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Author Topic: Prayer Woman  (Read 536286 times)

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1320 on: February 25, 2019, 12:41:52 AM »
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By the same token!

Those who wish to read this-------



--------as being somehow compatible with a 2nd fl lunchroom incident with Baker need to take careful note of the words:

"returned to 1st floor to eat lunch."

To eat lunch? Exactly what Agent Bookhout's later report will have Mr Oswald explain.

Except! Here, Mr Oswald's claim actually makes perfect sense, because
-------------it clearly relates to the period before the motorcade ("Then went outside to watch P. Parade")
-------------it makes no reference whatsoever to any encounter with an officer in the 2nd fl lunchroom (an encounter that would have rendered bizarre Mr Oswald's desire to carry on as though nothing unusual were going on and just press on with his lunch).

Agent Bookhout's solo-written report tries to make a very bad liar out of Mr Oswald; Agent Hosty's notes make a very good liar out of Agent Bookhout.

Justice! Thumb1:

Alan....Why are you presenting your ideas here on this thread?    Is your ego so inflated that you can't abandon your theory and admit that you are in error?

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1320 on: February 25, 2019, 12:41:52 AM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1321 on: February 25, 2019, 12:56:52 AM »
Alan....Why are you presenting your ideas here on this thread?    Is your ego so inflated that you can't abandon your theory and admit that you are in error?

Say what? Notes written by Agent Hosty are found that clearly state that Mr Oswald claimed to have gone "outside to watch the P. Parade", and I should abandon the theory that Mr Oswald went outside to watch the Presidential parade?

 ::)

Offline Royell Storing

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1322 on: February 25, 2019, 06:02:23 AM »
Friends, this is what Agent Bookhout's solo-written supplementary report has to say on the score of Mr Oswald's claims:

Oswald stated that on November 22, 1963, at the time of the search of the Texas School Book Depository building by Dallas police officers, he was on the second floor of said building, having just purchased a Coca-cola from the soft-drink machine, at which time a police officer came into the room with pistol drawn and asked him if he worked there. Mr. Truly was present and verified that he was an employee and the police officer thereafter left the room and continued through the building. Oswald stated that he took this Coke down to the first floor and stood around and had lunch in the employees lunch room. He thereafter went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman Bill Shelly, and thereafter went home. He stated that he left work because, in his opinion, based upon remarks of Bill Shelly, he did not believe that there was going to be anymore work that day due to the confusion in the building.

Let's imagine, shall we, that this represents an accurate account of what Mr Oswald really told Fritz.

So! Mr Oswald is claiming that his reaction to being confronted by an officer "with pistol" drawn in the lunchroom was to go down to the 1st floor-----------but not to check out what was happening out front. Oh no! It was to get down to the important business of standing around eating his lunch. Only then ("thereafter"), once his belly was filled, did it occur to him to go outside to check out what had happened.

You may be thinking, What a crazy claim for Oswald to make! He really was a weirdo! But the real question you need to ask yourself is:

If Mr Oswald really did tell these all-but-self-incriminating things to Captain Fritz, how in the name of all that is righteous could Agent Hosty have 'misheard' or 'misremembered' Mr Oswald's words in such a way that he would feel impelled to twist them into: "Then went outside to watch P. Parade"?

As miscomprehensions or misremembrances go, this one is off the charts!

         The part I find extremely puzzling in the Bookhout supplementary report of the 3:15 Oswald Interrogation/Claims, "Mr Truly was present and verified that he was an employee and the Police Officer thereafter LEFT THE ROOM AND CONTINUED THROUGH THE BUILDING". How could Oswald have Any knowledge as to where Officer Baker went after Baker exited the TSBD Lunch Room?

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1322 on: February 25, 2019, 06:02:23 AM »


Offline Mark A. Oblazney

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1323 on: February 25, 2019, 07:32:54 AM »
Is Alan a liar... everyone who posts in this thread seems to be one, except you?
If there was no testimonial record and it was 1989 instead of 2019, you might not seem as unhinged.
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. You are resisting mightily the roadblock of reality aka, common sense.
........

Why even believe what Oswald said, Albert?  I see you're busy getting banned in other places.  Better change them drawers!!!

