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Author Topic: Prayer Woman  (Read 226680 times)

Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #280 on: June 16, 2018, 01:42:40 AM »
In the full appearance Frazier first mentions Sarah here and twice in the same sentence he motions to his left with his hand, game on.
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5.29 into this for the link deprived.

Was he asked which side she was on? No, but would it even matter since we have to rely on this old man's memory?
Frazier would have to pay me to go listen to him live.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #280 on: June 16, 2018, 01:42:40 AM »

Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #281 on: June 16, 2018, 03:05:04 AM »
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Sure Barry very sincere...You are ignoring that Couch/Darnell shows us the reality of Frazier being up on the landing and looking directly at Prayer Man...Your posts tend to ignore the best evidence and focus of diversionary trivialities...Meanwhile the thread contains enough information to show Prayer Man is the 5 foot 5 Stanton's relatives said she was in height...Prayer Man has Stanton's chubby forearm...Prayer Man has Stanton's wide hips...

Frazier is looking at Prayer Man...He is not looking at the person to his left who could be Molina...

You are ignoring the timing involved with Calvery's being identified at the bottom of the steps...It means Frazier has to be communicating with Stanton at that moment...Couch/Darnell clearly shows him looking at Prayer Man at that instant...

Anyone can tell I was just talking about what Frazier said in the video you linked to, not what I believe is true.
I don't think he's looking directly at PM but at the females coming up the steps...
No one saw a chubby forearm until you found a picture of a plump Stanton, I can't even tell if it's a bare arm or sleeved in Darnell, the Stanton image does not compute with PM for me in any single way, if that's really her in the sixties you've ruled her out.
I don't see wide hips, I see a slim masculine looking figure, hands that match and in a loose fitting shirt.
There is no way you can tell what Frazier is doing in Darnell, like if he's talking or even paying attention to anything, or if he heard shots or why he was so suprised after alledgedly hearing shots to then learn that someone was hit. Very slow. very, very high or he heard nothing that unusual.
PM and Frazier were not standing together, he and the person to his left were.

Sure the Calvery thing could be correct, could be her, she could be in the act of telling those on the steps that JFK was hit but it has nothing to do with  who PM is for me since I don't trust the memories of witnesses to paint pictures for me.
You know why BWF claims that after hearing shooting or hearing about it, that his first thought was to stand still?  Because someone has shown him image from Darnell of him doing exactly that, arms folded and unmoved, still in the same spot he watched the motorcade from. It needs explaining, that was his version, I have my own.

You only saw a fat arm after new external evidence was presented, never before, not once, now however that's all you can see and you expect everyone else to see it too otherwise they're "ignoring real new evidence", it's very childlike, I don't see it, I see you promoting an anyone but Oswald agenda and I would never let you anywhere near a witness because of this clear lack of impartiality.

Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #282 on: June 16, 2018, 04:42:39 AM »
Nice try Barry but the time period Frazier refers to at the 5 minute mark is well before Wiegman when the JFK limousine passes by the front steps...Wiegman gives a good look at where you would have Stanton in your scenario and there was nobody there...

Prayer Man is seen in the same spot by the west side of the portal in Wiegman...Frazier is further back into the shadows behind Lovelady in Wiegman but basically in the same spot...Wiegman is using different film and equipment so his images of the portal occupants are less defined in the shade areas...

Very simply Frazier and Prayer Man are pretty much in the same spot in Wiegman and there is no one to Frazier's left...

The people who are to Frazier's left are seen in Altgens and Sarah Stanton is not one of them...

Your submission doesn't really answer that Frazier is facing Prayer Man at a time when the Calvery timing establishes he is communicating with Sarah...

Prayer Man is Stanton's 5 foot 5 in height...

Meanwhile if you go to 40:52 and watch Frazier's body language he makes two clear gestures to his right towards where Prayer Man was when referring to his communicating with Sarah...
 
When Frazier says he was standing in front of the first step he is talking about the edge of the landing... This is proven by the fact Frazier goes from talking about being by the first step and hearing Calvery to being on the landing with Sarah when he reacted to encountering Calvery by that step...

"We looked at one another" - Frazier looks right toward Prayer Man...
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 05:07:29 AM by Brian Doyle »

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #282 on: June 16, 2018, 04:42:39 AM »

Offline Duncan MacRae

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #283 on: June 16, 2018, 11:32:39 AM »
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In the full appearance Frazier first mentions Sarah here and twice in the same sentence he motions to his left with his hand, game on.

Can you explain the relevance, Barry?

Frazier's comment at around 5.29 in the video which you refer to is a conversation he had with Sarah BEFORE the assassination had started, which in my opinion is not relevant to the debated images of the Prayer Person's location which are scenes filmed AFTER the shooting has finished.
Or am I missing something?

