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Author Topic: Prayer Woman  (Read 200494 times)

Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2018, 04:54:09 PM »
Brian, how can PM's hand be in direct sunlight if Lovelady and that reporter are partially shaded?

Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2018, 04:57:19 PM »
Barry:   The shadow line on Lovelady is accurate...No credible argument has been made to show why the shadow that visibly shades Lovelady's right side isn't a real indication of the shadow line in the portal...James Gordon tells Andrej to take his time while he bans me for no reason...Stancak comes back over a year later and shoots himself in the foot with major components of the graphic being way off inaccuracy...What does that tell you, by objective definitions, about the credibility and competency of JFK research websites and their oversight? If those sites are full of people who are honestly tolerant and accept mistakes and don't like to be "insulted" then why don't they go out and look at my correct information here and respond to it like credible objective researchers would do if they were sincerely looking for the truth? Why is provably wrong information protected on those websites?

Stancak has also misdrawn the positions of Frazier and Prayer Person in his overhead graphic...He has them staring in to space, but the real Darnell image shows them looking directly at each other...Prayer Person is not nearly turned enough towards Frazier in Stancak's cartoon like he really is in Darnell...Stancak did this on purpose in order to get around the fact Frazier was looking at and talking to "Sarah" as he said in his 6th Floor Museum interview...James Gordon is a teller of non truths...When he banned me in 2016 all I was doing was arguing my evidence...He saw I was getting the upper hand on his favorite Prayer Person posters so he banned me...When I asked in PM's why I was banned he said he did not have to explain and any further inquiry might result in my permanent banning...He then banned me anyway...That "indisciplined" and "insulting" is BS he made up after the fact...Meanwhile he ignores that he banned the person who proved the truth against a 95% majority...He also ignores the fact Debra Conway revoked her Lancer award to Larry Grayson doppleganger Bart " Ooooh...Shut That Door" Kamp because of the evidence I sent her calling it "a mistake"...

It is time to get rid of the real problem here...Time to boot Gordon and L Johnson as the frauds and incompetents they are who favor cranks at the expense of credible assassination research...DiEugenio needs to be put on some kind of probation...If he ignores good evidence he has to be punished for it...Ganging up with cronies is not going to get him around that...
   
DiEugenio on the Education Forum last night:     "Prayer Man is definitely not Sarah Stanton"...

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2018, 04:57:19 PM »


Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2018, 09:34:09 PM »
Brian, how can PM's hand be in direct sunlight if Lovelady and that reporter are partially shaded?
It's not...Drew Phipps applied a light sensing app to the Wiegman and Darnell images and found light percentages on the glowing parts of Prayer Person of around 60% to 80% of direct sunlight...Phipps quit DPF out of disgust with the moderation...He told me himself in a phone call...

That means Prayer Person has the light reflective face of her hand close enough to the sun/shade border that it illuminates but not to the degree of a directly lit hand...This might be the matter of a few inches but it tells you precisely where Stanton is...To Stancak's credit he is the only one of the Murphy theorists to correctly enter my height analysis particulars in his evidence...Only he got some things seriously wrong like the shadow plane and Prayer Person's foot being on the step...

In my review lately I found an interesting thing...In Wiegman you can see Prayer Person's forearm area near the elbow illuminated as well as her hand...The mid part of the forearm is not illuminated because Stanton's purse is jutting in to it...When I posted this I got ridiculed by the Murphy crazies but the truth is it is exactly accurate and will be confirmed by experts...You can also see the purse in the Davidson image Duncan posted in reply #5 on page 1... 

In any case there can be no doubt the shadow is seen on Lovelady's right 1/3rd...If you have a grasp of the sun plane Prayer Person is sticking her arms forward with her purse in her hands and is therefore coming close to the sun/shade border...That border itself transects Lovelady's right side...Does Prayer Person's lit hand make the clearly-seen shadow on Lovelady go away? A good detective always follows the evidence and not the excuses...
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 06:13:11 PM by Brian Doyle »

Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2018, 09:32:39 PM »
  There's a silly discussion going on right now on the EF about why Oswald would be allowed to go stand out on the steps if he was being framed as the Lone Nut shooter...The Murphy zealots are saying it didn't matter if Oswald was seen in films because a greater conspiracy was being hatched where the Russians and Cubans were being implicated and therefore Oswald could still be a part of it and still be filmed outside on the steps...What BS!

These Murphy zealots forget that Oswald maintained cover at the police station and therefore showed signs of obeying orders to the bitter end...The same orders that placed him in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room and out of the way during the shots...In that silly discussion the Murphy-ites forget to mention Carolyn Arnold's witnessing of Oswald in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room at 12:25...Oswald was so obedient to orders that he stayed on the lunch room side of the vestibule window when he heard Truly shouting for the elevator and got up to see what was going on...

