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Author Topic: Prayer Woman  (Read 337203 times)

Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4400 on: May 19, 2019, 09:32:51 PM »
I am not sure I see what you see Thomas. How does WeigmanFilm start/entrance portal filming compare with Altgens6Photo?


Larry,

You can probably find what's been written about it on the EF.

Rhetorical question: Do you think Darnell's fast panning back to the right and then back to the left and then jumping out of the car might have been in response to his hearing the shots?

-- MWT  :)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 09:34:05 PM by Thomas Graves »

Offline Chris Davidson

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4401 on: May 19, 2019, 09:35:25 PM »
Chris:

An artificial politeness is being enforced on the Censorship Forum because it is being used as a crutch by researchers who don't want to admit their evidence is wrong...Chris Davidson confronted Stancak in an overly polite way that allowed Stancak to tip toe around his point while playing dumb and pretending he doesn't understand what Davidson is asking...Academic debate is normally a rough field where total freedom to challenge bad theories needs to be upheld for purposes of scientific clarity...If a person is trying to get away with bad claims his challengers need to be able to challenge them freely where their offense is spelled out clearly in a way that forces honest response for the sake of truthful understanding...

Davidson made his point clear enough to Stancak that he had the exact same proportions as Frazier and that his own head was 8.5 inches in height...Typical of Stancak he avoided any direct answer to this and claimed he was using the "artists' 7 and 1/2 rule" that dictated body proportion ratios...I have noticed before that Stancak takes advantage of English not being his first language to fudge wording and he does that here as well...I think he is doing that here and as far as I can tell he is trying to say his artists' body proportion scale makes Frazier's head 9.6 inches high...Well, this is exactly what I'm talking about and if you are following my entries here Stancak has responded to his false body proportion claims by resolving it by making Frazier's head 9.6 inches tall...

What is the problem with this?...Well it should be obvious and Chris Davidson doesn't nail Stancak on it like he should (as should the other forum's members and moderation)...The problem is Frazier's head isn't 9.6 inches high...Frazier's head is probably 8.5 inches high just like Davidson's...So the point Stancak hasn't answered is why he has the 5 foot 4 mark in the portal drawn to Frazier's mouth when correct anatomical science should have it at the chin where it belongs?...The question Davidson fails to put to Stancak directly like it properly should be is we could ask Frazier to measure his head height and we would see it is almost certainly 8.5 inches just like Davidson's...My correct evidence is being deliberately ignored and those doing the ignoring are acting like I have been justifiably removed...The reason I was removed was not because I had violated any site rules...The reason I was removed was because, just like here, I am holding the Prayer Man supporters accountable to their false claims and showing where they are wrong...Some less that truthful persons lied and said my correct information was intolerable behavior...Once again, every time Stancak makes an evidence thrust to try and prove Prayer Man is Oswald he enters provably false data that actually works in my favor...And he ignores the correct evidence with the aid of others...

 What Stancak hasn't answered here is at 6 foot 1/2 inch Frazier's 8.5 inch head would leave the chin level at 5 foot 4...Exactly the measurement that Prayer Man's head comes up to on Frazier...And exactly the height of Sarah Stanton...Typical of Stancak he tries to cloud the issue in a rigamarole of obscure reference but he doesn't answer this basic point...It is obvious that Stancak is desperate to stretch all measurements to make Prayer Man Oswald but as I am pointing out here the real science doesn't allow it and once again comes in in favor of Prayer Man being Stanton...

Stancak is also flagrantly ignoring my showing him that Prayer Man has no sun on his leg in Darnell...Stancak's graphic shows Oswald with his foot on the step and his left leg bent and jutting in to sunlight...However if we go to the Darnell image we see wide-hipped Sarah standing with straight legs and no bent leg in the sun...This is conclusive evidence that Prayer Man is not Oswald with a foot on the step but Stancak ignores it with the help of the preferred members on the Censorship Forum...Stancak desperately needs Prayer Man to have a foot on the step because he knows Prayer Man is too short to be Oswald if standing on the landing...

