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Author Topic: Prayer Woman  (Read 229258 times)

Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #220 on: June 07, 2018, 05:30:00 PM »
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Brian, I just wanted to reply to you again here.

Yes, I agree with you that the PM tale is infuriating because it muddles the JFK conspiracy narrative.  But there are plenty of others out there as well.  As a matter of fact, there is supposedly one coming out this year and it's by the scam artist David Lifton. I'm not afraid to call him that because that's what he is.  His so-called Best Evidence is nothing but a bunch of baloney and even worst, his new theory to further prove his body alteration theory is to...get this...state that Dr. Perry, who we all know cut into Kennedy's throat to try to save his life, did NOT cut into Kennedy's throat. In other words, the cut you see in the autopsy photos was done before the autopsy actually began.

And his "evidence" to prove this is:

A sound glitch on a Perry TV interview has been blown out of proportion; and
Bob Groden said Perry told him

And that's all.

I called him out over and over again and the last time I did so (you can read it here - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) I got permanently banned over on EF.

So yeah, PM is ridiculous but what else is there to say, Brian?  It's pretty much petering out. But to think that Lifton's Thrumming Copter and Scalpels at the Ready theory may get the crazies lathered up with the *gasp ALL NEW FURTHER PROOF OF BODY ALTERATION* should be vigorously debated and called out. Perhaps if you redirected your obsession to this one, this would bring attention to his scam theory.


The JFK research community has become so corrupted that it literally ignores the image of Sarah Stanton and how it relates to the Prayer Man evidence...Sorry Michael but you can't tacitly admit that my evidence is good and then denigrate it as "obsession"...If you are correct then the obsession is not from your side...The obsession is from the side of persons who are so dedicated to forcing their now-disproven evidence that they are willing to ignore breakthrough evidence and keep it from their websites in order to avoid admitting what it shows...The only obsession here is that of people who are flagrantly ignoring correct evidence in order not to admit they were wrong and therefore not the credible researchers they force others to accept with bullying...

Recently I have provided irrefutable proof that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...Stanton's daughter confirmed her mother's 5 foot 5 height...Prayer Man is 5 foot 5 when compared to Frazier...Photo analysis will show that the visibly thick forearm on Prayer Man that even Jim DiEugenio admitted he saw is case closed proof that Prayer Man is Stanton...One look at the family photo sent to me by Wanda (her grand daughter) shows beyond a doubt that the fat arm seen in that photo matches the thick arm seen on Prayer Man in Darnell...The Prayer Man people literally are not interested in correct evidence and are still trying to force their already-disproven crap right in the face of this final proof...

The moderation at the other two JFK research forums needs to be changed...The membership is filtered through a restricting bottle neck that damages the quality of the site by deliberately removing certain voices by means of false charges...This is a moderation problem...Exaggerated demands for politeness are being used to filter certain posters and opinions...It is clear to me that manners and posting style are stressed to a degree that matches the ineptitude of that moderation to oversee the material...The more the moderation is unable to understand intelligent evidence the more they stress manners...A lowest common denominator is being enforced at the expense of community integrity...Andre Stancak is allowed to mock those who say the average human head is 7 inches while the moderator ignores that Andrej himself was claiming Prayer Man's head was 7 inches just a few posts prior...The moderation has destroyed the credibility of that forum, but as the moderation said "if you don't like it find another website"...A credible community would do exactly that only the 95% of that community that fell for the Prayer Man theory find it beneficial to look the other way when those who present the correct evidence are railroaded by an incompetent bully moderator...Andrej completely ignored that latest proof in the form of Sarah's photo...The credibility of the research community has been brought down to the 12 year old level if they are ignoring evidence...

David Josephs told me he would respond to any correct evidence I posted on Prayer Man...He lied...When I posted this latest photo and evidence he ignored it...

Sorry Michael but as far as Lifton goes I am a strong supporter of his work...Because Jim DiEugenio has a flock of unskilled lackeys who support him no matter what (like Lauren Johnson) he is allowed to attack the person who probably brought the best evidence of all conspiracy researchers...Lifton's discoveries really crack the case...He proved there were two deliveries of caskets to Bethesda and therefore a switcho-changeo where a covert pre-autopsy was done...Because the community lacks competent detective skill it follows DiEugenio like a pack of slack-jawed dummies who simply accept anything he posts...They allow Jim to betray his own research ethic and the community by attacking Lifton...The reason Lifton is so important is because his discovery showed that Commander Pitzer had accidentally filmed the covert pre-autopsy with remote filming equipment and captured evidence of the original wounds...What was my reward for finally putting together the best case-cracking evidence of a conspiracy in my interpretation of Pitzer's discovery? I was banned by two idiot moderators who were just doing their job of tending to DiEugenio as his embarrassing servants knowing they would get away with that because of the fealty to Jim shown by the CT community...Two moderators who have no skill of their own in analyzing evidence and no record of doing so on the internet were allowed to take down the person who cracked the case in order to preserve their power and egos (and clique)...While the rest of the community stares at this evidence like dumb livestock and moderators boast that they are quite happy at the way the community is presently running...A narrow bottle neck gate-kept by two highly uncredible personalities in order to preserve their own power at the expense of the community...

