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Author Topic: The Real Gloria Calvery  (Read 2091 times)

Online Brian Doyle

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The Real Gloria Calvery
« on: April 01, 2018, 04:37:00 PM »
I spoke to Gloria Calvery's son 2 weeks ago hoping he would help me identify Running Woman in Dunckel as his mother...Much to my chagrin he straightened me out and told me Graves & Larsen's Calvery at the steps is his mother...I tried to talk him out of it by telling him Running Woman in the black skirt fit all the spoken descriptions of Calvery and therefore had to be her...Mr Calvery left me off with the tip that a photographer on the south side of Elm St had taken a photo that had all the people in question in the motorcade spectators in focus...He told me the photographer's name was Butler and that he wasn't allowing his negative to be examined...

I then went back to the Dunckel Clip to figure out where I went wrong...I also went to Google Images where I discovered the Betzner 3 image for the first time...One look at Betzner 3 brought Graves' and Larsen's Calvery in to view and I immediately realized this was Calvery...Mr Calvery also told me his mother told him she was wearing a scarf that day...Larsen's "Tall Woman" in Betzner 3 is wearing a scarf...Mr Calvery had obviously confused "Butler" with "Betzner"...
 
My look in to Calvery was spurred by Stephen Fagin's 6th Floor Museum interview with Karen Westbrook where Westbrook is calling the woman previously labeled "Karan Hicks" (sic) by Roberdeau in Zapruder Calvery...The only problem with that is the 3 women in the Darnell clip on the Knoll after the shots show that the one Westbrook is calling Calvery isn't Calvery...Graves says she is TSBD employee Gloria Jeanne Holt...The jury is still out on that identification but examination of the photographic images of the Plaza show Cabluck caught 2 of the "3 Women" on the Knoll at least 15-20 seconds after the shots...One of the women in Cabluck is Westbrook's Calvery which proves it can't be the real Calvery because the real Calvery was back to the front steps by that time...Prayer Man advocates are ignoring this excluding evidence...

Finding the real Calvery is imperative because it proves the timing of Frazier's statement that he turned and asked "Sarah" what the woman running up to the steps had said? When I went back to Dunckel I immediately realized Darnell had swept his camera across the front of the Depository a few seconds too late to catch Calvery...What Darnell had caught, however, was Peggy Burney following up Calvery in her dash to the front steps...It all fit together nicely now...One look at Zapruder shows Burney standing to the left of Tall Woman...Behavioristically, it makes sense that the woman who was probably with Calvery at the motorcade spectators followed her when she ran to the Depository...Burney also has the white blouse and dark skirt seen on Running Woman... The real Calvery turns out to be the woman in the dark scarf at the base of the left steps in Darnell...Graves and Larsen were correct so I immediately contacted Graves on Facebook and apologized...But it really made little difference to what I discovered years ago...It just switched the places of two persons in an overall correct scenario I developed (Which included organizing and developing the discoveries of some other researchers)...

I thank Duncan for re-instating my membership...Bart Kamp is over on the Education Forum arguing for my censorship and total obliteration from the assassination research community and is using my banning from Duncan's forum to argue I am some kind of nut who doesn't deserve to be a member of any assassination research boards...Kamp, however, (along with the DPF and EF boards) failed to mention I recently got his Lancer award revoked by Debra Conway who agreed with me on my discovery and debunking of Kamp and his research group...
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 04:56:50 PM by Brian Doyle »

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The Real Gloria Calvery
« on: April 01, 2018, 04:37:00 PM »


Online Larry Trotter

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Re: The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2018, 05:55:28 AM »
Well Brian, after recent study of research, I have to conclude that I agree with the conclusion that Ms Calvery, along with Ms Reed, Ms Hicks, and Ms Westbrook, are standing along the north side of Elm St, a short distance east/northeast of the 3 ladies who I believe have been identified by the research as Ms Jacob, Ms Holt, and Ms Simmons-Nelson.

And, due to the stated identification(s), I tend to believe/conclude that a woman running, aka RunningWoman, could possibly be Ms Reed, as it appears that Ms Calvery and Ms Hicks are already at the steps as pictured.


