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Author Topic: Prayer Woman  (Read 200291 times)

Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #60 on: April 13, 2018, 05:35:08 AM »

  Translation:   "I can't understand what you are saying because it is over my head"...


  Unskilled persons shouldn't attempt this...My height analysis and triangulation are sound and you couldn't give any credible answer to it - thanks...


  The sun angle on Lovelady in Wiegman is in post #32...
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 05:37:26 AM by Brian Doyle »

Online John Mytton

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #61 on: April 13, 2018, 07:26:14 AM »
  Translation:   "I can't understand what you are saying because it is over my head"...


  Unskilled persons shouldn't attempt this...My height analysis and triangulation are sound and you couldn't give any credible answer to it - thanks...


  The sun angle on Lovelady in Wiegman is in post #32...



Quote
Translation:   "I can't understand what you are saying because it is over my head"...

I'm sorry Sonny Jim but I have successfully posted hundreds of images/videos analysing virtually every controversial image/film/video of this case and have several photobucket libraries to prove it, whereas you have suddenly burst on the scene and without any experience have thrust your embarrassing guesses down our throats.
My proven methodology is the very essence of photogrammetry and on the other hand in your latest wall of words your usage of phrases like "you can interpret where the..." and "I would estimate" ironically subconsciously betrays you. You're in over your head Doyle and watching you drown instead of embracing my lifeline of NASA level analysis saddens me.

Quote
  Unskilled persons shouldn't attempt this...My height analysis and triangulation are sound and you couldn't give any credible answer to it - thanks...

You're only using the word "triangulation" since you learnt it from me. Let's get real. if your "triangulation" is sound then present your diagrams to prove it because saying that X was close to Y and the sun was close in position Z etc etc is a lot of codswallop which proves nothing. Imagine you're in court and you're trying to convince a jury, now be honest do you think that your long pointless monologues would convince anyone but on the other hand my irrefutable depth mapped stereoscopic images would make your self serving interpretations and estimates a laughing stock and that's a fact Jack!

Quote
The sun angle on Lovelady in Wiegman is in post #32...

And again you are favorably guessing where people were standing to fuel your illiterate nonsense.



JohnM

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #61 on: April 13, 2018, 07:26:14 AM »


Online Ray Mitcham

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #62 on: April 13, 2018, 11:01:09 AM »
John, arguing with Doyle is like trying to push a piece of string. It is futile.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #63 on: April 13, 2018, 03:45:15 PM »
John, arguing with Doyle is like trying to push a piece of string. It is futile.

But has he mentioned that his arguments are the best on the Internet?

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #63 on: April 13, 2018, 03:45:15 PM »


Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #64 on: April 13, 2018, 06:20:04 PM »

I'm at a loss because my computer won't copy the "Properties" url of images...When I click and drag the cursor across a properties url it doesn't highlight...

If I could post images I would show the classic Darnell frame from which the infamous Prayer Man image originated...A skilled observer would note that Darnell's camera is shooting the portal scene at about a 22 degree angle to the portal...You can then observe that Prayer Man's head is in line with the aluminum window frame behind her...What that means is Prayer Man is somewhere on the line that goes from Darnell's camera to the aluminum frame...

This is where the sun plane Ray refuses to honestly recognize comes in...If you look at the Wiegman image I'm linking the shadow of the west wall falls vertically across Lovelady's right side...A wider version of the same image shows Lovelady is leaning on the center rail and is near the middle of the portal...What that means is Stancak's overhead graphic shown in post #6 of this thread has mislocated the shadow plane...It is much further east, as the shadow on Lovelady shows...This is important because it tells you where Prayer Man's hand is located when it is glancing the sun plane...

The triangulation I am talking about determines where the line from Darnell's camera crosses the shadow plane and Prayer Man's relationship to it...Stancak used those coordinates to determine his Prayer Man position only he mislocated PM as having a foot on the step when in fact PM is standing on the landing with both feet...Stancak also moved PM a little too far west because he misdrew the shadow plane...Since the shadow plane is further east that means Prayer Man's hand that is glancing it is also further east...

Prayer Man's right shoulder also has a visible gap between it and the west wall...If you look at Stancak's overhead diagram you can see where the steps are according to the west wall...PM is accordingly at the edge of the landing all considered:

   

Online Ray Mitcham

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #65 on: April 14, 2018, 10:24:06 AM »
Here you are Brian. Be my guest.


