Prayer Woman

[Alan Ford]

Friends, we MUST account for the variable amount of wall showing between Prayer Man's right elbow and the redbrick section!

The very short gap in WIEGMAN makes it impossible to put Prayer Man anywhere other than one step down:



But! The gap is markedly larger in DARNELL:



I don't believe this can be explained away simply by the slightly different POV between the two cameramen.

Seems to me the only credible explanation------------barring other credible suggestions! -------------is the following:

When Prayer Man in Wiegman moves his right hand up to his mouth, his right elbow is raised correspondingly:



Now if Prayer Man were to fold his arms, we would expect to see that right elbow higher than it was when he wasn't eating/drinking and slightly east of where it was when he was. And that's exactly what we do see in Darnell:



So I submit!:

-Prayer Man in Wiegman has his hands in the 'prayer' formation
-Prayer Man in Darnell has his arms folded.

No other solution seems to me to naturally allow Prayer Man to stay on the same step AND change so obviously the position of his right elbow!

[Patrick Jackson]

You probably won't because she probably wasn't in Dealey Plaza at the time of the assassination. (Cf. Virginia H. Barnum, Vida Lee Whatley.)

The thing with the Scarf lady in blue coat is that she could not be TSBD employee. She was wearing a coat which means that she went to watch motorcade early and was outside all the time. If she was TSBD employee she would not take raincoat to go out at 12:20-12:25. Right? We must find here somewhere else before Martin/Hughes films.

[Larry Trotter]

The thing with the Scarf lady in blue coat is that she could not be TSBD employee. She was wearing a coat which means that she went to watch motorcade early and was outside all the time. If she was TSBD employee she would not take raincoat to go out at 12:20-12:25. Right? We must find here somewhere else before Martin/Hughes films.

I do apologize for entering into your conversation with AlanFord, but I have to question the validity of your expressed theory that the person represented by ScarfLadyImage cannot be employed at the TexasSchoolBookDepository Building, with your reasoning of said person wearing a coat

There are numerous indications of MalePersonImages representing males at and/or near the TSBD Bldg wearing jackets/coats at about the same time. But no, I do not know the exact number, and it is not necessary to validate "numerous", as it applies.

Also, there are numerous indications of FemalePersonImages representing females at and/or near the TSBD Bldg wearing coats at about the same time. But no, again, I do not know the exact number, and it is not necessary to validate "numerous", as it applies.

So, for clarification, it is my developed conclusion that ScarfLadyImage represents a female that was then employed at the TSBD Bldg, and the HughesFilm as well as the MartinFilm are indicative of an employee at said building attempting to return to her work area.

[Duncan MacRae]

I do apologize for entering into your conversation with AlanFord, but I have to question the validity of your expressed theory that the person represented by ScarfLadyImage cannot be employed at the TexasSchoolBookDepository Building, with your reasoning of said person wearing a coat

There are numerous indications of MalePersonImages representing males at and/or near the TSBD Bldg wearing jackets/coats at about the same time. But no, I do not know the exact number, and it is not necessary to validate "numerous", as it applies.

Also, there are numerous indications of FemalePersonImages representing females at and/or near the TSBD Bldg wearing coats at about the same time. But no, again, I do not know the exact number, and it is not necessary to validate "numerous", as it applies.

So, for clarification, it is my developed conclusion that ScarfLadyImage represents a female that was then employed at the TSBD Bldg, and the HughesFilm as well as the MartinFilm are indicative of an employee at said building attempting to return to her work area.

Here she is again, Larry, courtesy of Chris Davidson.

I don't know the time of this short clip, as Chris didn't provide any further info along with the Video clip.

[Larry Trotter]

Here she is again, Larry, courtesy of Chris Davidson.

I don't know the time of this short clip, as Chris didn't provide any further info along with the Video clip.

Yes, I have seen that image before, and possibly, an actual photograph form a similar angle.
I do see a resemblance of LadyImage as seen on the stairs speaking to a gentleman, to ScarfLadyImage and PrayerWomanImage.
My time guesstimation would be as LadyImage is leaving the TSBD Bldg for the day, maybe about 2:20pm CST on 11/22/'63. Certainly no later than about 2;30pm CST.
Good find, good post.

