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Author Topic: Prayer Woman  (Read 226740 times)

Online Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #370 on: June 19, 2018, 04:24:02 AM »
Considering the photograph is furnished by a close relative of SarahStanton, it is of course beyond doubt that it represents SarahStanton. I noticed in the interview that a slight reference indicated some weight gain and/or loss over time. And, it does appear as though SarahStantonImage is older than age 40-42. Estimates tend to have variables, especially considering either way the photograph has to be at least 40 years old.

The ScarfLadyImage may appear to be holding a larger light colored purse, but my take is her purse is smaller, possibly black, and strapped to her forearm. A reference was made in the interview of her daughter inlaw and grand daughter, regarding her preferred purse size. The abnormality is, I believe, a reflection of a male image standing next to the glass wall, possibly a construction worker, and wearing a hardhat.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #370 on: June 19, 2018, 04:24:02 AM »

Offline Duncan MacRae

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #371 on: June 19, 2018, 08:46:44 AM »
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The other one that Larry found does show the possibility of it being the same person in the animated GIF.


It's not a new find, Michael.


I submitted this woman as a possibility 3 to 4 years ago, maybe longer.

It was largely ignored, except for interest from a couple of members.

Now that we have an image of Sarah Stanton, a comparison can now be made.

This woman does look like a big woman.

The facial features appear to me to be uncannily similar to that of an older in appearance and plumper faced Sarah Stanton as posted by Brian?

Making allowance for the different Camera angles:

Same Deep Set Eyes, High Forehead, Curved Pointy Nose, High Cheekbones, Semi Pointed Witchy Chin.

Any small physical Facial appearance differences, are in my opinion, almost certainly due to the different Camera angle POV's, plus the natural changes caused by the passage of time between the comparison images.

More importantly, Could she be Sarah Stanton? ie, Prayer Man with dark hair in 1963, and filmed at a later moment in time at the entrance of the TSBD? I believe it could very well be.

For Brian:

Brian, Can you try to get a recorded verified ID from her Granddaughter if this is indeed Sarah at a later moment in time at the TSBD entrance?

You may post an opinion, but do not make a final judgement yourself.

It is crucial to let her family be the arbiters of this comparison.


Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #372 on: June 19, 2018, 05:39:42 PM »
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Brian, Can you try to get a recorded verified ID from her Granddaughter if this is indeed Sarah at a later moment in time at the TSBD entrance?

You may post an opinion, but do not make a final judgement yourself.


Duncan: In my opinion, (the opinion of the person who has driven this issue), there is simply no way that Scarf Lady is Sarah Stanton or Prayer Man (who are the same person)...There's a couple of reasons why...The white on Scarf Lady's scarf is not something that Darnell's camera and film would have missed at that level of visibility...A good practicer of photo analysis would realize that if Darnell's camera could pick-up the white color of Prayer Man's skin that it wouldn't miss the sheet white color of Scarf Lady's scarf...You should see by your own comparison that the clearly seen white of Scarf Lady's scarf is missing from Prayer Man's head therefore automatically excluding her...The dark of her jacket sleeve also goes too far up her forearm..Both these are disqualifying at a basic level of photo analysis...Your juxtaposition refutes Scarf Lady by direct comparison...

In her comments to me Sarah's grand daughter told me Sarah told her that she watched the assassination from the front steps but then went immediately up to the 2nd floor to get a better view of the goings on...Since the Scarf Lady clip is as much as 20 minutes after the shots that excludes Scarf Lady from being either Prayer Man or Stanton...Scarf Lady is also too thin to be Stanton and obviously has a different face...

Now if you go back to Walton's juxtaposition of Stanton's family photo and Prayer Man and reduce Stanton slightly more for correct proportion you will see a perfect match for the body outline, forearm, and hips...The shoulder profile is also identical...As a skilled analyst it is extremely frustrating to me to see confirming evidence shown in public that people don't detect the finer clues of...With the Stanton juxtaposition you have a photogrammetric lock (as the grand daughter agreed)...

Frazier's syncing of Calvery's position in relation to his talking to "Sarah" makes Prayer Man Stanton...A good photo analyst will see Scarf Lady does not have the obese features of Stanton...


« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 05:46:10 PM by Brian Doyle »

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #372 on: June 19, 2018, 05:39:42 PM »

Online Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #373 on: June 19, 2018, 06:02:20 PM »
Would you believe Sir Gary Mack of Texashire just happened to ask him the wrong question(around 53m in).
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Just before that here's also "Lovelady was around 5'2-5'4" and he only thinks to himself as the parade comes by...
Correct or not, all in all a much more interesting man to listen to, with a little help and the help not even credited.