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1324 on: February 25, 2019, 11:07:31 AM »
Mr. BALL ? We have got a picture taken the day of the parade and it shows the President?s car going by.
Now, take a look at that picture. Can you see your picture any place there?
Mr. FRAZIER ? No, sir; I don?t, because I was back up in this more or less black area here.
Mr. BALL ? I see.
Mr. FRAZIER ? Because Billy, like I say, is two or three steps down in front of me.
Mr. BALL ? Do you recognize this fellow?
Mr. FRAZIER ? That is Billy, that is Billy Lovelady.
Mr. BALL ? Billy?
Mr. FRAZIER ? Right
Mr. BALL ? Let?s take a marker and make an arrow down that way. That mark is Billy Lovelady?
Mr. FRAZIER ? Right.
Mr. BALL ? That is where you told us you were standing a moment ago.
Mr. FRAZIER ? Right.
Mr. BALL ? In front of you to the right over to the wall?
Mr. FRAZIER ? Yes.
?..
Mr. BALL ? That is written in. The arrow marks Billy Lovelady on Commission?s Exhibit No. 369?

Wrong issue, Mr Scully!

Prayer Man cannot be seen in the Altgens photograph, but he can be seen in the Wiegman film standing to Mr Lovelady's rightThumb1:

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1324 on: February 25, 2019, 11:07:31 AM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1325 on: February 25, 2019, 11:47:01 AM »
         The part I find extremely puzzling in the Bookhout supplementary report of the 3:15 Oswald Interrogation/Claims, "Mr Truly was present and verified that he was an employee and the Police Officer thereafter LEFT THE ROOM AND CONTINUED THROUGH THE BUILDING". How could Oswald have Any knowledge as to where Officer Baker went after Baker exited the TSBD Lunch Room?

Yes, Mr Storing, it points up the contrived character of Mr Oswald's alleged claim!  Thumb1: (Compare Mrs Reid's brilliant recollection of a coke----a full coke, mind-----in Mr Oswald's hand.)

Another point of curiosity!:

If one were to read Mr Oswald's supposed words here in isolation----------

"Mr Truly was present and verified that he was an employee and the Police Officer thereafter left the room and continued through the building"

----------one would gain the distinct impression that Mr Truly had been present in the lunchroom with Mr Oswald all along, and that the police officer continued on his search alone.

What makes this so curious is its resonance with what Ms Pauline Sanders told the FBI on the Sunday:



Which would be a very odd error for Ms Sanders to make, given that she was out front and must surely have known that Mr Truly had been out front too and so could hardly have been inside lunching with Mr Oswald!

One assumes-------one must assume--------that the agent misunderstood Ms Sanders.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

However! I once saw it suggested on one of the forums that there was an Oswald-Officer incident in that lunchroom, but that it happened before the shooting and the officer was not Officer Baker. Mr Truly was in the lunchroom with Mr Oswald, who would have assumed this was part of a pre-parade security sweep of buildings in the area.

This is, I think, the only scenario by which Agent Bookhout's solo-written report-----

Oswald stated that on November 22, 1963, at the time of the search of the Texas School Book Depository building by Dallas police officers, he was on the second floor of said building, having just purchased a Coca-cola form the soft-drink machine, at which time a police officer came into the room with pistol drawn and asked him if he worked there. Mr. Truly was present and verified that he was an employee and the police officer thereafter left the room and continued through the building. Oswald stated that he took this Coke down to the first floor and stood around and had lunch in the employee?s lunch room

------could be anything other than a lie. "[A]t the time of the search of the Texas School Book Depository building by Dallas police officers" would mean the supposed pre-parade security sweep of the building. (Mr Oswald being lured into a false sense of security.)

All a little too complicated for my taste though!

A much cleaner solution:

1. Mr Oswald visited the 2nd fl lunchroom before the motorcade (seen there by Ms Arnold & Ms Stanton)
2. He went back down to the 1st floor and stood around eating lunch (noticing Messrs Jarman & Norman coming in by the back door on their way to the back elevator)
3. Hearing the excitement rise outside, he hurried down to the front entrance and stepped outside (seen by the film cameras of Messrs Hughes, Wiegman & Darnell)
4. After the shooting, an officer with pistol drawn (Baker) came charging into the building and asked him if he worked there (=looking for help finding the stairs)
5. Mr Truly came up, identified himself and offered to help the officer
6. Mr Oswald told all this to Captain Fritz
7. DPD told the press all about the incident at the front entrance
8. Once it became clear just how soon after the shooting this incident had happened, it was moved away from the front entrance and near to the back stairway (this happened Friday pm)
9. Mr Oswald's actual claims were rewritten------to ludicrous effect------so as to 'corroborate' the new lunchroom incident.