[Patrick Jackson]

I do apologize for entering into your conversation with AlanFord, but I have to question the validity of your expressed theory that the person represented by ScarfLadyImage cannot be employed at the TexasSchoolBookDepository Building, with your reasoning of said person wearing a coat

There are numerous indications of MalePersonImages representing males at and/or near the TSBD Bldg wearing jackets/coats at about the same time. But no, I do not know the exact number, and it is not necessary to validate "numerous", as it applies.

Also, there are numerous indications of FemalePersonImages representing females at and/or near the TSBD Bldg wearing coats at about the same time. But no, again, I do not know the exact number, and it is not necessary to validate "numerous", as it applies.

So, for clarification, it is my developed conclusion that ScarfLadyImage represents a female that was then employed at the TSBD Bldg, and the HughesFilm as well as the MartinFilm are indicative of an employee at said building attempting to return to her work area.

If we accept that the Scarf Lady is wearing a rain coat what are the chances she is TSBD employee? Very, very low. Most of the TSBD employees left their working positions between 12:10-12:30 when the rain was well over and there was a nice sun so what are the chances TSBD employee would take her rain coat to go outside to watch the motorcade? Very, very low.
Scarf lady was a person who lived reasonably away from Dallas, who left her home early in the morning while it was raining or about to rain and that is why she had a rain coat. Same as people in Fort Worth, most of them had rain coats.
Once again, there are slim chances TSBD employee would take rain coat to go down and watch motorcade at noon. Same as you see many spectators in Dallas do not have rain coats because they lived close and did not have to leave their homes early in the morning while it was raining.

Luckily, I quickly found this image on my files. I think this was Scarf Lady but have to find here somewhere else too.

[Larry Trotter]

Friends, we MUST account for the variable amount of wall showing between Prayer Man's right elbow and the redbrick section!

The very short gap in WIEGMAN makes it impossible to put Prayer Man anywhere other than one step down:



But! The gap is markedly larger in DARNELL:



I don't believe this can be explained away simply by the slightly different POV between the two cameramen.

Seems to me the only credible explanation------------barring other credible suggestions! -------------is the following:

When Prayer Man in Wiegman moves his right hand up to his mouth, his right elbow is raised correspondingly:



Now if Prayer Man were to fold his arms, we would expect to see that right elbow higher than it was when he wasn't eating/drinking and slightly east of where it was when he was. And that's exactly what we do see in Darnell:



So I submit!:

-Prayer Man in Wiegman has his hands in the 'prayer' formation
-Prayer Man in Darnell has his arms folded.

No other solution seems to me to naturally allow Prayer Man to stay on the same step AND change so obviously the position of his right elbow!

I have to conclude that I see no, as in not any, as in none, as in zero, evidence to justify a conclusion that the doorway/entrance portal stairs/landing image(s) indicate that PrayerPersonImage is standing, partially or fully, on any stair/step lower than the landing atop the stairway.
Although I make no claim of film/photography expertise, there appears to be some angle and/or distance variation between separate images, as where the doorway images appear to be size similar, there appears to be a definite size difference between them, and that of the occupants on the street when viewing the 'comparison' similar scene film images.
I have to conclude, also, there now appears to be 'versions' of filmed/pictured similar scenes of the portal area relative to the PrayerPersonImage identity debate. And, 'versions' appear to have image(s) adjustment(s), as well as additional image(s) insertions, So, maybe time has come for film/photograph authentication if used to 'illustrate debatable evidence'.

[Alan Ford]

If we accept that the Scarf Lady is wearing a rain coat what are the chances she is TSBD employee? Very, very low. Most of the TSBD employees left their working positions between 12:10-12:30 when the rain was well over and there was a nice sun so what are the chances TSBD employee would take her rain coat to go outside to watch the motorcade? Very, very low.
Scarf lady was a person who lived reasonably away from Dallas, who left her home early in the morning while it was raining or about to rain and that is why she had a rain coat. Same as people in Fort Worth, most of them had rain coats.
Once again, there are slim chances TSBD employee would take rain coat to go down and watch motorcade at noon. Same as you see many spectators in Dallas do not have rain coats because they lived close and did not have to leave their homes early in the morning while it was raining.

She's probably Virginia H. Barnum!