If you want to understand Stancak in a nut shell realize he has been told the family photo of Sarah does not show what Sarah and her son are standing on...We don't know if they are on level ground and there is a hill slope behind them...Stancak has been informed of this but he continues to use that image as if the heights were confirmed as level...Meanwhile we have confirmation that Prayer Man and Frazier are on the dead level landing platform and their heights can be referenced as accurate...
That's not what I was getting at, in pointing this out to Andrej.
If you start off with the wrong aspect ratio and incorrect leveling to the horizon, the rest of the work in the form of a graphic may not(this doesn't mean the end result is inaccurate) be accurate.

Offline Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #4402 on: May 19, 2019, 09:54:23 PM »
How so?

After all, he claims Stanton was still standing to his left when the shooting started.

-- MWT  :)


He didn't say that...When he said that all I asked is if he remembered where Stanton was standing...After I explained to him Lovelady's location of Sarah against the west wall when the limo passed as well as his own location of Stanton as Prayer Man when Calvery got to the steps he agreed that she could have moved over there...

I also explained to him that Stanton was probably over to his left when she first came out to watch the motorcade and may even have been there the majority of the time before she moved to the Prayer Man spot...Frazier agreed...I told him I would like to be able to show it to him in person on a monitor screen so he understands it...

Offline Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #4403 on: May 19, 2019, 10:04:40 PM »
That's not what I was getting at, in pointing this out to Andrej.
If you start off with the wrong aspect ratio and incorrect leveling to the horizon, the rest of the work in the form of a graphic may not(this doesn't mean the end result is inaccurate) be accurate.


You're not answering the point...

Stancak has misrepresented the height lines in his latest graphic according to what I pointed-out in my other posts...

6 foot 1/2 inch minus 8.5 inches puts the 5 foot 4 mark at the chin and not the mouth where Stancak incorrectly placed it with no one pointing it out...

Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4404 on: May 19, 2019, 10:06:54 PM »

He didn't say that...When he said that all I asked is if he remembered where Stanton was standing...After I explained to him Lovelady's location of Sarah against the west wall when the limo passed as well as his own location of Stanton as Prayer Man when Calvery got to the steps he agreed that she could have moved over there...

I also explained to him that Stanton was probably over to his left when she first came out to watch the motorcade and may even have been there the majority of the time before she moved to the Prayer Man spot...Frazier agreed...I told him I would like to be able to show it to him in person on a monitor screen so he understands it...

He suggested that Stanton may have moved to the Prayer Person position immediately after the shots rang out (i.e., during the few seconds that some people on the steps were changing their positions). He doesn't seem to suggest that she might have been in that position before the shots rang out.

Here, Brian, read again what you wrote above:

[Frazier said,] "People should understand people were moving around on the steps because of the chaos caused by the shooting so it is very possible Sarah moved from my left to my right"

-- MWT  :)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 10:38:49 PM by Thomas Graves »

Offline Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #4405 on: May 19, 2019, 10:50:50 PM »

Stop playing games Thomas...He doesn't know the evidence...

We know he thinks Stanton was to his left but before I spoke to him we have an example of him going to his flowing memory and placing Stanton in the Prayer Man spot in relation to Calvery...

 

Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4406 on: May 19, 2019, 11:12:52 PM »
Frazier doesn't know the evidence.

We know he thinks Stanton was to his left but before I spoke to him we have an example of him going to his flowing memory and placing Stanton in the Prayer Man spot in relation to Calvery...

Do you want Frazier to see the "edvidence" as you interpret it for him, hoping that he'll change his memories and recollections of the event?

Question: Do you believe Altgens-6 captured the immediate aftermath of the first shot?

If so, do you believe Altgens-6 can be correlated with a certain frame or frames of the Weigman film?

If so, in Weigman was Prayer Person already standing in his or her position when Altgens-6 was taken?

If so, then doesn't that suggest that Prayer Person was already standing in his or her classic Sean Murphy/ Brian Doyle position before the shots started ringing out, and therefore, by definition, couldn't have moved to that Weigman and Darnell-recorded position "during the chaos after the shooting".

