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Offline Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #400 on: June 20, 2018, 02:03:34 PM »
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Start at 53 minute mark.

"She was off to my left." i.e to the right of the entrance.

And where does BuellWesleyFrazier indicate LeeHarveyOswald, who by the way was a coworker that rode to work with him that very morning, to be as the portal area was filmed during the motorcade passing said area?

Also, are you absolutely sure about your "i.e. to the right of the entrance" assertion?
So, are you positive that he was not referring to "off to my left" as being relative to his position while viewing the picture?

In any event, surely had LeeHarveyOswald been among the entrance area/portal occupants as filmed, BuellWesleyFrazier would have seen him!
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 06:43:31 AM by Larry Trotter »

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #400 on: June 20, 2018, 02:03:34 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #401 on: June 20, 2018, 02:09:17 PM »
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And where does BuellWesleyFrazier indicate LeeHarveyOswald, who by the way was a coworker, and road to work with him that very morning, to be as the portal area was filmed during the motorcade passing said area?

Also, are you absolutely sure about your "i.e. to the right of the entrance" assertion?
So, are you positive that he was not referring to "off to my left" as being relative to his position while viewing the picture?

In any event, surely had LeeHarveyOswald been among the entrance area/portal as filmed, BuellWesleyFrazier would have seen him!



Scenario A: Frazier sees Sarah Stanton (or any other Depository employee other than LHO) in the PrayerPerson position and testifies to that fact---------->NO PROBLEM!
Scenario B: Frazier sees LHO in the PrayerPerson position and testifies to that fact----------->PROBLEM!

Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #402 on: June 20, 2018, 05:30:22 PM »
The Prayer Man cultists are using Larry to walk around my posts with their trivial input...

They are ignoring that Frazier's 2002 reference to Sarah being on his left is easily explained by Sarah being on Frazier's left when she first came out with Pauline Sanders as Sanders testified...That time reference is from as much as 5 minutes before Darnell or more...

When I post that Frazier's video interview from 2013 gives a much more precise and detailed location of Stanton that confirms Frazier is talking about the exact instant of Darnell's image it gets ignored and the Prayer Man trolls come back and post the 2002 reference...Like with Sanders' statement, the Prayer Man trolls deliberately, publicly avoid the better evidence because they know it disproves their dishonest offerings...

Over on the Education Forum because I am censored from responding to my own discoveries the Prayer Man group is being allowed to hijack the thread and flood it with their bogus offerings...This is what the Education Forum moderation considers academic and fair...

Here is an e-mail I sent to Hargrove that he hasn't yet posted:


As for the interview...After a good night's sleep and second listen I realized that the daughter in law said that Sarah asked Oswald "Are you going UP for lunch?" and Oswald replied "No, I'm going back in my room" (5:42)...I now realize that Sarah met Oswald on the landing to the 2nd floor staircase in front of the lunch room...I now realize that in his answer Oswald said he was not going back upstairs but was instead going back in to the lunch room - the same place Carolyn Arnold saw him a few minutes later...My earpiece microphone weakens the voices of people on the phone so I missed her saying that during the interview...I should have followed that up during the interview and missed a chance...

The reason Kamp & company are not answering is because they are retreating to yet another one of Kamp's loads of BS that they will then refer to and say defeats my offering without ever addressing its detailed evidence...Something similar to what they do with your Armstrong evidence...

Review of the interview made me realize Sarah injected Oswald going upstairs simply because she assumed the Warren Commission version was accurate and after her encounter Oswald went upstairs...The true context of her witnessing makes sense if you realize Sarah never saw Oswald after she left him on the staircase landing...

It then becomes apparent that if Sarah was freely telling this story to family members that she must have also mentioned it to FBI...In their report FBI wrote that Sarah never saw Oswald that day...This is what they did to Carolyn Arnold too and her witnessing of Oswald in the lunch room...It stands to reason that FBI was worried about Oswald being seen in the lunch room so we have a second incriminating example of FBI flagrantly altering testimony...