Online Brian Doyle

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Re: The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2018, 06:14:30 PM »
Larry:   You need to read closer..."Running Woman" was Peggy Burney...You can see her white blouse and black skirt...Go to Zapruder and you'll see Peggy is standing to the immediate left of "Tall Woman" (Calvery)...It makes sense that she followed Calvery to the steps since they were probably together...

Offline Duncan MacRae

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Re: The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2018, 06:40:21 PM »
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Larry:   You need to read closer..."Running Woman" was Peggy Burney...You can see her white blouse and black skirt...Go to Zapruder and you'll see Peggy is standing to the immediate left of "Tall Woman" (Calvery)...It makes sense that she followed Calvery to the steps since they were probably together...



Online Larry Trotter

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Re: The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2018, 08:33:29 PM »
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     Larry:   You need to read closer..."Running Woman" was Peggy Burney...You can see her white blouse and black skirt...Go to Zapruder and you'll see Peggy is standing to the immediate left of "Tall Woman" (Calvery)...It makes sense that she followed Calvery to the steps since they were probably together...

Actually Brian, I agree with your conclusion about "RunningWoman", but I have concluded her to actually be Carol Reed. I base said identification on testimony indicating that Ms Westbrook, Ms Hicks, Ms Reed, and Ms Calvery were standing together on Elm St during the shooting occurance of JFKSr and JBCJr. If I am wrong, so be it. However, if so, that error indicates another mis-identification of Ms GloriaCalvery.

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Re: The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2018, 08:33:29 PM »


Online Brian Doyle

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Re: The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2018, 09:19:35 PM »
Oh thanks...I never considered that because I thought Roberdeau had positively identified Burney as being the red haired (or scarfed) woman in the white blouse and black skirt...I see what you mean now...Hmm, that would be another shocking twist if it turned out to be true...

There's issues with Westbrook...She could be getting weird with age or she could have been gotten to and is doing disinformation...In her 6th Floor Museum interview she admitted she was not a pro-Kennedy type at the time and had fallen for the politics of the "Wanted Poster" people in Dallas at the time...Something similar is happening in today's America with the Trump supporters...

One thing we know is Westbrook's Calvery is not the real Calvery...Her son 100% positively excluded the blonde woman Westbrook identified as Calvery from being his mother...And now Graves is saying the woman in the blue scarf Westbrook is saying is herself might not even be Westbrook...No offense to Karen Westbrook but that makes her an unreliable witness...I called Karen Westbrook a few weeks ago and left a voice-mail...

If Blue Scarf Woman isn't Westbrook then who is? In any case, whether White Blouse Black Skirt Woman is Burney or not, like you say, our interpretation still stands and she followed Calvery to the steps because she was standing right beside her...Graves & Larsen are correct and the real Calvery is already at the steps in Couch/Darnell...

If you read Stancak's latest offering on the Education Forum, he is avoiding how this correct locating of Calvery relates to Frazier's placement of Sarah Stanton...Stancak is flagrantly ignoring how this locating of Calvery means she had just finished her shouting run saying the president had been shot...That means Frazier had just heard Calvery shouting on the way to the steps and was in the process of asking Sarah what Calvery had said...How dishonest Stancak is over this obvious intepretation...He lies and says there are no firm time indicators as to where Sarah is while ignoring a very precise time reference in Calvery's location...Sandy Larsen is laying back because, even though I proved he was right, he doesn't want to admit this necessary follow-through here of how Calvery relates to Frazier...The main reason I didn't look in to this a year ago is because I didn't take it seriously because Larsen believes Prayer Man is Oswald...

Look at how James Gordon guards provable non-truths and pretends it is being done for purposes of moderation...The same with that bully moron Lauren Johnson...     

If you are wrong it does not necessitate Tall Woman not being Calvery...Gloria Calvery's son told me Tall Woman is his mother...
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 09:21:27 PM by Brian Doyle »

Online Larry Trotter

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Re: The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2018, 01:26:06 AM »
For clarification, as I/we discuss identifications regarding the motorcade viewers, it is solely to ascertain correct information, and is not any effort to indicate participation in the JFKSr murder, and critical wounding of JBCJr.And, if any mis-identification regarding Ms GloriaCalvery by another motorcade viewer has occurred after 54 years, I tend to believe it to be a mistake made, but no intent to mis-lead.