Larsen forgets that there's lots of evidence out there to show Oswald was being framed as the shooter on the 6th floor...There's Oswald doubles asking if Kennedy could be shot from a high building...There's a paper sack in the mail...There's Oswald being framed as a dangerous shooter in the Walker case...There's CIA Ruth Paine getting him a job at the Depository...There's evidence that the Carcano was manipulated from the warehouse order long before the assassination...

Sandy says Johnson changed the Russia and Cuba plan after the assassination to the Lone Nut plan...But that isn't true if Oswald was supposed to be killed...That was long before Johnson had any control over the plot...So that means during the time of Oswald allegedly being on the steps the Lone Gunman plan was already on and therefore it was imperative that Oswald would not be seen anywhere that would exonerate him...Larsen's being silly...The conspiracy shows intense planning long before the assassination and control by Intel powers that would not do something as stupid as allow the patsy to blow the plot by wandering outside on the the front steps...The people who blow off all the evidence to show why this is true are the same types who would ignore the clear face of Sarah Stanton shown in the Davidson enhancement and still hope their wishful equivocations would work...

 Where do you get these people? The evidence shows Oswald was being set-up as a shooter in multiple witnessings...A shooter can't be seen on the front steps and such a complex plot would not allow him to be...Oswald was in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room where Carolyn Arnold and Baker & Truly saw him...

If Oswald was filmed outside would the plotters have allowed Baker & Truly to fabricate a false story about the 2nd Floor Lunch Room and then get caught?

The Murphy crazies are saying Oswald had every chance in the world to say at the Press Conference I was outside on the front steps during the shots but didn't...
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 04:57:31 AM by Brian Doyle »

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2018, 09:32:39 PM »


Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2018, 04:57:18 PM »
The reason Andeaj is ignoring the shadow on Lovelady must be because he doesn't trust it. It doesn't seem to gel with what Ray was referring you to and other images of the steps that show the shadow line after the assassination, so hasn't he explained why he dismissed it? Has anyone?

As for the odd PM stance in his mock up, it's clearly not right but that doesn't mean a man cannot put his foot on the step in a more natural and comfortable fashion, that reporter had no issues doing it but you might note that his leg his rather well bent but he might be only 5'5 IDK(can't find the image where we see this but it's most likely an Allen or Murray). In Duncan's first post there's a mistake or typo, he wrote that PM's height was calculated by John Mytton to be 5'3 if "he was stood on the top step", that's incorrect, it should read 5'3 if he was on the landing, if he was on the top step he would be around 5'9. That's the problem, you can't prove he's not on the top step much like you cannot prove it's a woman.

I don't see why(playing DA) why he can't be facing the street in Wiegman and on the top step and then as someone approaches the bottom of the steps to come inside, he can't turn sideways to give them room and in doing so put one foot on the landing. My only question is, does that mean he's on the same step as Lovelady at one point and doesn't that create a problem visually? Did we conclude previously Brian, that BL moves up to the top step in Wiegman or not? IDR.

The "evidence" suggesting he is female is as nothing compared to those dozen or so frames of Darnell when seen in motion that tell me it's a man. Sorry and I've gone over this before but the so called enhancements have shown me nothing new, that is, nothing trustworthy, the only thing I'm actully quite sure of is that it's a male. That's because of the superior evidence of Darnell in motion and "stabilized", there's no question in my mind and I'll not refer to it again, the handbag, the buttons, the fingers you mentioned and that monster of a face with the massive forehead, they're simply not credible.

Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #45 on: April 08, 2018, 06:14:04 PM »
Barry:    Your post is quite regressive and ignores some already proven facts...I am also dismayed that you refer to Ray as a credible source...In my opinion Ray has ignored enough proven evidence to dismiss himself from arguing amongst serious posters...

You can't just say you don't trust something but then skip the necessary scientific detail to justify that distrust...I'm sorry Barry but that shadow is the shadow of the west portal wall...Any simple viewing of the Wiegman image will show that there's nothing on that side of Lovelady to cause the shadow except for the west wall...You have to pay attention to the details of this issue...Stancak posted on the Education Forum that he established his shadow in his overhead graphic by using a sun angle program where you inputted the time, date, and location etc...I would guess that the reason for Stancak's erroneously-placed shadow is that he inputted a straight east-west coordinate for the Depository front wall...So while you give Stancak credit for his obvious evasion, you fail to account for Stancak's lack of credibility from the get go...I haven't seen anyone post any other images that would contest my Wiegman GIF...Sorry Barry but you haven't explained the shadow that anyone could see in that link...Stancak posted on the EF that he will not respond to anything that comes from "Sauron" in Lord Of The Rings because he is a bad person who insults people (he is referring to me)...It is more than clear that Stancak is running to the protection of Gordon's censorship because he knows he can't answer for his serious errors and what they show...There's nothing stopping Stancak from coming in to this thread...Him and DiEugenio only post where they know the opposition has been removed...

