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Author Topic: Prayer Woman  (Read 227638 times)

Online Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #140 on: May 14, 2018, 05:45:37 PM »
I suppose the irony, above irony, is that those of us that refuse to accept an unsupportable claim, are looked upon as "discussion disruptors", and are subject to ridicule attempts, as if we had made an outlandish claim, after 50 years of evident claim contradiction.

As I recently observed, my participation, that began on another forum in the then ongoing  PrayerPersonImage discussion, exceeds at least 4 years, and with consistent conclusions.

Far too often, "research researches research without study of research". And, without studying and researching the actual event, as it occurred in real time with real people involved as participants, victims, and witnesses.

« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 02:30:31 AM by Larry Trotter »

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #140 on: May 14, 2018, 05:45:37 PM »

Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #141 on: May 16, 2018, 04:38:47 AM »
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Barry,
regarding testimony? You ask whether or not I believe SamHolland and two others who stood near him, when they said that they saw smoke on the knoll, and then you ask why I wouldn't believe their solid testimony, as if you preferred to answer your own question.
Need I remind you sir, that this is the PrayerWoman Thread/Discussion? However, for clarification, I post comments regarding what I consider evidence based conclusions, and respond to comments by other posters. But, I do not consider "responding"to be an effort to be "bringing anything up to you". And, you need to locate and quote me being dismissive about SamHolland's testimony, any eyewitness testimony deemed reliable regarding any JohnKennedy head wounds, or the JohnConnally shot scenario testimony. As for as my "faith in those on the steps", said testimony passes the consistency and reliability level that I find acceptable. And, not one of the eyewitnesses/landing/stairs occupants testified that LeeOswald was among them during motorcade passage.
Bear in mind, BuellFrazier did not testify testify that LeeOswald was on the landing/stairs as the assassination occurred.
With regards to "mentality" as implied, although touch and go for awhile, about 3 years back, it seems to have returned to a self acceptable level, age considered. So, I see no need to be guided as to how to think.

I dismiss all the solid examples I gave you, as must anyone who believes all the shots came from behind and have found no evidence that those on the steps were any better at seperating facts from what they later believed. Also, I was talking about the mentality of the investigators and not your own. You seem to believe their testimony is persausive and yet for me it proves nothing. I assumed you must ignore some witnesses, if this is true then think of it and tell me how those on the steps were any better.

Did Holland or any of the dozen or so up there with him, tell us that some of these men were still clapping and waving at the limo as it approached them, including one stood within feet of Sam himself? Of course not. Does that then mean it probably didn't happen even if we see fuzzy images where they seem to be doing exactly that?
 
If you need examples nearer to PM  there are many out there from those that believe LHO=PM, including their motivation and inspiration for looking at it so closely.
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Online Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #142 on: May 16, 2018, 07:59:13 AM »
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I dismiss all the solid examples I gave you, as must anyone who believes all the shots came from behind and have found no evidence that those on the steps were any better at seperating facts from what they later believed. Also, I was talking about the mentality of the investigators and not your own. You seem to believe their testimony is persausive and yet for me it proves nothing. I assumed you must ignore some witnesses, if this is true then think of it and tell me how those on the steps were any better.

Did Holland or any of the dozen or so up there with him, tell us that some of these men were still clapping and waving at the limo as it approached them, including one stood within feet of Sam himself? Of course not. Does that then mean it probably didn't happen even if we see fuzzy images where they seem to be doing exactly that?
 
If you need examples nearer to PM  there are many out there from those that believe LHO=PM, including their motivation and inspiration for looking at it so closely.
.
Barry, again, this thread is named " "PrayerWoman", and so named as a discussion about who is represented by the PrayerPersonImage.
This thread is not about SamHolland, or about the TripleUnderpass occupants.
The eyewitnesses/occupants of the TSBD Building Elm St entrance landing/stairs would have information about the other occupants, and SamHolland and other TU occupants would not be likely to be able to provide information about occupants of the entrance stairs/landing.
Quite simple to me. And, for what reason for me to "need examples nearer to PM"? Who are the "many out there from those that believe LHO=PM, including their motivation and inspiration for looking at it so closely"? What does that mean?
As often stated, I indicate my conclusions, and you can do the same. Just state your case. However, the actual facts may differ, so I can deal with that. But, you have not provided any said facts.
In any event Barry, I have answered your questions, so I would hope that you do not keep asking the same, but reworded, questions.