It is not petering out...It has been turned in to a cult where intellectual criminals have hijacked the entire community and are outright censoring the best and brightest so they can dominate with their bully mob...Jim uses this mob to snuff out anyone who disagrees with him... The moderators pose as the victims but they are the aggressors...
« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 04:01:04 PM by Brian Doyle »

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #220 on: June 07, 2018, 05:30:00 PM »

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #221 on: June 08, 2018, 04:11:58 AM »
I still think that Prayer man was Fat Clemenza.  :)

Offline Michael Walton

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #222 on: June 08, 2018, 09:22:45 PM »
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Sorry Michael but as far as Lifton goes I am a strong supporter of his work...


So let me get this straight, Brian. You have no problem at all obsessively talking about the crazy PM theory (which I happen to agree with you about). Yet, on the flip side, you *support* a fantastical and phony story about squirreling the body away and altering it?  In other words...

We're expected to believe that around crying people, passersby and news cameras that when the body left PMH that the Bad Guys squirreled away the body either at Love Field or some other undisclosed location, took the body out of the coffin and threw it into the cargo hold, then snuck it out the back door of 26000 and onto a helicopter, in full view of live TV cameras, family members, and others upon arriving at Andrews? I mean...really, Brian?  Do YOU believe in a fantastical story like this?

Knowing what I know, to believe that makes me definitely doubt one's credibility when they're rebutting one crazy theory but actually *supporting* a ridiculous one like that.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #222 on: June 08, 2018, 09:22:45 PM »

Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #223 on: June 08, 2018, 11:22:38 PM »
Sarah Stanton's daughter in law just told me that Sarah told her that she ran in to Lee Harvey Oswald in a break room just prior to going out to the steps... The grand daughter Wanda said: "people were going out to watch and he (Oswald) was waiting at the stairs with a soda...she asked are you going to lunch and he answered just a soda...she said he was a very quiet man that he didnt talk to anyone...she left to go outside and he went ?upstairs?? thats it. hope this helps." Since it is very unlikely that 2nd floor office worker Sarah Stanton saw Oswald in the worker's 1st floor domino room away from the stairs in the Northeast corner of the Depository that means we have a second witness beside Carolyn Arnold who saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room with a Coke just prior to going out to watch the motorcade...
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 11:09:24 PM by Brian Doyle »

Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #224 on: June 09, 2018, 11:43:47 AM »
Hi Michael,
you made a rather sensible statement on the EF, rather than getting involved in the speculation you wrote;
"Does all this matter? The guy[PM] could be LHO but we'll never know until a better copy of the film is found".

Now has your opinion really changed or are you just bored of the endless and mostly fruitless talk?
I agree with what you wrote there, even though the odds are extreemly thin for it but that's just based on all the other observations in the photographic evidence that have amounted to nought(you know, gunmen and shadowy figures who turn out to be innocents or figments of imagination, discrepancies in the films etc) and not where LHO "has to be".
Someone else says "it's not just about the images" but I dissagree, either it's him or it's not and it looks enough like him to maintain my interest for now.
When there's true "reliable evidence" against it, like proving he's a she or that it's stood on the landing then I'll move on but there's more here that interests me than just the Oswald angle, some people's idea of what real evidence is an endless source of wonder and interesting speculation is what we're all here for.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #224 on: June 09, 2018, 11:43:47 AM »

Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #225 on: June 09, 2018, 11:52:26 AM »
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This or the next frame are the bestuns.
Need help finding her?

Found her in a gif.

On the left at the last second, looks then turns toward the building, could be her.