It is criminal that there is no follow-through conversation about Sarah seeing Oswald with a soda (Coke)...Since this is early-on and before the shooting it begs the question if this was the long sleeve shirt Oswald with a Coke and Jeraldean Reid saw the second T-shirt Oswald also with a Coke? Both having Cokes would be an Intelligence tactic for people to assume they were the same person - only Mrs Reid noticed the T-shirt Oswald's Coke was full... (end)


PS -Let's see how long it takes the bully egotist Jim DiEugenio to recognize my interview and its importance...We'll see how long Jim struggles with his ego in order to ignore a serious new witnessing...


« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 06:00:36 PM by Brian Doyle »

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #402 on: June 20, 2018, 05:30:22 PM »

Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #403 on: June 20, 2018, 07:03:49 PM »


The Education Forum is allowing Stancak to ignore that his imaginary Sarah Stanton that he places behind Lovelady and Shelley is exactly where his "Tiny Woman" Pauline Sanders is located and therefore is obviously her...

Stancak is being allowed to post an overhead graphic of this imaginary Stanton while making a cartoon graphic for her that is way too thin and therefore seriously inaccurate...Not to mention the fact that there is no one there and the only reason Stancak is inventing this non-existent Stanton is because he can't admit Prayer Man is her...

Shelley is also gone and off the landing and walking up the Elm St extension by the time of Darnell...So Stancak's placing him on the landing is another gross misrepresentation that the Education Forum moderation doesn't seem to mind...


Online Ray Mitcham

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #404 on: June 20, 2018, 07:17:58 PM »
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And where does BuellWesleyFrazier indicate LeeHarveyOswald, who by the way was a coworker, and road to work with him that very morning, to be as the portal area was filmed during the motorcade passing said area?
He didn't mention him obviously.
Quote
Also, are you absolutely sure about your "i.e. to the right of the entrance" assertion?
So, are you positive that he was not referring to "off to my left" as being relative to his position while viewing the picture?

Why would he be facing the door, if he meant to the left of the entrance? Wake up. Trotter.
Quote
In any event, surely had LeeHarveyOswald been among the entrance area/portal occupants as filmed, BuellWesleyFrazier would have seen him![/size][/font][/i]

We can't be sure he didn't, can we?

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #404 on: June 20, 2018, 07:17:58 PM »

Offline Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #405 on: June 20, 2018, 08:36:37 PM »
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He didn't mention him obviously.
Why would he be facing the door, if he meant to the left of the entrance? Wake up. Trotter.
We can't be sure he didn't, can we?
He didn't mention seeing LHO, obviously because LHO was not there.

Instead of questioning my alertness, why don't you answer the question Mitcham?
And, where did I indicate anything about BWF "facing the door"?

I am confident, especially since no one else saw LHO there at the time, that surely BWF did not see LHO either.


Edited in the hope that Mitcham can recognize both(2) questions...
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 08:56:51 PM by Larry Trotter »

Online Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #406 on: June 20, 2018, 09:25:21 PM »
Quote
After discussions in private with Larry Hancock I gotta say that there is of course the possibility that Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald 2x, even though the glass of water argument is flawed with a water cooler being present in the corridor before going back to the office/lunch room.
Typical of Prayer Man theorists Kamp backs off his claim that Carolyn Arnold was lying because there was no water facility in the lunch room while not backing off his claim...Kamp gives no answer to the fact photos of the 2nd floor lunch room kitchen counter show what might be a water tap fixture at the right end of the counter...

Kamp also contemptuously ignores that Carolyn Arnold was very clear to Earl Golz that she never saw or said she saw Oswald in the foyer...With Kamp, even though the FBI lie is the obvious bogus claim, it is the lunch room witnessing that is still questionable....

Quote
Molina's report by Senkel.

Molina's report is useless because it doesn't show anything that relates to Sarah Stanton's witnessing...All it says is he left the building at about 12:15...Molina's saying he was with Stanton on the landing is useless because there is no exact time reference as to when...