Glad to help a genius.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #65 on: April 14, 2018, 10:24:06 AM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #66 on: April 14, 2018, 10:47:39 PM »


I'm sorry Sonny Jim but I have successfully posted hundreds of images/videos analysing virtually every controversial image/film/video of this case and have several photobucket libraries to prove it, whereas you have suddenly burst on the scene and without any experience have thrust your embarrassing guesses down our throats.

My proven methodology is the very essence of photogrammetry and on the other hand in your latest wall of words your usage of phrases like "you can interpret where the..." and "I would estimate" ironically subconsciously betrays you. You're in over your head Doyle and watching you drown instead of embracing my lifeline of NASA level analysis saddens me.

You're only using the word "triangulation" since you learnt it from me. Let's get real. if your "triangulation" is sound then present your diagrams to prove it because saying that X was close to Y and the sun was close in position Z etc etc is a lot of codswallop which proves nothing. Imagine you're in court and you're trying to convince a jury, now be honest do you think that your long pointless monologues would convince anyone but on the other hand my irrefutable depth mapped stereoscopic images would make your self serving interpretations and estimates a laughing stock and that's a fact Jack!

And again you are favorably guessing where people were standing to fuel your illiterate nonsense.



JohnM

I have successfully posted hundreds of images/videos

Just wondering.... is there also an unsuccessfull way to post images/videos?

My proven methodology

Proven by....... ?

instead of embracing my lifeline of NASA level analysis

Who says you meet "NASA level"? .... I phoned NASA and they have never heard of you  ::)

my irrefutable depth mapped stereoscopic images

Say what?

Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #67 on: April 14, 2018, 11:21:57 PM »
Ctrl + c = copy and Ctrl + v = paste so just highlight what you want with your mouse first.


That could be the true shadow line hitting BL above and there might be a sign of it on BWF's shoulder in Darnell but the earlier Wiegman frame that shows even more shadow hitting BL when he's a step lower cannot be trusted. Compare it for yourself below.


For the record this shows Lovelady stepped down(from IMHO the top step, one below Shelley) not up. If he was on the landing he may have had to lean too far forward to spot the limo.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #67 on: April 14, 2018, 11:21:57 PM »


Online Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #68 on: April 15, 2018, 06:28:09 PM »
Barry:   The reason there is more sun in the image of Lovelady when he is on landing is because he is protruding his hand and arm forward more in that image than when he steps down...Instead of questioning the shadow's realness this actually helps verify it...The shadow is straighter when Lovelady steps down because he is protruding forward less and making a cleaner edge...

But this is secondary to the main point you still haven't answered...You seem to be drawing doubt about the shadow but you haven't explained what else it could be...It is more than obvious that it is the west wall of the portal that is causing that shadow and that it is falling across Lovelady, therefore delineating where the Sun/Shadow plane is in the portal... 

You are failing to account for the fact Lovelady stepped down at an angle and therefore created the shadow differences you site...
         

Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #69 on: April 15, 2018, 08:02:38 PM »
If you could actually prove Lovelady was on the landing above, then it'd be all over Brian. It's bad enough for PM if BL is on the top step which is where I think he is.
As far as the shadow goes, all indications tell us that the west wall's shadow hits people at an angle, like on the reporter in Murray and in the evidence above and on the steps themselves, the one frame where it's hitting BL straight up and down makes no sense and yes I can see BL moved west slightly as he stepped down but his body posture is very similar, the heavy leaning moment we see in Altgens was over, the reasons you gave for the difference might produce a similar amount of shadow but not more, which is clearly what we have. Regardless, the shadow on him there where he's near the top is enough for your dispute and I have offered an explaination for it albeit a layman's one, I said it might be a combination of the film/camera/position of subject and the pattern of his shirt making it difficult for Weigman to produce the truth, that and the fact that there is no other evidence supporting that heavy a shadow on anyone else in later images.

Imagine you're on the steps Brian, and the sun is in a similar position, doesn't have to be exact, now you walk up the steps and place your feet into the first shaded parts so that they are completely enveloped in shadow, just your feet perhaps even up to your ankles. Is your upper body being hit by anything?

 

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