Also just take a moment to study the very first second of the video...

FTLD.
"CSPAN Buell Wesley Frasier part 1 & 2"

YT version, same again 53m, GM: "was there any one standing there with you?"...
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 06:24:36 PM by Barry Pollard »

Offline Duncan MacRae

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #374 on: June 19, 2018, 06:50:29 PM »
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Duncan: In my opinion, (the opinion of the person who has driven this issue), there is simply no way that Scarf Lady is Sarah Stanton or Prayer Man (who are the same person)...There's a couple of reasons why...The white on Scarf Lady's scarf is not something that Darnell's camera and film would have missed at that level of visibility...A good practicer of photo analysis would realize that if Darnell's camera could pick-up the white color of Prayer Man's skin that it wouldn't miss the sheet white color of Scarf Lady's scarf...You should see by your own comparison that the clearly seen white of Scarf Lady's scarf is missing from Prayer Man's head therefore automatically excluding her...The dark of her jacket sleeve also goes too far up her forearm..Both these are disqualifying at a basic level of photo analysis...Your juxtaposition refutes Scarf Lady by direct comparison...

In her comments to me Sarah's grand daughter told me Sarah told her that she watched the assassination from the front steps but then went immediately up to the 2nd floor to get a better view of the goings on...Since the Scarf Lady clip is as much as 20 minutes after the shots that excludes Scarf Lady from being either Prayer Man or Stanton...Scarf Lady is also too thin to be Stanton and obviously has a different face...

Now if you go back to Walton's juxtaposition of Stanton's family photo and Prayer Man and reduce Stanton slightly more for correct proportion you will see a perfect match for the body outline, forearm, and hips...The shoulder profile is also identical...As a skilled analyst it is extremely frustrating to me to see confirming evidence shown in public that people don't detect the finer clues of...With the Stanton juxtaposition you have a photogrammetric lock (as the grand daughter agreed)...

Frazier's syncing of Calvery's position in relation to his talking to "Sarah" makes Prayer Man Stanton...A good photo analyst will see Scarf Lady does not have the obese features of Stanton...

Thanks for your opinion, Brian.

I am obviously aware of the issues which you raise, but we are only working with one known real life image of Sarah Stanton probaly taken some years later, and some poor quality speculative Nov 22, 1963 images.

Due to the difference in time between the comparison Nov 22, 1963 images, I see the wearing of a scarf in a much later image as an invalid argument. This is simple common sense.

Now, could you please ask and record the relatives of Sarah Stanton, who know what she really looked like, as we don't know what she really looked like from viewing just one photograph, if scarf lady is possibly Sarah Stanton, and without any opinions being given by yourself before you speak to them, and without any leading questions being asked by yourself.


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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #374 on: June 19, 2018, 06:50:29 PM »

Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #375 on: June 19, 2018, 06:59:50 PM »
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without any opinions being given by yourself before you speak to them, and without any leading questions being asked by yourself.

The interview does appear to be leading the witness but what listeners don't realize is I had several weeks of private messages where the leading opinions were something the grand daughter already agreed on and offered herself...


Kamp is also accusing me of stealing Zambanini's work...Not true...I took a name posted on Find-A-Grave in public and contacted the witness...In no way is that stealing someone's work and I wish I could sue those suggesting it...Besides, Zambanini is trying to prove Oswald was Prayer Man...In no way does any credible researcher owe anything to uncredible researchers trying to mislead the community with false theories... 

Offline Duncan MacRae

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #376 on: June 19, 2018, 07:08:09 PM »
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The interview does appear to be leading the witness but what listeners don't realize is I had several weeks of private messages where the leading opinions were something the grand daughter already agreed on and offered herself...


Kamp is also accusing me of stealing Zambanini's work...Not true...I took a name posted on Find-A-Grave in public and contacted the witness...In no way is that stealing someone's work and I wish I could sue those suggesting it...Besides, Zambanini is trying to prove Oswald was Prayer Man...In no way does any credible researcher owe anything to uncredible researchers trying to mislead the community with false theories...

Never mind what Kamp says, he hasn't a clue and he's not too bright.

Just because Sarah might have been standing to Frazier's left before the motorcade arrived, doesn't mean that she was standing to his left after the motorcade arrived and when the assassination was finished.

