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Author Topic: Prayer Woman  (Read 200242 times)

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #350 on: June 17, 2018, 10:16:17 PM »


Running with the idea that this is a man whose body is facing forward, shirtsleeves rolled up, arms folded, head turned a bit to the left...

How do we account for the visibility of the top of the radiator? Why does the man's untucked shirt seem to taper off at the bottom right (our right, that is)?

This is where it gets kind of interesting. A couple of years ago a researcher called Pat Speer got superb color photos of CE151 which many believe was the shirt Oswald wore to work that day. And guess what? It's cut in a curving pattern at the bottom sides. (Go to about a third of the way down the page at http://www.patspeer.com/chapter-4b-threads-of-evidence?tmpl=%2Fsystem%2Fapp%2Ftemplates%2Fprint%2F&showPrintDialog=1 and see for yourself)

Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #351 on: June 17, 2018, 10:39:11 PM »
Running with the idea that this is a man whose body is facing forward, shirtsleeves rolled up, arms folded, head turned a bit to the left...


Impossible by anatomy...Left upper arm too short for folded arms...You have no right to ignore the clearly see left arm/hand in the image...I've repeatedly explained to Parker that the left arm is not a reflection...If it were a reflection then the left cheek skin (which is even more apparent and has more surface area) would also reflect, yet we see no such reflection...



How do we account for the visibility of the top of the radiator? Why does the man's untucked shirt seem to taper off at the bottom right (our right, that is)?


       There is no way that any School Book Depository employee would stand in front of a presidential motorcade with his shirt hanging out...What you are correctly registering is Sarah's wide dress...

« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 11:16:45 PM by Brian Doyle »

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #351 on: June 17, 2018, 10:39:11 PM »


Online Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #352 on: June 17, 2018, 10:53:52 PM »


I really do find this image curious. If this is a person with their body turned a bit to the left (=southeast) then why are we seeing so much of the radiator behind the glass? I mean, nothing of the left leg...?! Just seems kind of off to me, like the lower body just curves away from under them...

Also the person's left hand/elbow seems unattached to an upper arm, as if it's hanging in midair or something...


Add the fact that the white of the neck is not below the chin and the thing just looks very odd indeed.


However if you stick a finger over the supposed 'left arm' it makes a new kind of sense as a man whose body is facing forward, whose arms are folded and whose head is turned a little to the left (=southeast).


I wonder might the drinking/eating/etc PrayerPerson in Wiegman have changed their posture by the time Darnell films them?

Admittedly, my take on what the posted image represents tends to differ somewhat than others. And, an intelligent, unfortunately now former, forum friend convinced me that photograph/film presents images of persons/objects, and not the actual person/object. For that reason, I tend to base image identification efforts upon that premise. That said, all images require interpretation, and sometimes image identification/interpretation is easily done, but sometimes not.

The posted image of the TexasSchoolBookDepository Elm St entrance appears to represent the scene within about one minute after the DealeyPlazaShooting that fatally wounded USP JohnKennedySr, and critically wounded TxG JohnConnallyJr, on 11/22/'63.

After reviewing statements/testimony by multiple eyewitnesses/occupants that indicated their presence on the stairs/landing at the time, I had to conclude that the aka PrayerPersonImage represents a female, most likely then TSBD Bldg employee SarahStanton. And, the same testimony indicates that LeeOswald is/was not among the landing/stairs occupants as filmed and/or during the shooting occurrence.

When viewing the PrayerPersonImage, it appears to represent someone stockier built and not as tall as LeeOswald. and, the person represented appears to be wearing a dress and/or long coat. Also, it is my interpretation that the person represented was filmed/photographed during a head turn due to conversation with another occupant relating to what had been witnessed by a returning area occupant. And, their is supporting testimony regarding said conversation..

 So, considering eyewitness testimony provides evidence that LeeOswald was not among the entrance landing/stairway at the time, and no reliable evidence places him there, for me it is a quite simple conclusion to reach that "evidently" he was not there.

« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 03:23:16 AM by Larry Trotter »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #353 on: June 18, 2018, 01:07:36 AM »


Care has to be taken when drawing conclusions from this gif (which Duncan posted) about what can be seen at the level of the top landing. This is because of the really frustrating fact that in the first few frames the (elderly?) woman wearing black coat and black scarf just in front of the steps is blocking the area of interest beneath PrayerPerson's body. We think we're getting a glimpse of the landing but that's only because the woman's neckline is at a height (for camera angle) on a level with the landing. After that of course the lady in white going up the steps blocks our view further.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #353 on: June 18, 2018, 01:07:36 AM »


Online Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #354 on: June 18, 2018, 03:58:21 AM »
 Telephone interview with Sarah Stanton's grand daughter and daughter in law...In it the grand daughter confirms her grand mother is Prayer Man...The daughter in law reveals an important new witnessing of Oswald being near the lunch room around the time of the shooting...The daughter in law confirms that Sarah asked Oswald "Are you going downstairs to go see the motorcade?" "Downstairs" had to be from the 2nd floor lunch room stairway landing:



             
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 04:13:32 AM by Brian Doyle »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #355 on: June 18, 2018, 11:04:05 AM »
Telephone interview with Sarah Stanton's grand daughter and daughter in law...In it the grand daughter confirms her grand mother is Prayer Man...The daughter in law reveals an important new witnessing of Oswald being near the lunch room around the time of the shooting...The daughter in law confirms that Sarah asked Oswald "Are you going downstairs to go see the motorcade?" "Downstairs" had to be from the 2nd floor lunch room stairway landing:



Thank you for posting this audio in full, Brian. I hope everyone here listens to it for it offers a truly shocking case study in how not to interview a witness.

You start by informing Sarah Stanton's sister-in-law that Sarah has been identified beyond doubt as PrayerPerson and then at repeated points throughout the interview feed her a relentless series of none too subtle cues as to the answers you wish to elicit from her. Anytime she says something you don't like, you telegraph your displeasure with a sceptical drawl of 'Alright, yeah...' and/or a correction based on your superior knowledge. Unfortunately for you, she just doesn't play ball. And that matters, because she (unlike Sarah's granddaughter) has primary memories of Sarah from the time of the assassination and they simply don't tally with the PrayerPerson image. Most damningly, Sarah Stanton had gray hair in 1963. PrayerPerson clearly doesn't. Sarah Stanton is not PrayerPerson. Period.

Another amusing point to emerge is that Sarah's granddaughter's sole reason for thinking PrayerPerson is Sarah is that you have shown her the Darnell frame and she, not being familiar with the crowded scene in Wiegman or with the fact that Pauline Sanders places Sarah beside her on the east side of the entrance, has identified her as the only large woman on the landing at the time of the shooting and therefore Sarah. Worthless.

And through it all you repeatedly inform both these women that the identification of Sarah as PrayerPerson is already a done deal!

It's worth mentioning that Sarah's sister-in-law includes a key detail that you have strangely omitted from your summary: when Sarah asked LHO near the second floor lunchroom if he was going down to watch the motorcade he told her that no, he was going back upstairs to the floor he had just been working on. 

You believe he stayed in the second floor lunchroom and went neither up nor down, I believe he changed his mind about going back upstairs and decided to go down to the front entrance for a look. But neither of us has the right to wish away what Sarah's sister-in-law says she heard from Sarah's own lips.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 11:18:32 AM by Alan Ford »

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #355 on: June 18, 2018, 11:04:05 AM »


Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #356 on: June 18, 2018, 02:18:15 PM »

Prayer Man cultist Alan is desperately going to bend this anyway he can to steer it away from the obvious...My earbud microphone and the children in the background kept me from fully absorbing what the daughter in law was saying...Around 6 minutes the daughter in law adds that Oswald told Sarah he was going back into the room...I wish I had caught that during the interview because it seems obvious to me that Oswald told Sarah he wasn't eating lunch but was going back in to the (break) room or 2nd floor lunch room that Sarah had obviously caught him in front of on the 2nd floor stairway landing as she was leaving the offices to go outside...Despite Alan's crass denial, at least he is conceding that this encounter happened in that location...The grand daughter told me by private message that she thought Sarah said she encountered Oswald in a break room...