But, I do wonder, as I wander, what your reasoning is for believing the"many out there from those that believe LHO=PM",and not agreeing with the many, yes many, that cannot, and do not, believe the LHO is PrayerManTheory?
For the record, I am among the many that conclude the PrayerPersonImage represents a female then employed at the TSBD Bldg, who went to the entrance stairs/landing area to view the JFK Sr motorcade, that included FL JBary Kamp, along with TG JBC Jr and FL IBC in the limousine.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 08:23:36 AM by Larry Trotter »

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #142 on: May 16, 2018, 07:59:13 AM »

Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #143 on: May 16, 2018, 04:52:24 PM »
The Prayer Man promoters keep getting away with denying the Davidson enhancement...The Davidson enhancement in itself proves Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...When it was first posted over 2 years ago every ROKC member who saw it admitted it looked like a woman...They then backed-off saying yes it did appear like a woman but was a freak image that appeared because of photographic glitches...Rubbish...The woman's face is a real part of the Wiegman celluloid frame and the Murphy cult has gotten away with ignoring sound scientific evidence...

Davidson is all you need and it credibly shows the face of Sarah Stanton on Prayer Man and not Lee Harvey Oswald...Stancak is wasting the JFK research community's time with his cartoons that try to force Oswald's image on to Prayer Man...The moderators are allowing Stancak to basically do what Cinque and Fetzer did... 

Credible research looks at all evidence objectively and actively seeks evidence that solves an issue one way or the other...The Prayer Man people deliberately ignore evidence and then use mob tactics to get biased moderators to censor those with the facts...

Davidson avoids answering why he helps promote a computer graphic showing Oswald while he himself publicly committed to Prayer Man being a woman...What sense does that make and why is the time of other researchers being wasted? 

By the way, like Stancak, Davidson has drawn invalid height lines across the portal face that do not conform to the Depository front wall and its perspective plane...Other researchers are uncredibly mute on this and don't call out Davidson and Stancak on this disqualifying violation of science...They respond with ignoring...   
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 04:57:47 PM by Brian Doyle »

Offline Mark A. Oblazney

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #144 on: May 18, 2018, 03:22:09 PM »
it was a dude taking pictures with a camera, methinx

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #144 on: May 18, 2018, 03:22:09 PM »

Offline Denis Morissette

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #145 on: May 19, 2018, 04:48:35 AM »
If you want to correctly label correctly label one or more ladies, you may want to order photos of the Westbrook Collection at the 6FM. Photos show Karen with several of her colleagues.

Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #146 on: May 20, 2018, 11:23:57 AM »
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Barry, again, this thread is named " "PrayerWoman", and so named as a discussion about who is represented by the PrayerPersonImage.
This thread is not about SamHolland, or about the TripleUnderpass occupants.
The eyewitnesses/occupants of the TSBD Building Elm St entrance landing/stairs would have information about the other occupants, and SamHolland and other TU occupants would not be likely to be able to provide information about occupants of the entrance stairs/landing.
Quite simple to me. And, for what reason for me to "need examples nearer to PM"? Who are the "many out there from those that believe LHO=PM, including their motivation and inspiration for looking at it so closely"? What does that mean?
As often stated, I indicate my conclusions, and you can do the same. Just state your case. However, the actual facts may differ, so I can deal with that. But, you have not provided any said facts.
In any event Barry, I have answered your questions, so I would hope that you do not keep asking the same, but reworded, questions.


But, I do wonder, as I wander, what your reasoning is for believing the"many out there from those that believe LHO=PM",and not agreeing with the many, yes many, that cannot, and do not, believe the LHO is PrayerManTheory?
For the record, I am among the many that conclude the PrayerPersonImage represents a female then employed at the TSBD Bldg, who went to the entrance stairs/landing area to view the JFK Sr motorcade, that included FL JBary Kamp, along with TG JBC Jr and FL IBC in the limousine.


You made it about witnesses here Larry, so I gave you my best example of a false witness in this case and I could have chosen a witness from any case I wanted and still be on topic, if you believe otherwise then please explain why. If I had decent footage of anyone on the steps during or immeadiatly after the shooting, I'm sure I'd have used that instead.

Here's what you haven't answered, why do you put so much faith in what witnesses said? I don't get it. Can you give me even one single example of a witness who is provably correct about anything significant in the plaza? How about some professional research that tells us to trust eyewitnesses? Anything.

Also, another you have yet to answer, since you don't trust "the enhancements" do you think PM actually looks like a woman? How/why?

If PM assumed his position just as the motorcade turned onto Houston, which witness would have noticed him?

I said if you need examples of poor witnesses nearer to PM then just search the web for research on the PM issue, also you wrote earlier that you could find no reason for wanting to put PM on the top step instead of the landing, the inspiration for that lies in the same place, on the web from the PM crowd. Your asking questions in a place where there are no real PM advocates getting involved.

My "belief" is that they are correct to question the trust put in these witnesses and I tend to agree that the "evidence" suggesting it's a woman is extreemly weak, the weakest argument against the whole issue. As for the other side, well I would guess that about 95% of them believe that Oswald has to be still upstairs on the sixth floor, can you figure out what their motivation is Larry and why I tend not to agree with them most of the time(but all the time, where did I say that?) Where do you yourself have Lee btw and can you give me one single fact based reason why it can't be him?