 Thumb1:


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1326 on: February 25, 2019, 03:23:16 PM »
Yes, Mr Storing, it points up the contrived character of Mr Oswald's alleged claim!  Thumb1: (Compare Mrs Reid's brilliant recollection of a coke----a full coke, mind-----in Mr Oswald's hand.)

Another point of curiosity!:

If one were to read Mr Oswald's supposed words here in isolation----------

"Mr Truly was present and verified that he was an employee and the Police Officer thereafter left the room and continued through the building"

----------one would gain the distinct impression that Mr Truly had been present in the lunchroom with Mr Oswald all along, and that the police officer continued on his search alone.

What makes this so curious is its resonance with what Ms Pauline Sanders told the FBI on the Sunday:



Which would be a very odd error for Ms Sanders to make, given that she was out front and must surely have known that Mr Truly had been out front too and so could hardly have been inside lunching with Mr Oswald!

One assumes-------one must assume--------that the agent misunderstood Ms Sanders.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

However! I once saw it suggested on one of the forums that there was an Oswald-Officer incident in that lunchroom, but that it happened before the shooting and the officer was not Officer Baker. Mr Truly was in the lunchroom with Mr Oswald, who would have assumed this was part of a pre-parade security sweep of buildings in the area.

This is, I think, the only scenario by which Agent Bookhout's solo-written report-----

Oswald stated that on November 22, 1963, at the time of the search of the Texas School Book Depository building by Dallas police officers, he was on the second floor of said building, having just purchased a Coca-cola form the soft-drink machine, at which time a police officer came into the room with pistol drawn and asked him if he worked there. Mr. Truly was present and verified that he was an employee and the police officer thereafter left the room and continued through the building. Oswald stated that he took this Coke down to the first floor and stood around and had lunch in the employee?s lunch room

------could be anything other than a lie. "[A]t the time of the search of the Texas School Book Depository building by Dallas police officers" would mean the supposed pre-parade security sweep of the building. (Mr Oswald being lured into a false sense of security.)

All a little too complicated for my taste though!

A much cleaner solution:

1. Mr Oswald visited the 2nd fl lunchroom before the motorcade (seen there by Ms Arnold & Ms Stanton)
2. He went back down to the 1st floor and stood around eating lunch (noticing Messrs Jarman & Norman coming in by the back door on their way to the back elevator)
3. Hearing the excitement rise outside, he hurried down to the front entrance and stepped outside (seen by the film cameras of Messrs Hughes, Wiegman & Darnell)
4. After the shooting, an officer with pistol drawn (Baker) came charging into the building and asked him if he worked there (=looking for help finding the stairs)
5. Mr Truly came up, identified himself and offered to help the officer
6. Mr Oswald told all this to Captain Fritz
7. DPD told the press all about the incident at the front entrance
8. Once it became clear just how soon after the shooting this incident had happened, it was moved away from the front entrance and near to the back stairway (this happened Friday pm)
9. Mr Oswald's actual claims were rewritten------to ludicrous effect------so as to 'corroborate' the new lunchroom incident.

 Thumb1:

a pre-parade security sweep of buildings in the area.

This is, I think, the only scenario by which Agent Bookhout's solo-written report-----

Oswald stated that on November 22, 1963, at the time of the search of the Texas School Book Depository building by Dallas police officers, he was on the second floor of said building, having just purchased a Coca-cola form the soft-drink machine, at which time a police officer came into the room with pistol drawn and asked him if he worked there. Mr. Truly was present and verified that he was an employee and the police officer thereafter left the room and continued through the building. Oswald stated that he took this Coke down to the first floor and stood around and had lunch in the employee?s lunch room


There was no pre-parade sweep of the TSBD....  You know that Mr Ford.....  I had assumed that you were an intelligent and honest student of the case.....You are rapidly proving that you are not honest.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1326 on: February 25, 2019, 03:23:16 PM »


Offline Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1327 on: February 25, 2019, 03:42:23 PM »
According to the linked to FBI Report, FBI SA JamesWillinghamBookhout (1914-2009) stated that during interrogation, LeeHarveyOswald said that during the TSBD building search by DPD Officers, he had just purchased a Coca-Cola when he had been encountered by a PoliceOfficer, and RoyTruly, on the second floor, and went downstairs after said encounter.

No need to take my word for it, as said statement can be easily found:

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0322a.htm

FBI Agent JamesWillinghamBookhout's WarrenCommissionTestimony:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bookhout.htm