Because of the difficulty of the conversation and medium I really should have commented to them that if Sarah was regularly recounting her witnessing Oswald by the stairs with a Coke on the way out of the building that she almost certainly volunteered this to the FBI in her interview since she would have no reason not to...The problem with people like Alan and their Prayer Man poison is they enter an excluding logic that is damaging to the normal thinking and follow-through that is usually practiced in good criminal detection...If you want to see a prime example of how not to process important evidence just look at what Alan offers...A person who really respected his readers and cared about correct interpretation would realize what we really have here is another proven case of FBI omitting important witnessing of Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room due to their awareness of its threat to the official story...This bolsters the veracity of Carolyn Arnold's witnessing of Oswald being in the lunch room because just like Sarah, they omitted Carolyn's witnessing in an identical manner...

I was slow on the uptake and response during this interview and upon re-listening and a night's sleep I realize at 13 minutes I should have told the daughter in law that Sarah's assuming Oswald had "gone back up by then" is the presumption of a person who did not see Oswald actually go back upstairs but just assumed he did after hearing the official story...It didn't dawn on me during the interview that the daughter in law's problematic wanting to send Oswald back upstairs almost certainly originates from Sarah's assumption that Oswald shot from the 6th floor and her incorporation of that in to her story...Sarah never saw where Oswald went after she left him on the stairway landing...

At 20:00 minutes the grand daughter confirms that she thought the woman's face in Davidson was "too pretty to be Sarah"...I had previously shown her the Davidson enhancement in e-mails...The interview had gotten a little off track at that point over the discussion of Sarah's weight...After confirming that she thought Davidson showed a woman the grand daughter then refers to Darnell and says there's no doubt the woman in Darnell is obese like Sarah..."Everybody is skinny in this except for her"...

If you look at the family photo I think Sarah is on a slope so therefore appears taller in comparison to the 6 foot 1 Larry her son...

The Prayer Man cult deliberately ignores how the daughter in law's strong memory of Sarah saying Oswald had a soda vastly increases the veracity of Jeraldean Reid and her witnessing...Please tell us again, Mr DiEugenio, how Baker crossed-out the Coke on his statement...And anybody who shows otherwise will be attacked, personally defamed in a low manner, and removed from the community...

« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 02:25:10 PM by Brian Doyle »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #357 on: June 18, 2018, 02:34:40 PM »
Prayer Man cultist Alan is desperately going to bend this anyway he can to steer it away from the obvious...My earbud microphone and the children in the background kept me from fully absorbing what the daughter in law was saying...Around 6 minutes the daughter in law adds that Oswald told Sarah he was going back into the room...I wish I had caught that during the interview because it seems obvious to me that Oswald told Sarah he wasn't eating lunch but was going back in to the (break) room or 2nd floor lunch room that Sarah had obviously caught him in front of on the 2nd floor stairway landing as she was leaving the offices to go outside...Despite Alan's crass denial, at least he is conceding that this encounter happened in that location...The grand daughter told me by private message that she thought Sarah said she encountered Oswald in a break room...

Because of the difficulty of the conversation and medium I really should have commented to them that if Sarah was regularly recounting her witnessing Oswald by the stairs with a Coke on the way out of the building that she almost certainly volunteered this to the FBI in her interview since she would have no reason not to...The problem with people like Alan and their Prayer Man poison is they enter an excluding logic that is damaging to the normal thinking and follow-through that is usually practiced in good criminal detection...If you want to see a prime example of how not to process important evidence just look at what Alan offers...A person who really respected his readers and cared about correct interpretation would realize what we really have here is another proven case of FBI omitting important witnessing of Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room due to their awareness of its threat to the official story...This bolsters the veracity of Carolyn Arnold's witnessing of Oswald being in the lunch room because just like Sarah, they omitted Carolyn's witnessing in an identical manner...

