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Author Topic: Prayer Woman  (Read 200280 times)

Online Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #290 on: June 15, 2018, 10:32:09 PM »
A thread hijack is occurring here where the video I posted in post #281 on page 29 is being ignored...

In that video Frazier makes clear that he and Sarah were standing deepest in to the shadows in the portal when Calvery ran up to the steps...One look at the Darnell frame image shown on the cover shot for the video shows Frazier and Prayer Man being the two persons deepest in to the shadows in the portal...

In the video Frazier describes in detail how he was talking to Sarah when Calvery came up crying...In his Garrison Trial testimony Frazier went into even more detail explaining that Calvery was shouting "The president has been shot" on her way to the steps...Frazier said he didn't hear Calvery so he asked "Sarah" what she had said...Sarah answered "I think she said the president has been shot"...With this detailed we have to then ask where and when this happened exactly?

One look at the Couch/Darnell film shows Gloria Calvery at the base of the steps...Shelley & Lovelady have already spoken to Calvery at the steps and are on their way up the extension...This means we can safely determine the timing seen in Couch/Darnell is several seconds after Calvery has imparted her information and Frazier is in the process of communicating with "Sarah" about it...Couch/Darnell shows Frazier focused on Prayer Man so therefore Prayer Man is Stanton...Prayer Man is 5 foot 5 inches in height...The same height as Sarah Stanton as confirmed by her daughter in law...

 

Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #291 on: June 15, 2018, 11:01:15 PM »
A thread hijack is occurring here where the video I posted in post #281 on page 29 is being ignored...

In that video Frazier makes clear that he and Sarah were standing deepest in to the shadows in the portal when Calvery ran up to the steps...One look at the Darnell frame image shown on the cover shot for the video shows Frazier and Prayer Man being the two persons deepest in to the shadows in the portal...

You're telling us...?! Thumb1:
I just mentioned this an hour ago.
On that video Frasier said he went down before the crying woman came up, how is that "making it clear"? There's also another person right next to him on his left who remains unidentified.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #291 on: June 15, 2018, 11:01:15 PM »


Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #292 on: June 15, 2018, 11:12:43 PM »
Brian, does Stanton have grey hair in that photo you shared or blond? I assumed it was grey. I also assumed it to be a woman in her early sixties... how old does she look to you?
If this was from 1962-64 she would be 40-42yo, that seems very unlikely to me, being big-boned doesn't put age on your face like that but if she's blond that might change my perception a tad.

Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #293 on: June 15, 2018, 11:32:08 PM »
On that video Frasier said he went down before the crying woman came up, how is that "making it clear"? There's also another person right next to him on his left who remains unidentified.
Sure Barry very sincere...You are ignoring that Couch/Darnell shows us the reality of Frazier being up on the landing and looking directly at Prayer Man...Your posts tend to ignore the best evidence and focus of diversionary trivialities...Meanwhile the thread contains enough information to show Prayer Man is the 5 foot 5 Stanton's relatives said she was in height...Prayer Man has Stanton's chubby forearm...Prayer Man has Stanton's wide hips...

Frazier is looking at Prayer Man...He is not looking at the person to his left who could be Molina...

You are ignoring the timing involved with Calvery's being identified at the bottom of the steps...It means Frazier has to be communicating with Stanton at that moment...Couch/Darnell clearly shows him looking at Prayer Man at that instant...

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #293 on: June 15, 2018, 11:32:08 PM »


Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #294 on: June 16, 2018, 01:42:40 AM »
In the full appearance Frazier first mentions Sarah here and twice in the same sentence he motions to his left with his hand, game on.
https://youtu.be/61woNu98rlM?t=5m29s

5.29 into this for the link deprived.

Was he asked which side she was on? No, but would it even matter since we have to rely on this old man's memory?
Frazier would have to pay me to go listen to him live.

Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #295 on: June 16, 2018, 03:05:04 AM »

Sure Barry very sincere...You are ignoring that Couch/Darnell shows us the reality of Frazier being up on the landing and looking directly at Prayer Man...Your posts tend to ignore the best evidence and focus of diversionary trivialities...Meanwhile the thread contains enough information to show Prayer Man is the 5 foot 5 Stanton's relatives said she was in height...Prayer Man has Stanton's chubby forearm...Prayer Man has Stanton's wide hips...

Frazier is looking at Prayer Man...He is not looking at the person to his left who could be Molina...

You are ignoring the timing involved with Calvery's being identified at the bottom of the steps...It means Frazier has to be communicating with Stanton at that moment...Couch/Darnell clearly shows him looking at Prayer Man at that instant...