Quote
Or Reid's WC testimony.

Mr. BELIN. All right. Do you know about what time it was that you left the lunchroom, was it 12, 12:15?

Mrs. REID. I think around 12:30 somewhere along in there

Mr. BELIN. Were you the last person in the lunchroom?

Mrs. REID. No; I could not say that because I don't remember that part of it because I was going out of the building by myself, I wasn't even, you know, connected with anyone at all.

Mr. BELIN. Were there any men in the lunchroom when you left there?

Mrs. REID. I can't, I don't, remember that.

Mr. BELIN. All right.

Mrs. REID. I can't remember the time they left.

Of course Kamp doesn't comment on the fact that 12:30 was impossible because Reid would have missed the motorcade if she left at that time...

Further on in Mrs Reid's Warren Commission testimony she describes leaving the 2nd floor lunch room via the door to the offices...Kamp avoids discussing this because he knows it works against his Prayer Man BS...What Kamp is avoiding here is if Mrs Reid left through the vestibule door into the offices that means she did not go out on the the 2nd floor staircase landing where Sarah Stanton saw Oswald...Stanton's witnessing is valuable because if it is accurate it means that we know why Mrs Reid would not have seen Oswald...Kamp is very aware that this works against Murphy so he plays dumb and skips mentioning any of it...Stanton's seeing Oswald by the staircase matches the other witnessing...

Mrs Reid told the Commission that she took the passenger elevator down to the front steps to watch the motorcade after she got her jacket and pocketbook from the offices so we know she left the lunchroom at at least 12:25 because Reid mentioned being outside for a few minutes before the motorcade arrived...So this scenario makes it possible that Stanton sees Oswald on the staircase landing while Reid is in the lunch room...Reid exits via the vestibule door to the offices and misses Oswald who is anywhere from the Domino Room to the 2nd floor staircase landing...Carolyn Arnold leaves late and gets a drink from the 2nd floor lunch room because of her pregnancy and not wanting to be outside standing too long... 

Quote
Carolyn Arnold  may have seen him getting a coke as described by  Sarah Stanton and then seen him later while standing outside. As she is spotted looking around to DalTex in Wiegman and could have easily looked back as well, or pass him while going through the vestibule. But she could have used one to deny the other.

So we can ignore several years of Kamp's crazy BS that Carolyn Arnold was lying...Kamp puts himself and his trolling before a real major witness who insisted to Golz that she never saw Oswald in the foyer...Kamp is now taking over reality and ignoring what a highly credible real witnesses insisted in order to force his claim that Arnold saw Oswald in the foyer simply because he says so...Kamp allows himself to ignore that FBI obviously altered Carolyn Arnold's statement because they were aware that Oswald was in the lunch room...Kamp then backs FBI's lie and their alteration of Mrs Arnold's lunch room witnessing without flinching while ignoring that one of those has to be wrong...But when you are taking over reality and just making things happen because you say so you can back two opposing things at the same time in public without accounting for it...If this stupidity and incompetence causes you any trouble, don't worry...The moderators will bail you out by banning those who point it out...   

Quote
The Stanton story is valuable because she stated to her family that she saw Oswald with a soda and asked him whether he was going to go out for lunch!  Before the motorcade passed by and had his Coke FOR his lunch! Just like Hosty and Bookhout stated.

Kamp is not quoting accurately...At 5:42 of the interview the daughter in law says Sarah asked Oswald if he was going UP to lunch (not "out")...Oswald responded, "No, I'm going back to my room"...This is very important because it describes Oswald saying he was not going to go back upstairs but was going to go back in to the lunch room whose door he was standing on front of...The same lunch room Carolyn Arnold would see Oswald sitting in shortly after...Kamp dishonestly reports this passage because he knows it refutes his Prayer Man BS...