I was slow on the uptake and response during this interview and upon re-listening and a night's sleep I realize at 13 minutes I should have told the daughter in law that Sarah's assuming Oswald had "gone back up by then" is the presumption of a person who did not see Oswald actually go back upstairs but just assumed he did after hearing the official story...It didn't dawn on me during the interview that the daughter in law's problematic wanting to send Oswald back upstairs almost certainly originates from Sarah's assumption that Oswald shot from the 6th floor and her incorporation of that in to her story...Sarah never saw where Oswald went after she left him on the stairway landing...

At 20:00 minutes the grand daughter confirms that she thought the woman's face in Davidson was "too pretty to be Sarah"...I had previously shown her the Davidson enhancement in e-mails...The interview had gotten a little off track at that point over the discussion of Sarah's weight...After confirming that she thought Davidson showed a woman the grand daughter then refers to Darnell and says there's no doubt the woman in Darnell is obese like Sarah..."Everybody is skinny in this except for her"...

If you look at the family photo I think Sarah is on a slope so therefore appears taller in comparison to the 6 foot 1 Larry her son...

The Prayer Man cult deliberately ignores how the daughter in law's strong memory of Sarah saying Oswald had a soda vastly increases the veracity of Jeraldean Reid and her witnessing...Please tell us again, Mr DiEugenio, how Baker crossed-out the Coke on his statement...And anybody who shows otherwise will be attacked, personally defamed in a low manner, and removed from the community...

! Not a single word about the elephant in the room: Sarah Stanton had GRAY HAIR, PrayerPerson doesn't. Therefore Sarah Stanton cannot be PrayerPerson. Game over.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #357 on: June 18, 2018, 02:34:40 PM »


Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #358 on: June 18, 2018, 03:00:03 PM »


If you look at a close up of Prayer Man the folded arms claim is impossible by human anatomy...Greg Parker is a quack and incompetent...The folded arms claim comes from Greg looking at images and imagining things into them...

Meanwhile credible photo analysis would quickly show the left elbow and forearm of the imaginary folded arms tapers in a way that is impossible for human anatomy...An elbow cannot go from thick to skinny like the left arm on their folded arms does...You also can't hide hands like their folded arms require...Folded arms don't just cut-off like those the Prayer Man people are claiming...You would have to see a hand on their right arm but all you see is a suddenly cut off forearm...This is very sloppy photo analysis and laughable at a professional level...

When I show that Prayer Man's right wrist narrows beyond human anatomy it gets ignored...A wrist cannot go from thick to thin as much as Prayer Man's wrist does...What you are seeing there is Sarah Stanton's purse that her daughter in law said she carried jutting in front of her wrist...If it wasn't there you would clearly see Sarah's obese forearm going all the way to her hand and matching her fat forearm seen in the family photo...

This is the correct interpretation of Prayer Man's arm but it gets outright ignored by the Prayer Man cultists...

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #359 on: June 18, 2018, 03:06:28 PM »

If you look at a close up of Prayer Man the folded arms claim is impossible by human anatomy...Greg Parker is a quack and incompetent...The folded arms claim comes from Greg looking at images and imagining things into them...

Meanwhile credible photo analysis would quickly show the left elbow and forearm of the imaginary folded arms tapers in a way that is impossible for human anatomy...An elbow cannot go from thick to skinny like the left arm on their folded arms does...You also can't hide hands like their folded arms require...Folded arms don't just cut-off like those the Prayer Man people are claiming...You would have to see a hand on their right arm but all you see is a suddenly cut off forearm...This is very sloppy photo analysis and laughable at a professional level...

When I show that Prayer Man's right wrist narrows beyond human anatomy it gets ignored...A wrist cannot go from thick to thin as much as Prayer Man's wrist does...What you are seeing there is Sarah Stanton's purse that her daughter in law said she carried jutting in front of her wrist...If it wasn't there you would clearly see Sarah's obese forearm going all the way to her hand and matching her fat forearm seen in the family photo...

This is the correct interpretation of Prayer Man's arm but it gets outright ignored by the Prayer Man cultists...

Repeat after me, Brian: Sarah Stanton had gray hair. Prayer Person doesn't.

We know you know what a disaster this is to your theory because you even tried, without any success, to coax Sarah's sister-in-law into saying that Sarah dyed her hair in 1963!

Sarah Stanton had gray hair. Prayer Person doesn't.

 

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