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #284 on: June 16, 2018, 01:33:53 PM »
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In the full appearance Frazier first mentions Sarah here and twice in the same sentence he motions to his left with his hand, game on.
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5.29 into this for the link deprived.


This is a great catch Barry. Frazier is talking about the point when he caught his first sight of JFK and Jackie as the limousine came on to Elm Street. He recalls having remarked to Sarah Stanton how beautiful Jackie looks. Twice he involuntarily motions with his left hand, including on the words 'the lady that was standing beside me'.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #284 on: June 16, 2018, 01:33:53 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #285 on: June 16, 2018, 01:54:47 PM »


The more I look at this image the more I wonder...

Is PrayerPerson a slim man with his body facing forward (=south), his arms folded and his head turned a good bit to the left?

One giveaway here would be the white 'V' of his open shirt collar, which is not directly under his chin.


Place your finger over his supposed 'left arm/hand' (=the 'arm/hand' we see to his right as we look at the image) and you should see what I mean. Takes a bit of getting used to seeing as we've been thinking of this figure as 'Prayer Wo/Man' for so long.


I think that 'left arm/hand' may actually be something he's clutching in his right hand, which is tucked under his left elbow. This something (paper bag? newspaper?) is sticking out from the left side of his body.

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #286 on: June 16, 2018, 03:39:47 PM »
There's been a suggestion on this thread that because Sarah Stanton said the limousine went out of her view as it went down Elm Street this places her west of the entrance railing. Not true. Otis Williams was east of the railing and he told Larry Sneed in No More Silence:

I had a clear view as it passed by of the President and all in the car, and then it went behind a little wall going toward the underpass ... I didn't actually see the President hit as he went behind that little wall.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #286 on: June 16, 2018, 03:39:47 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #287 on: June 16, 2018, 03:49:19 PM »
There's been a suggestion on this thread that Sarah Stanton seeing LHO near the second floor lunchroom before the shooting somehow destroys the whole LHO = PM theory. Not true. The original theory on the Education forum thread was BASED on LHO visiting the lunchroom for a coke before the shooting and not after it. The story Carolyn Arnold told Anthony Summers in 1978 about seeing LHO in the lunchroom was 100% believed. If Stanton told family members she saw Oswald up there before the shooting, then that only strengthens the idea that the interrogation reports put words in LHO's mouth. He never said anything to Will Fritz about going up to the second floor for a coke AFTER the shooting.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #287 on: June 16, 2018, 03:49:19 PM »

Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #288 on: June 16, 2018, 04:00:16 PM »
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Is PrayerPerson a slim man with his body facing forward (=south), his arms folded and his head turned a good bit to the left?


Only a person who was purely ignorant of the evidence would suggest it...Duncan posted a GIF of the Prayer Man images a few pages back and it shows a woman who is facing Frazier holding her purse in front of her with both hands...The corner of the purse is making a notch in Sarah's right wrist...

Prayer Man's hips are very wide so anyone suggesting "he" is slim lacks photo analysis skill...Sarah Stanton has wide whips by the way...Jake Sykes made an avatar with Oswald overlapped on to Prayer Man and Oswald only takes up 2/3rd's of Prayer Man's girth...ROKC didn't even notice that Sykes' avatar refuted Oswald as Prayer Man...

This is made even more clear when a stabilized clip of both Wiegman and Darnell is shown of Prayer Man and "his" pivot towards Frazier...The pivot is Sarah Stanton turning towards Frazier to discuss what Calvery had said...

After the 40:52 mark in the video Frazier makes a very detectable lean towards his right when discussing his interaction with Sarah...He also turns his head and eyes slightly right when remembering looking at Sarah...There's no doubt Sarah is Prayer Man because the Darnell scene is the exact moment he describes as the time when he was interacting with Sarah over Calvery's information...

Alan Ford and Barry just outright ignore that Prayer Man is 5 foot 5 in height - which happens to be Sarah Stanton's height...You can review my posting over the years on Prayer Man...I have been saying for several years that Prayer Man is 5 foot 5 when compared to Frazier and that if we ever found her relatives they would confirm that Sarah was also 5 foot 5...They did...


         

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #289 on: June 16, 2018, 04:17:46 PM »
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After the 40:52 mark in the video Frazier makes a very detectable lean towards his right when discussing his interaction with Sarah...He also turns his head and eyes slightly right when remembering looking at Sarah...


Yes, but he's talking about an interaction with Sarah down at the bottom of the steps. Why did you leave this detail out? Do you lack quotation analysis skills?

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #289 on: June 16, 2018, 04:17:46 PM »

 

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