BALL - I have got a picture here, Commission Exhibit 369. Are you on that picture?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Take a pen or pencil and mark an arrow where you are.
Mr. LOVELADY - Where I thought the shots are?
Mr. BALL - No; you in the picture.
Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, here (indicating).
Mr. BALL - Draw an arrow down to that; do it in the dark. You got an arrow in the dark and one in the white pointing toward you. Where were you when the picture was taken?
Mr. LOVELADY - Right there at the entrance of the building standing on the the step, would be here (indicating).
Mr. BALL - You were standing on which step?
Mr. LOVELADY - It would be your top level.
Mr. BALL - The top step you were standing there?
Mr. LOVELADY - Right.
Mr. BALL - Now, when Gloria came up you were standing near Mr. Shelley?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yeah.
Mr. BALL - When Gloria came up and said the President had been shot, Gloria Calvary, what did you do?
Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I asked who told her. She said he had been shot so we asked her was she for certain or just had she seen the shot hit him or--she said yes, she had been right close to it to see and she had saw the blood and knew he had been hit but didn't know how serious it was and so the crowd had started towards the railroad tracks back, you know, behind our building there and we run towards that little, old island and kind of down there in that little street. We went as far as the first tracks and everybody was hollering and crying and policemen started running out that way and we said we better get back into the building, so we went back into the west entrance on the back dock had that low ramp and went into the back dock back inside the building.
Mr. BALL - First of all, let's get you to tell us whom you left the steps with.
Mr. LOVELADY - Mr. Shelley.
Mr. BALL - Shelley and you went down how far?
Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I would say a good 75, between 75 to 100 yards to the first tracks. See how those tracks goes---
Mr. BALL - You went down the dead end on Elm?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - And down to the first tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.

I've proven my case...Your pretend, gratuitous devil's advocacy is growing tiresome...

Offline Barry Pollard

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 426
Re: The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2018, 12:24:28 AM »
Ignorance of the evidence dear boy...In one of his testimonies Frazier detailed that Calvery ran up shouting in a low voice that was too low to hear...Frazier said "I turned to Sarah to ask her what Calvery had said and Sarah said 'I think she said the president has been shot' "...(This is the point that Frazier describes in the 2013 interview as "We then stared at each other for a long time in shock")

Perhaps it's of little import to you but for you to keep claiming that Frazier called Calvery by name and especially in a sentence atributed to him as above, seems more than a little out of order to me. I mean it's bad enough that we have to deal with him changing things.
All that I was suggesting before(if that's what your kneejerk reaction is referring to above), was that Frazier may have picked up the story from others, not that there's any doubt in my mind that the Calvery event actually happened.
Also never forget, after alledgedly hearing shots during a presidential motorcade, when he learns that someone has actually been shot, he didn't believe it and in the telling he expressed dumbfoundness.  "What did she say?", "Did she say what I thought she said?" but that's a bit late isn't it?  Where's his GD reaction to the shots?  "Did that sound like shooting Sarah?" "Is someone shooting at the Pres' Sarah?".  "OMG Sarah!".  No, nothing.  His contribution only adds to the perfectly reasonable notion that no one near the TSBD realised those sounds(if they even heard them at all) were shots.
 
Why don't you like the idea of Darnell reacting to Baker and just how long after the shooting do you think both both films start?

PS. Someone needs to note down what he said in each interview before we all get sick of hearing him.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2018, 12:24:28 AM »


Online Brian Doyle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1334
The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2018, 01:53:28 AM »
You know what Frazier said and you know where Frazier saw it...I'm not going to respond to your deliberately dishonest entries Barry...You are asking us to believe that after all Frazier described that he didn't see Calvery right in front of him and that wasn't the person he was describing and that he got it later from somebody else...You and I both know you don't really believe that so there's no point in responding...
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 01:55:36 AM by Brian Doyle »

Offline Barry Pollard

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 426
Re: The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2018, 02:06:34 AM »
Not one mention in this thread of the timing this scenario needs and how it would all work like you need it to Brian, why is that?
How long after Z313 does Darnell and Couch start?  That might be a good starting point.
You just said in Duncan's thread that BS and BL are about 3s from their meeting with Sarah, I say it looks more like 6s.
15s for her run?  You might want to start adding this all up.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2018, 02:06:34 AM »


Online Brian Doyle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1334
The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2018, 05:32:37 PM »
This is why I don't take you seriously and why I am considering not responding to you Barry...What deniers or naysayers do is always take the offensive by asking questions instead of acknowledging already-proven evidence...You can scan the Prayer Man threads and see that the generally accepted time of 25-30 seconds after 313 has been posted repeatedly yet you are pretending it needs to be established for the first time...This tells me you aren't paying serious attention to the topic and are kind of "riding" me and the threads looking for gratuitous denial opportunities...

Whatever the timing for Lovelady & Shelley's departure there is no doubt that Calvery is at the steps in Couch/Darnell - so that proves the timing, and would be what any serious analyst used to calibrate the goings-on...Your tone of instructive guidance has nothing behind it and you still haven't answered for the main evidence short of your petty snipes... 

Even if Lovelady & Shelley are 6 seconds away from the steps, if Calvery & Thornton bolted in panic from their position in Zapruder it would still only take them 15 seconds to cover the 120 feet or so from their spot...Look at Running Woman for an example...
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 05:42:34 PM by Brian Doyle »

Offline Larry Trotter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 414
Re: The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2018, 05:54:25 AM »
The Real GloriaCalvery?

As a conclusion, it appears to be viewing the motorcade, as seen from the rear on ZupruderFilm, right to left: GloriaCalveryImage; CarolReedImage; KaranHicksImage; KarenWestbrookImage; And, barely visible to the left of KWI, is BlueCoatLadyImage, who can also be seen from the front on un-cropped Altgens6Photograph. And, what appears on ZFilm to be the left shoulder/leg of JohnTemplinImage is just to the right of GCI.


https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?album=2&pos=47
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 01:51:14 AM by Larry Trotter »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2018, 05:54:25 AM »


Offline Mark A. Oblazney

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 89
Re: The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2018, 05:16:08 PM »
The Real GloriaCalvery?

As a conclusion, it appears to be viewing the motorcade, as seen from the rear on ZupruderFilm, right to left: GloriaCalveryImage; CarolReedImage; KaranHicksImage; KarenWestbrookImage; And, barely visible to the left of KWI, is BlueCoatLadyImage, who can also be seen from the front on un-cropped Altgens6Photograph. And, what appears on ZFilm to be the left shoulder/leg of JohnTemplinImage is just to the right of GCI.


https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?album=2&pos=2
It was a dude taking pictures with a camera, either still or movie (movie would be wonderful).  It couldn't be Mr. Oswald, as he was up above them taking pot shots at the president. two out of three ain't bad, even if you're ridin' on dem' amphetamines.  Remember..... focus

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2018, 05:16:08 PM »