Apart from that, I wasn't refering to your already posted interview, I am asking you to show the scarf lady image comparison animated gif shown below to Sarah's family for a review by them, as they are the only ones who really know what she looked like at varying stages of her life.


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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #376 on: June 19, 2018, 07:08:09 PM »

Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #377 on: June 19, 2018, 07:31:05 PM »
Kamp is up to his usual tricks...On the Education Forum Kamp found a video from 2002 where Frazier identifies an unnamed woman who is most likely Stanton as being to his left...Kamp thinks he has scored a coup here and overturned our case...

If we go back to the evidence Kamp is flagrantly ignoring Lovelady named the people closest to him on the landing from his left to his right in order...When he did so he listed Shelley, Frazier, and Sarah Stanton...

Kamp just outright ignores that if Stanton were to the left of Frazier that she would be seen in Altgens...Or at least in Darnell where her width couldn't be hidden...

Kamp ignores Frazier's more educated statement about Sarah's location in 2013 when he had been better briefed on the evidence...The Education Forum lets Kamp get away with murder because Frazier's location of Stanton in the 2002 interview has no timing associated with it and is therefore inferior to his 2013 locating of Stanton because the latter has a very precise detailing of the timing involved and the precise actions of the people in question...As with Pauline Sanders' vague locating of Stanton, Kamp prefers a vague example over the precisely accurate one and offers it straight-faced while ignoring that he has had this explained to him for several years...No problem with the moderators there even though Kamp is contemptuously violating their so-called demands for rigor...

It seems obvious to me that Frazier is confusing Stanton's location because he is remembering where she was when she first came outside with Pauline Sanders...There is no doubt to where Frazier places Stanton in his 2013 interview...Stanton is the person he is "looking at" when Calvery got to the steps...The evidence Kamp is ignoring in contempt (with full posting privileges) shows Frazier looking at Prayer Man precisely at the moment he detailed...Only a person in contempt of the research public and honest analysis would dare ignore this and offer an undetailed memory as superior...Especially when it has an easy explanation...

The JFK research community is dishonest because they have the means to take all this and put it coherently and comprehensibly to Frazier...They don't because they already know what he will say...

On a side note, the Deep Politics forum is not embarrassed by its moronic silence on this important evidence or how two highly unqualified incompetent muggers banned its originator...The forum is a bully pit there solely for the dominating egos and not for the evidence...

« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 11:16:33 PM by Brian Doyle »

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #377 on: June 19, 2018, 07:31:05 PM »

Offline Howard Gee

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #378 on: June 19, 2018, 07:33:54 PM »
For what it's worth (I know, not much) I think we're looking at the same woman in all 3 images.

I agree with Duncan, especially about the forehead and chin being good matches.

I think it's pretty clear that the woman in the montage is holding a bag tucked under her left wrist and forearm (right above Lovelady's head).

I also think that PP is probably holding a bag, although in a slightly different manner, which accounts for the similar, kind of unusual, arm positioning.

Lastly, I think we can almost see the scarf tails (similar to a tie) in the PP image as in the other clearer image taken on 11/22.

Simply not enough definition in the PP image to make a definitive call, but put a gun to my head and I'm going with we're seeing the same person in all 3 images.

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #379 on: June 19, 2018, 07:35:58 PM »
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Would you believe Sir Gary Mack of Texashire just happened to ask him the wrong question(around 53m in).
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Just before that here's also "Lovelady was around 5'2-5'4" and he only thinks to himself as the parade comes by...
Correct or not, all in all a much more interesting man to listen to, with a little help and the help not even credited.

Also just take a moment to study the very first second of the video...

FTLD.
"CSPAN Buell Wesley Frasier part 1 & 2"

YT version, same again 53m, GM: "was there any one standing there with you?"...

Thanks Barry.

53.00:

MACK: Was she off to your right or to your left?

FRAZIER (gesturing to his left): Left.

MACK: To your left.

But if you keep listening, at 54.19 it gets really interesting:

FRAZIER: As soon as I remarked to the woman to my left that Jackie looked as beautiful as in the magazines, the woman smiled, did a sudden cartwheel past me to the other side of the steps and stuck a dark wig on her head for professional reasons.

MACK: Did that surprise you?

FRAZIER: Sure did. But I didn't have time to think about it on account of that was when the first shot rang out.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #379 on: June 19, 2018, 07:35:58 PM »

 

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