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Offline Mark A. Oblazney

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #150 on: May 18, 2018, 03:22:09 PM »
it was a dude taking pictures with a camera, methinx

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #150 on: May 18, 2018, 03:22:09 PM »


Offline Denis Morissette

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #151 on: May 19, 2018, 04:48:35 AM »
If you want to correctly label correctly label one or more ladies, you may want to order photos of the Westbrook Collection at the 6FM. Photos show Karen with several of her colleagues.

Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #152 on: May 20, 2018, 11:23:57 AM »
Barry, again, this thread is named " "PrayerWoman", and so named as a discussion about who is represented by the PrayerPersonImage.
This thread is not about SamHolland, or about the TripleUnderpass occupants.
The eyewitnesses/occupants of the TSBD Building Elm St entrance landing/stairs would have information about the other occupants, and SamHolland and other TU occupants would not be likely to be able to provide information about occupants of the entrance stairs/landing.
Quite simple to me. And, for what reason for me to "need examples nearer to PM"? Who are the "many out there from those that believe LHO=PM, including their motivation and inspiration for looking at it so closely"? What does that mean?
As often stated, I indicate my conclusions, and you can do the same. Just state your case. However, the actual facts may differ, so I can deal with that. But, you have not provided any said facts.
In any event Barry, I have answered your questions, so I would hope that you do not keep asking the same, but reworded, questions.


But, I do wonder, as I wander, what your reasoning is for believing the"many out there from those that believe LHO=PM",and not agreeing with the many, yes many, that cannot, and do not, believe the LHO is PrayerManTheory?
For the record, I am among the many that conclude the PrayerPersonImage represents a female then employed at the TSBD Bldg, who went to the entrance stairs/landing area to view the JFK Sr motorcade, that included FL JBK, along with TG JBC Jr and FL IBC in the limousine.


You made it about witnesses here Larry, so I gave you my best example of a false witness in this case and I could have chosen a witness from any case I wanted and still be on topic, if you believe otherwise then please explain why. If I had decent footage of anyone on the steps during or immeadiatly after the shooting, I'm sure I'd have used that instead.

Here's what you haven't answered, why do you put so much faith in what witnesses said? I don't get it. Can you give me even one single example of a witness who is provably correct about anything significant in the plaza? How about some professional research that tells us to trust eyewitnesses? Anything.

Also, another you have yet to answer, since you don't trust "the enhancements" do you think PM actually looks like a woman? How/why?

If PM assumed his position just as the motorcade turned onto Houston, which witness would have noticed him?

I said if you need examples of poor witnesses nearer to PM then just search the web for research on the PM issue, also you wrote earlier that you could find no reason for wanting to put PM on the top step instead of the landing, the inspiration for that lies in the same place, on the web from the PM crowd. Your asking questions in a place where there are no real PM advocates getting involved.

My "belief" is that they are correct to question the trust put in these witnesses and I tend to agree that the "evidence" suggesting it's a woman is extreemly weak, the weakest argument against the whole issue. As for the other side, well I would guess that about 95% of them believe that Oswald has to be still upstairs on the sixth floor, can you figure out what their motivation is Larry and why I tend not to agree with them most of the time(but all the time, where did I say that?) Where do you yourself have Lee btw and can you give me one single fact based reason why it can't be him?

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #152 on: May 20, 2018, 11:23:57 AM »


Offline Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #153 on: May 20, 2018, 06:57:05 PM »
You made it about witnesses here Larry, so I gave you my best example of a false witness in this case and I could have chosen a witness from any case I wanted and still be on topic, if you believe otherwise then please explain why. If I had decent footage of anyone on the steps during or immeadiatly after the shooting, I'm sure I'd have used that instead.

Here's what you haven't answered, why do you put so much faith in what witnesses said? I don't get it. Can you give me even one single example of a witness who is provably correct about anything significant in the plaza? How about some professional research that tells us to trust eyewitnesses? Anything.

Also, another you have yet to answer, since you don't trust "the enhancements" do you think PM actually looks like a woman? How/why?

If PM assumed his position just as the motorcade turned onto Houston, which witness would have noticed him?