As seen from behind on Zfilm frame 158/160, I believe, right to left, Is Ms GloriaCalvery, Ms CarolReed, Ms KaranHicks, and Ms KarenWestbrook on the north side of Elm St thoroughfare, with others in the crowd on Ms Calvery's right, as well as Ms Westbrook's left.

Online Brian Doyle

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The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2018, 03:30:17 AM »
Roberdeau had it as (right to left) Gloria Calvery; Peggy Burney; Betty Thornton; Jane Berry...

Your interpretation is interesting because your Karen Westbrook is also wearing a scarf, as Karen Westbrook indicated she was in her 6th Floor Museum Interview...
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 03:58:08 AM by Brian Doyle »

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The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2018, 03:30:17 AM »


Online Larry Trotter

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Re: The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2018, 04:18:07 AM »
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Roberdeau had it as (right to left) Gloria Calvery; Peggy Burney; Betty Thornton; Jane Berry...


 Your interpretation is interesting because your Karen Westbrook is also wearing a scarf, as Karen Westbrook indicated she was in her 6th Floor Museum Interview...
I believe it's possible that since both ladies were somewhat similarly attired, Ms Westbrook mistook Ms Sharon Simmons-Nelson for herself.

Online Brian Doyle

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The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2018, 06:02:16 PM »
If you want to see a good example of the stupidity of James Gordon's moderation as well as a good example of Andrej Stancak's quackery go to the "Mrs Stanton Mrs Sanders Where Are You?" thread on the Education Forum...

The Education Forum sells itself as a credible assassination discussion forum that has excluded myself as not being worthy of membership and participation...While pretending a high standard under the pompous ignoramus James Gordon, along with his dingbat assistant Kathy Beckett, the Education Forum has allowed Stancak to fabricate a non-existent individual on the portal landing...

If you look at Stancak's overhead graphic he has produced the image of a woman who is standing tucked behind Frazier and Shelley...If you read page 1 of that thread you will see Stancak has justified the existence of this woman by means of a tiny face seen between Lovelady and Shelley's faces in Altgens 6...I give credit to Stancak for finding this face because I hadn't noticed it before...But I condemn him for trying to turn it in to another person on the landing in order to protect his faulty claims...

Stancak is claiming the tiny face seen in Altgens between Shelley and Lovelady is a person who is blocked by what he calls Shelley in Darnell...Using this tiny face in Altgens Stancak attempts to say it is proof of an unseen woman in Darnell who is blocked by the blurry figure of Shelley...There's a couple of things that are wrong with this... First off, Shelley is not seen on the landing in Darnell... The Dunckel Clip proves that Shelley and Lovelady are well on their way up the Elm St extension by the time of Darnell...So right off the bat Stancak is making a credulous claim that the evidence disproves...The other Education Forum members are letting Stancak get away with saying the tiny face in Altgens proves there is a concealed woman in Darnell hidden behind the man next to Frazier...

It is obvious to credible researchers that the only reason Stancak is doing this is because he is desperate to produce another candidate for Sarah Stanton in order to escape the inevitable conclusion that Prayer Man is Stanton...In Stancak's mind the tiny face must be another woman and that other woman must be Stanton...And the Education Forum sits back and stays quiet... 

The real interpretation for all this is - the tiny face seen in Altgens is Pauline Sanders who is seen in one Darnell frame leaning against the glass...Since Lovelady is shorter than Frazier what is really happening is Sanders manages to poke her head above Lovelady and Shelley in Altgens and is just able to be seen...There is only one woman back there and it is Sanders...She is seen in both Altgens and Darnell and there is no other imaginary second woman...Andrej gets out his magic graphics and converts misinterpreted photographic evidence into cartoon images that are then referred to as given...Stancak is a fraud who hides behind corrupted moderators instead of coming out and honestly answering this...Good counter arguments are never good enough and bully Gordon forces us to wait for Stancak's next round of 'improved graphics' that only repeat the same fatal offenses that Stancak still hasn't answered for thanks to Gordon's censorship...The Prayer Man issue has stretched into years of BS while the offenders ignore that Davidson proved this over 2 years ago...

There is no second woman in the spot Stancak shows in his overhead graphic...So, by Stancak's own description, the only candidate for Stanton is Prayer Man since Stancak himself calls Tiny Woman Sanders...


« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 07:24:39 PM by Brian Doyle »

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The Real Gloria Calvery
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2018, 06:02:16 PM »