Anyone can tell I was just talking about what Frazier said in the video you linked to, not what I believe is true.
I don't think he's looking directly at PM but at the females coming up the steps...
No one saw a chubby forearm until you found a picture of a plump Stanton, I can't even tell if it's a bare arm or sleeved in Darnell, the Stanton image does not compute with PM for me in any single way, if that's really her in the sixties you've ruled her out.
I don't see wide hips, I see a slim masculine looking figure, hands that match and in a loose fitting shirt.
There is no way you can tell what Frazier is doing in Darnell, like if he's talking or even paying attention to anything, or if he heard shots or why he was so suprised after alledgedly hearing shots to then learn that someone was hit. Very slow. very, very high or he heard nothing that unusual.
PM and Frazier were not standing together, he and the person to his left were.

Sure the Calvery thing could be correct, could be her, she could be in the act of telling those on the steps that JFK was hit but it has nothing to do with  who PM is for me since I don't trust the memories of witnesses to paint pictures for me.
You know why BWF claims that after hearing shooting or hearing about it, that his first thought was to stand still?  Because someone has shown him image from Darnell of him doing exactly that, arms folded and unmoved, still in the same spot he watched the motorcade from. It needs explaining, that was his version, I have my own.

You only saw a fat arm after new external evidence was presented, never before, not once, now however that's all you can see and you expect everyone else to see it too otherwise they're "ignoring real new evidence", it's very childlike, I don't see it, I see you promoting an anyone but Oswald agenda and I would never let you anywhere near a witness because of this clear lack of impartiality.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #295 on: June 16, 2018, 03:05:04 AM »


Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #296 on: June 16, 2018, 04:42:39 AM »
Nice try Barry but the time period Frazier refers to at the 5 minute mark is well before Wiegman when the JFK limousine passes by the front steps...Wiegman gives a good look at where you would have Stanton in your scenario and there was nobody there...

Prayer Man is seen in the same spot by the west side of the portal in Wiegman...Frazier is further back into the shadows behind Lovelady in Wiegman but basically in the same spot...Wiegman is using different film and equipment so his images of the portal occupants are less defined in the shade areas...

Very simply Frazier and Prayer Man are pretty much in the same spot in Wiegman and there is no one to Frazier's left...

The people who are to Frazier's left are seen in Altgens and Sarah Stanton is not one of them...

Your submission doesn't really answer that Frazier is facing Prayer Man at a time when the Calvery timing establishes he is communicating with Sarah...

Prayer Man is Stanton's 5 foot 5 in height...

Meanwhile if you go to 40:52 and watch Frazier's body language he makes two clear gestures to his right towards where Prayer Man was when referring to his communicating with Sarah...
 
When Frazier says he was standing in front of the first step he is talking about the edge of the landing... This is proven by the fact Frazier goes from talking about being by the first step and hearing Calvery to being on the landing with Sarah when he reacted to encountering Calvery by that step...

"We looked at one another" - Frazier looks right toward Prayer Man...
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 05:07:29 AM by Brian Doyle »

Offline Duncan MacRae

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #297 on: June 16, 2018, 11:32:39 AM »
In the full appearance Frazier first mentions Sarah here and twice in the same sentence he motions to his left with his hand, game on.

Can you explain the relevance, Barry?

Frazier's comment at around 5.29 in the video which you refer to is a conversation he had with Sarah BEFORE the assassination had started, which in my opinion is not relevant to the debated images of the Prayer Person's location which are scenes filmed AFTER the shooting has finished.
Or am I missing something?

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #297 on: June 16, 2018, 11:32:39 AM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #298 on: June 16, 2018, 01:33:53 PM »
In the full appearance Frazier first mentions Sarah here and twice in the same sentence he motions to his left with his hand, game on.
https://youtu.be/61woNu98rlM?t=5m29s

5.29 into this for the link deprived.


This is a great catch Barry. Frazier is talking about the point when he caught his first sight of JFK and Jackie as the limousine came on to Elm Street. He recalls having remarked to Sarah Stanton how beautiful Jackie looks. Twice he involuntarily motions with his left hand, including on the words 'the lady that was standing beside me'.

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #299 on: June 16, 2018, 01:54:47 PM »


The more I look at this image the more I wonder...

Is PrayerPerson a slim man with his body facing forward (=south), his arms folded and his head turned a good bit to the left?

One giveaway here would be the white 'V' of his open shirt collar, which is not directly under his chin.


Place your finger over his supposed 'left arm/hand' (=the 'arm/hand' we see to his right as we look at the image) and you should see what I mean. Takes a bit of getting used to seeing as we've been thinking of this figure as 'Prayer Wo/Man' for so long.


I think that 'left arm/hand' may actually be something he's clutching in his right hand, which is tucked under his left elbow. This something (paper bag? newspaper?) is sticking out from the left side of his body.

 

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