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #146 on: May 20, 2018, 11:23:57 AM »

Online Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #147 on: May 20, 2018, 06:57:05 PM »
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You made it about witnesses here Larry, so I gave you my best example of a false witness in this case and I could have chosen a witness from any case I wanted and still be on topic, if you believe otherwise then please explain why. If I had decent footage of anyone on the steps during or immeadiatly after the shooting, I'm sure I'd have used that instead.

Here's what you haven't answered, why do you put so much faith in what witnesses said? I don't get it. Can you give me even one single example of a witness who is provably correct about anything significant in the plaza? How about some professional research that tells us to trust eyewitnesses? Anything.

Also, another you have yet to answer, since you don't trust "the enhancements" do you think PM actually looks like a woman? How/why?

If PM assumed his position just as the motorcade turned onto Houston, which witness would have noticed him?

I said if you need examples of poor witnesses nearer to PM then just search the web for research on the PM issue, also you wrote earlier that you could find no reason for wanting to put PM on the top step instead of the landing, the inspiration for that lies in the same place, on the web from the PM crowd. Your asking questions in a place where there are no real PM advocates getting involved.

My "belief" is that they are correct to question the trust put in these witnesses and I tend to agree that the "evidence" suggesting it's a woman is extreemly weak, the weakest argument against the whole issue. As for the other side, well I would guess that about 95% of them believe that Oswald has to be still upstairs on the sixth floor, can you figure out what their motivation is Larry and why I tend not to agree with them most of the time(but all the time, where did I say that?) Where do you yourself have Lee btw and can you give me one single fact based reason why it can't be him?

Quite frankly Barry, I do believe I know what conclusions I have reached, and what I have expressed, as well as any questions I may have asked. In the event that any expressed conclusion, or question, is not understood, I would suggest that you review this thread, read my posts, as well as any posted reply along with said post/reply being responded to. If still lacking clarity, I would suggest a complete, as described, review repeat.

In the event of needed additional clarification regarding my expressed conclusions, I would need a specific quote of said post/reply, along with a location reference. Then, I would need to know and understand any specific disputed conclusion with reasoning. And as well, your "evidence" that disproves my conclusion, along with any "evidence" that provides provable basis for your own.


Provided statements/testimony if needed:

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« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 06:59:00 PM by Larry Trotter »

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #147 on: May 20, 2018, 06:57:05 PM »

Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #148 on: May 21, 2018, 06:30:51 PM »
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If you want to correctly label correctly label one or more ladies, you may want to order photos of the Westbrook Collection at the 6FM. Photos show Karen with several of her colleagues.

The only lady that counts is Sarah Stanton and we have already correctly identified her as the person who is being called "Prayer Man" and mis-identified as Lee Harvey Oswald...

Karen Westbrook is a minor side issue where she has misidentified Gloria Calvery in her 6th Floor Museum interview...The real Calvery is the tall woman seen in Betzner 3 in a scarf as identified by her son in a private telephone call with myself...A sick person who has grabbed attention with the Prayer Man issue is denying my conversation with Calvery's son and telling me I have to prove it before he'll accept that Tall Woman is Calvery...The reason this ID is important is because Calvery's position as having arrived at the base of the steps in the Couch/Darnell film proves the timing of Buell Frazier turning and talking to Sarah as he testified...Frazier is facing Prayer Man in Couch/Darnell and therefore Prayer Man is Stanton...

I don't want to insult anyone, but Duncan's Davidson enhancement at the bottom of his original post in this thread is enough evidence to prove Prayer Man is Stanton...Stanton's face is visible enough at the resolution seen in Davidson to prove on a photo analysis basis that Prayer Man is Stanton...If you are a credible analyst you will realize Davidson provides enough evidence to prove Prayer Man is Stanton...The Davidson enhancement is the dividing line between qualified and unqualified...Credible analyst and uncredible...When Davidson publicly states Prayer Man is a woman, as he has repeatedly done, the Prayer Man side ignores him...They are not credibly seeking the truth...

Prayer Man has both feet on the landing...If you analyze Prayer Man's wide hips at the height shown in Darnell that would qualify for a "heavy-set" person and therefore represent credible evidence that Prayer Man is Stanton...The Prayer Man side sees this as clearly as we do only they ignore it because they are not interested in the correct forensic evidence and are trying to force Prayer Man to be Oswald like school kids...

Stancak:    " Chris:

My intention with that doorway was not to be accurate. "

There is really no need to take this source seriously...No one asks Davidson why he is helping prove Prayer Man is Oswald if he already said Prayer Man is a woman?...It's kind of goofy...

Walton's block model is regressive and useless...   
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 03:31:52 AM by Brian Doyle »

Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #149 on: May 22, 2018, 03:30:46 AM »



    Running Woman is Peggy Burney due to the skirt and blouse matching...

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #149 on: May 22, 2018, 03:30:46 AM »

 

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