Offline Patrick Jackson

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #226 on: June 09, 2018, 11:52:40 AM »
Prayer Person could not be Sarah Stanton since she had a distinctive black hat.
Prayer Person was Pauline Sanders most likely. She was mature and old enough to understand not to force that LHO was on front steps and she never testified in front of Warren Commission. I am also researching Doris Burns.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #226 on: June 09, 2018, 11:52:40 AM »

Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #227 on: June 09, 2018, 12:24:24 PM »
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Sarah Stanton's daughter just told me that Sarah told her that she ran in to Lee Harvey Oswald in a break room just prior to going out to the steps... The grand daughter Wanda said: "people were going out to watch and he (Oswald) was waiting at the stairs with a soda...she asked are you going to lunch and he answered just a soda...she said he was a very quiet man that he didnt talk to anyone...she left to go outside and he went ?upstairs?? thats it. hope this helps." Since it is very unlikely that 2nd floor office worker Sarah Stanton saw Oswald in the worker's 1st floor domino room away from the stairs in the Northeast corner of the Depository that means we have a second witness beside Carolyn Arnold who saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room with a Coke just prior to going out to watch the motorcade...

Not even secondhand but coming through you that's three people we have to trust, it doesn't work for me but did you at least get it "on tape"?

I'd ask for more photos not hearsay and also whether her son ever visited his mother for lunch perhaps even on that day because of the parade(PM looks more like him that her in that image she shared with you and he's in her position but why would you do that when you already know it's her?), is that her uncle then, is he still around, can you contact him, he would be the one to ask that to but subtle like.
Also I admire the way you reach out(and haven't I remained respectful toward you? That's no front) but I have to wonder if your questions might be influencing these people.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #227 on: June 09, 2018, 12:24:24 PM »

Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #228 on: June 09, 2018, 12:45:04 PM »
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Prayer Person could not be Sarah Stanton since she had a distinctive black hat.
Prayer Person was Pauline Sanders most likely. She was mature and old enough to understand not to force that LHO was on front steps and she never testified in front of Warren Commission. I am also researching Doris Burns.

Hi Patrick.
The odd hat gal next to Maddie Resse has been named elsewhere as Ruth Dean.

But whether this comes from document research or photographic I have no idea but I suspect the former.
Where did you learn it was Stanton? Perhaps the two sources are actually the same after a change of heart.

Offline Michael Walton

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #229 on: June 09, 2018, 02:38:17 PM »
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Hi Michael,
you made a rather sensible statement on the EF, rather than getting involved in the speculation you wrote;
"Does all this matter? The guy[PM] could be LHO but we'll never know until a better copy of the film is found".

Now has your opinion really changed or are you just bored of the endless and mostly fruitless talk?
I agree with what you wrote there, even though the odds are extreemly thin for it but that's just based on all the other observations in the photographic evidence that have amounted to nought(you know, gunmen and shadowy figures who turn out to be innocents or figments of imagination, discrepancies in the films etc) and not where LHO "has to be".
Someone else says "it's not just about the images" but I dissagree, either it's him or it's not and it looks enough like him to maintain my interest for now.
When there's true "reliable evidence" against it, like proving he's a she or that it's stood on the landing then I'll move on but there's more here that interests me than just the Oswald angle, some people's idea of what real evidence is an endless source of wonder and interesting speculation is what we're all here for.

Barry, thanks for your reply.  Sometimes in my zeal to reveal what really happen that day, I *want* to believe anything to prove the conspiracy.  Then I have to calm down and take a step back.  Yes, I used to believe it was Oswald. But now I don't think it is and on EF I also said this:

"And no one seems to ask themselves the significant question because if they do, it will put doubt in their mind.  That question is:
If the plan was to murder Kennedy and set up Oswald to be the patsy, WHY would they allow their patsy to be out there during  these critical moments, risking the whole conspiracy? The planners knew that there was going to be cameras outside during the parade.  They most certainly wouldn't want the person they had set up to take the blame for the murder to be anywhere NEAR these cameras.
Of course, Andrej, Bart and John will totally ignore this because you DO have to take this into consideration, but instead they prefer to just ignore it and go on with their conspiracy belief that it's Oswald up there seconds after the shooting."

Doyle, of course, calls this "blather" but it's really not. So what does that tell you? It tells me that Doyle, like a rabid dog with teeth clenched deeply into someone's leg, cannot think of totally differing ideas about this. It's all Sarah Stanton, all the time.  So yes, regarding that, it's boring to keep reading about it when there are other more important things about this case to focus on.  The Dave Lifton xxxxxxxx is one of them.

And yes, I also said what you quoted me on about we'll never know until some pristine frame of that footage comes along and proves it's him or not. Believe me I want it to be him but as I explained above, if all that has been written about regarding the conspiracy is true (the patsy set up) I just cannot imagine them dropping the ball on that and not prepping him to stay inside until the deed was done.

Put another way, Doyle is just pissed because he got banned from EF.  That's all it boils down to.  I've been banned too but I've moved on, posting here and there on this forum.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #229 on: June 09, 2018, 02:38:17 PM »

 

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