I said if you need examples of poor witnesses nearer to PM then just search the web for research on the PM issue, also you wrote earlier that you could find no reason for wanting to put PM on the top step instead of the landing, the inspiration for that lies in the same place, on the web from the PM crowd. Your asking questions in a place where there are no real PM advocates getting involved.

My "belief" is that they are correct to question the trust put in these witnesses and I tend to agree that the "evidence" suggesting it's a woman is extreemly weak, the weakest argument against the whole issue. As for the other side, well I would guess that about 95% of them believe that Oswald has to be still upstairs on the sixth floor, can you figure out what their motivation is Larry and why I tend not to agree with them most of the time(but all the time, where did I say that?) Where do you yourself have Lee btw and can you give me one single fact based reason why it can't be him?

Quite frankly Barry, I do believe I know what conclusions I have reached, and what I have expressed, as well as any questions I may have asked. In the event that any expressed conclusion, or question, is not understood, I would suggest that you review this thread, read my posts, as well as any posted reply along with said post/reply being responded to. If still lacking clarity, I would suggest a complete, as described, review repeat.

In the event of needed additional clarification regarding my expressed conclusions, I would need a specific quote of said post/reply, along with a location reference. Then, I would need to know and understand any specific disputed conclusion with reasoning. And as well, your "evidence" that disproves my conclusion, along with any "evidence" that provides provable basis for your own.


Provided statements/testimony if needed:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/frazierb1.htm
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/lovelady.htm
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/sawyer_j.htm
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/arce.htm
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 06:59:00 PM by Larry Trotter »

Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #154 on: May 21, 2018, 06:30:51 PM »
If you want to correctly label correctly label one or more ladies, you may want to order photos of the Westbrook Collection at the 6FM. Photos show Karen with several of her colleagues.

The only lady that counts is Sarah Stanton and we have already correctly identified her as the person who is being called "Prayer Man" and mis-identified as Lee Harvey Oswald...

Karen Westbrook is a minor side issue where she has misidentified Gloria Calvery in her 6th Floor Museum interview...The real Calvery is the tall woman seen in Betzner 3 in a scarf as identified by her son in a private telephone call with myself...A sick person who has grabbed attention with the Prayer Man issue is denying my conversation with Calvery's son and telling me I have to prove it before he'll accept that Tall Woman is Calvery...The reason this ID is important is because Calvery's position as having arrived at the base of the steps in the Couch/Darnell film proves the timing of Buell Frazier turning and talking to Sarah as he testified...Frazier is facing Prayer Man in Couch/Darnell and therefore Prayer Man is Stanton...

I don't want to insult anyone, but Duncan's Davidson enhancement at the bottom of his original post in this thread is enough evidence to prove Prayer Man is Stanton...Stanton's face is visible enough at the resolution seen in Davidson to prove on a photo analysis basis that Prayer Man is Stanton...If you are a credible analyst you will realize Davidson provides enough evidence to prove Prayer Man is Stanton...The Davidson enhancement is the dividing line between qualified and unqualified...Credible analyst and uncredible...When Davidson publicly states Prayer Man is a woman, as he has repeatedly done, the Prayer Man side ignores him...They are not credibly seeking the truth...

Prayer Man has both feet on the landing...If you analyze Prayer Man's wide hips at the height shown in Darnell that would qualify for a "heavy-set" person and therefore represent credible evidence that Prayer Man is Stanton...The Prayer Man side sees this as clearly as we do only they ignore it because they are not interested in the correct forensic evidence and are trying to force Prayer Man to be Oswald like school kids...

Stancak:    " Chris:

My intention with that doorway was not to be accurate. "

There is really no need to take this source seriously...No one asks Davidson why he is helping prove Prayer Man is Oswald if he already said Prayer Man is a woman?...It's kind of goofy...

Walton's block model is regressive and useless...   
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 03:31:52 AM by Brian Doyle »

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #154 on: May 21, 2018, 06:30:51 PM »


Offline Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #155 on: May 22, 2018, 03:05:59 AM »
Without a doubt, the correct identification of GloriaCalvery as she and KaranHicks have arrived at the stairs, in view of PrayerWoman, and the indication that CarolReed is RunningWoman, has made several puzzle pieces fit quite snugly together.

Her announcement regarding JFK Sr's wounds was heard by SarahStanton, and confirmed to BuellFrazier,as she had spoken to BillyLovelady. And, that has timing information.

Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #156 on: May 22, 2018, 03:30:46 AM »



    Running Woman is Peggy Burney due to the skirt and blouse matching...

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #156 on: May 22, 2018, 03:30:46 AM »


Offline Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #157 on: May 22, 2018, 04:38:55 AM »


    Running Woman is Peggy Burney due to the skirt and blouse matching...

I believe I recall the possibility that CarolReed was at some point mis-identified as PeggyBurney. My conclusion is that the woman with either red hair or a red scarf, light colored blouse, and dark skirt seen with GloriaCalvery, KaranHicks, and KarenWestbrook, is CarolReed, aka RunningWoman. Admittedly a conclusion, but based on situational events as they were occurring. But, if wrong, so be it.

Offline Matthew Finch

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #158 on: May 22, 2018, 12:49:27 PM »
The Prayer Man promoters keep getting away with denying the Davidson enhancement...The Davidson enhancement in itself proves Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...When it was first posted over 2 years ago every LINK DELETED: Links To websites which contain materials or links to materials which are unsuitable for viewing by minors is forbidden member who saw it admitted it looked like a woman...They then backed-off saying yes it did appear like a woman but was a freak image that appeared because of photographic glitches...Rubbish...The woman's face is a real part of the Wiegman celluloid frame and the Murphy cult has gotten away with ignoring sound scientific evidence...

Davidson is all you need and it credibly shows the face of Sarah Stanton on Prayer Man and not Lee Harvey Oswald...Stancak is wasting the JFK research community's time with his cartoons that try to force Oswald's image on to Prayer Man...The moderators are allowing Stancak to basically do what Cinque and Fetzer did... 

Credible research looks at all evidence objectively and actively seeks evidence that solves an issue one way or the other...The Prayer Man people deliberately ignore evidence and then use mob tactics to get biased moderators to censor those with the facts...

Davidson avoids answering why he helps promote a computer graphic showing Oswald while he himself publicly committed to Prayer Man being a woman...What sense does that make and why is the time of other researchers being wasted? 

By the way, like Stancak, Davidson has drawn invalid height lines across the portal face that do not conform to the Depository front wall and its perspective plane...Other researchers are uncredibly mute on this and don't call out Davidson and Stancak on this disqualifying violation of science...They respond with ignoring...   

Hang on, so he is the only reference point one needs to assert that PM is Sarah, but also most of what he has done is invalid? Am I missing something here?

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #158 on: May 22, 2018, 12:49:27 PM »


Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #159 on: May 22, 2018, 03:36:00 PM »
Hang on, so he is the only reference point one needs to assert that PM is Sarah, but also most of what he has done is invalid? Am I missing something here?
His enhancement of the Wiegman film contains enough resolution to determine the face is a woman...I am 100% positive if we could get relatives of Stanton to show us a photo of her it would look like the woman's face in Davidson's enhancement...

Davidson posted a graphic where the height lines comparing Prayer Man and Frazier were not drawn according to perspective...It was in an attempt to assist Andrej Stancak show via computer graphic cartoons that Prayer Man was Oswald...Davidson's enhancement is valid and does prove Prayer Man is Stanton...His efforts to aid Stancak in showing Prayer Man as Oswald are not valid...

I find it bizarre and uncredible that Davidson could publicly say Prayer Man was a woman and then aid Stancak in trying to prove Prayer Man was Oswald and no one calls him on it...That is not credible research...

Also, Stancak has fabricated a second woman in the portal in order to remove the identification of Stanton from Prayer Man...The moderators are all over someone who tries to show Prayer Man is Stanton (which he is) but don't say a word to Stancak who is inventing non-existent people in the portal and badly mis-representing key evidence features in his graphics...The woman he shows in his graphic behind Frazier does not exist...Stancak fabricated her...Stancak also places Shelley on the landing in his graphic even though the film evidence shows Shelley walking up the Elm St extension with Lovelady...These are disqualifying mistakes yet no one says a word...

Prayer Man has to be Stanton because once you remove Stancak's bogus Stanton that he fabricated the only person Frazier could be talking to when he mentioned talking to Sarah is Prayer Man...Pauline Sanders is the only other option and she's too far away and to the rear...
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 04:15:14 PM by Brian Doyle »