D'oh

-- MWT  :)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 11:18:11 PM by Thomas Graves »

Offline Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #4407 on: May 19, 2019, 11:35:37 PM »
Do you want Frazier to see the "edvidence" as you interpret it for him, hoping that he'll change his memories and recollections of the event?

Question: Do you believe Altgens-6 captured the immediate aftermath of the first shot?

If so, do you believe Altgens-6 can be correlated with a certain frame or frames of the Weigman film?

If so, in Weigman was Prayer Person already standing in his or her position when Altgens-6 was taken?

If so, then doesn't that suggest that Prayer Person was already standing in his or her classic Sean Murphy/ Brian Doyle position before the shots started ringing out, and therefore, by definition, couldn't have moved to that Weigman and Darnell-recorded position "during the chaos after the shooting".



You're forgetting that we've already proven Prayer Man is Stanton...I have already told you Frazier is the one who placed Stanton in the Prayer Man position when he described where Sarah was in relation to Calvery arriving at the steps...All I am doing is trying to help Frazier connect his own correct memory to the film evidence he hasn't seen or had explained to him visually...So since Darnell shows what Frazier described in his 6th Floor Museum interview I wouldn't be changing anything...

I read somewhere that Altgens is roughly equal to Wiegman in Z frame timing...Something close to Z-Frame 257...

We know Sarah is Prayer Man in Wiegman because Davidson brought out a female face on Prayer Man in Wiegman...

It can be said that a person who tries to make too much out of a minor issue is showing the overall weakness of their position...


Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4408 on: May 20, 2019, 01:34:35 AM »
The problem for you with that "take" is that Prayer Person is visible in situ in Weigman, and Weigman started filming the steps just before the first shot rang out.

-- MWT  :)

Minor correction Tommy.
Wiegman reacted sometime after the first shot, close to but also after Altgens' own first reaction(which is what I believe it is, I mean, Ike taking a picture of the motorcade without Kennedy fully visible would be worthless).  Wiegman is seen on Houston expecting something to happen and ready to react to it(Skaggs) and did not have the limo or QM in his sights yet those few seconds later, so his reaction was more likely IMHO based on what he heard, a loud crack perhaps.
The filming of the entrance, pure coincidence as he got ready to jump out, again IMO.

Folks moving around the steps inbetween shots, in reaction to them?  Not impossible of course but the only evidence of that is from Lovelady and who really knows why he moved exactly?  He was even moving around before it all really began.
So BWF not only heard recognisable gunfire but he notices others next to him react to it and then he gets confirmation some twenty seconds later that JFK was actually hit he's genuinly stumped?  Just how big is this hole he's digging for himself going to get?

First question to him about shoes should be regarding whether he knew how to tie them.  It's not looking too good.

Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4409 on: May 20, 2019, 01:53:33 AM »
Do you want Frazier to see the "edvidence" as you interpret it for him, hoping that he'll change his memories and recollections of the event?

Question: Do you believe Altgens-6 captured the immediate aftermath of the first shot?

If so, do you believe Altgens-6 can be correlated with a certain frame or frames of the Weigman film?

If so, in Weigman was Prayer Person already standing in his or her position when Altgens-6 was taken?

If so, then doesn't that suggest that Prayer Person was already standing in his or her classic Sean Murphy/ Brian Doyle position before the shots started ringing out, and therefore, by definition, couldn't have moved to that Weigman and Darnell-recorded position "during the chaos after the shooting".

D'oh

-- MWT  :)

There is a faint hint of something behind Lovelady in the Hugher film.  Something or someone, a brief, very small something(gif reposted by Alan Ford in this thread).
No evidence at all of any member of the public reacting to the first shot in a meaningful way other than those there on official business, either recording or protecting the President and them we can count on one hand, same goes for the second round.  Show me one bystander who reacted before the last shot, anyone?  Look at the Wiegman frames in our gallery, it's a fantasy and all in these eyewitness' head, nothing in the evidence.  And they call us the kooks/nuts.

 

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