The witnessing of the soda is extremely valuable because it makes credible researchers ask if this was the long-sleeved Oswald with the Coke?...That would then mean the T-shirt Oswald witnessed by Mrs Reid was another Oswald with another Coke...The Coke bottle being a useful intelligence prop to make witnesses think the two Oswald's were one person...Bottles that disappeared from the evidence because of their fingerprints...
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 09:39:54 PM by Brian Doyle »

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #406 on: June 20, 2018, 09:25:21 PM »

Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #407 on: June 20, 2018, 09:55:51 PM »
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...are you positive that he was not referring to "off to my left" as being relative to his position while viewing the picture?

In any event, surely had LeeHarveyOswald been among the entrance area/portal occupants as filmed, BuellWesleyFrazier would have seen him!

Watch it, find any reference to a picture and get back to us.
BWF would have seen PM yes, well done.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #407 on: June 20, 2018, 09:55:51 PM »

Online Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #408 on: June 20, 2018, 10:03:19 PM »
Quote
What seems very  possible to me is that Arnold went of her office into the corridor to the water cooler and coming or going saw Oswald in the open area outside the lunchroom which services the corridors, the back stairway which Oswald might well use , the entrance to the lunchroom and of course to the office area.  That would have been well before before the motorcade arrived.   Later, downstairs she saw him again in the area of the TSBD doorway just as the motorcade arrived...as she told the FBI.  That would be essentially the same statement the Supt of the TSBD made to the newspapers the next morning...before he exited the picture.

This would make Stanton's remarks about seeing Oswald with a soda, taking it down to the break room where he was going to eat - and where he and the TSBD employees normally ate - very consistent - along with the remarks of the black employees who recalled him there but obviously became afraid to say so and his own description of seeing them there while he was eating.

All of this would put Oswald on the first floor and certainly not up on the sixth with his rifle preparing for the arrival of the motorcade.

As Bart notes, there will be objections to that, I can't prove it but there are a number of consistencies that suggest it and which also suggest why Arnold, and Stanton might not have wanted to push the issue as the implications of what they had seen became clear.


Larry Hancock is obviously a Prayer Man bunny in bed with the quack he gave the Lancer award to...Here Hancock conveniently ignores that Carolyn Arnold insisted with emphasis to Earl Golz that she saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room proper where he was sitting at one of the booth tables (the same one near the front that Westbrook described)...Larry is dragging Oswald out to the vestibule passage in order to avoid admitting Carolyn Arnold's witnessing was real and placed Oswald in the lunch room where he was obviously comfortably set up eating lunch...

Hancock then repeats Kamp's dirty trick and ignores the fact the actual witness herself, Carolyn Arnold, again insisted with emphasis to Golz that she never saw Oswald in the foyer on the 1st floor and that FBI had fabricated that...Hancock and Kamp contemptuously ignore Carolyn Arnold's insisting this and endorse FBI's criminal alteration of the evidence...The Education Forum muggers, while accusing me of stealing Zambanini's research, have now assumed my discovery while removing me from any association with it...They have also claimed my interview was a bad example of an interview but I see they have subsequently adopted most of its contents...

Hancock ignores how "Claims 2nd floor Coke when officer came in" doesn't give Oswald enough time to do what his scenario logistically requires...Nor would Oswald not be out of breath if he had...

I think Carolyn Johnston is still alive...Just like with Frazier none of the Prayer Man phonies are going to rush to interview her because they already know what the answer will be...

Nowhere does Hancock mention that placing Oswald in the vestibule reinforces Baker...
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 10:09:25 PM by Brian Doyle »

Offline Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #409 on: June 20, 2018, 10:14:46 PM »
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Watch it, find any reference to a picture and get back to us.
BWF would have seen PM yes, well done.

BuellWesleyFrazier did not see, would not have seen, and could not have seen LeeHarveyOswald on the TSBD Entrance stairs/landing during the filming at or near the time of the DealeyPlaza shooting on 11/22/'63.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #409 on: June 20, 2018, 10:14:46 PM »

 

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