I don't know what you are talking about...I also cannot find the original linked Murray photo, however it showed the reporter with both feet on the step so your claim that he repeated Stancak's awkward one foot down stance is not accurate...Plus you haven't really answered my point...If you take Stancak's own overhead graphic and turn PM in to the Wiegman position with shoulders squared to the landing, by Stancak's own model PM's left side would be lit by bright sun like the reporter...Barry - Stancak did not do a graphic of Wiegman because he knew it refuted his one step down BS...I'm disappointed in you Barry...If you recall your own Prayer Man GIF of all PM film images it showed a movement of PM in his pivot from Wiegman to Darnell that precluded a foot being on the step...Stancak must answer to this Wiegman evidence...If he refuses he must be charged with failing to answer correct scientific photogrammetry and the correct conclusions must be made about him and his work...Gordon's dishonesty and incompetence must not be allowed to protect Stancak from this honest, objective standard...

In my estimate I would say PM is 5 foot 5 or 6...I would bet if we could find Sarah Stanton's vital records they would show her height to be 5 foot 5 or 6...I tried to access those records with a formal request to the Texas Bureau Of Public Safety but came up empty...I asked a famous Texas private detective to help me but got not response...

Davidson already proved PM was a woman with his Wiegman enhancement...When that enhancement was shown to several LINK DELETED: Links To websites which contain materials or links to materials which are unsuitable for viewing by minors is forbidden members on the Education Forum 2 years ago every single one of them agreed it looked like a woman...Realizing the consequences of that they then lied and said it was a mirage that just so happened to appear exactly where PM's head should be by coincidence (All fine with Gordon who is really sensitive to insults but doesn't mind wicked denials)...

As we already discussed in the previous deleted thread, if you looked closely at your GIF when PM pivots from Weigman to Darnell there is very little change in the position and height of PM's head and shoulders...Any look at Stancak's own overhead graphic would show that PM would have both feet on the step in Wiegman because natural body movement would cause a person to bring their foot down to the step rather than leave it in the uncomfortable position of dangling on the landing while the entire body was squared over the step...It is very important to notice that PM is squared to the landing in Wiegman...Go to your nearest staircase and square your shoulders to the steps and stand in Stancak's one foot down position...and do it while holding a purse up to your chest while manipulating it...Contrary to Stancak's claim that this is a perfectly comfortable position, your back leg up on the landing soon wants to join the right leg on the step...And don't forget that this position brings PM's body over the step and in to the sunlight...You seem to be mulling between uncredible and not trustworthy but you are failing to answer the basic point that a person with shoulders squared to the landing who put a foot on the step brings their body over step according to body movements...You are just ignoring that Stancak's own graphic proves if that happened PM would be lit by direct sun on his left side...You can't just ignore this, and if you do you concede my point...Like the overly long leg, Stancak avoided this because he knew it disproved him...All fine with the Gordon-led idiots on the Education Forum who don't even notice...Where is that Rube Goldberg David Josephs when this evidence comes up (ducking and running to the protection of his dirty moderators)...

Anyone who says Lovelady moved UP to the landing doesn't understand the dynamics of this whole scenario...Lovelady is on the landing and moves down to the step in the subsequent Wiegman frames...The point that Gordon banned me was when I was proving this by showing Lovelady's height compared to the others on the landing in Altgens...Gordon knew I had disproved his favored Murphy members with that so he rushed in to protect them with dirty banning rather than admit somebody whom he patronized had just soundly disproven him...(L Johnson too)

I would say it was more likely Baker went up the east side of the steps and behind Frazier because, if you look closely, the door opens on that side of the landing...That way Frazier is focused on Sarah and doesn't see Baker rush in behind him...Look at Stancak's overhead graphic...This scenario is easily possible...

Barry:   Davidson clearly shows the face of Sarah Stanton...I advise you to look closely at the images Duncan displayed on page 1 of this thread...The purse is very obvious in Duncan's image...You can also see wide hips on PM in Darnell...In his Garrison Trial deposition Frazier said Sarah was "heavy-set"...A stocky woman would have wide hips and a skilled analyst would also detect that Davidson's woman's face also has pudgy cheeks...

The massive forehead is the PM advocate's excuse...I already showed it is the forehead of a person who pulled in behind PM from the first Wiegman frame...But a person who knows photogrammetry would know that the forehead does not relieve them from explaining the clearly seen woman's face on PM that is in the position it should be on PM's body...This female was located by Frazier in his statements and this spoken component of the forensics cannot be ignored as PM advocates attempt...

The buttons will be confirmed by the first film expert who gets hold of Darnell and examines it...They are a firm part of the original Wiegman celluloid and do prove that the garment cannot be Oswald's...So will the hand and fingers...We are talking about credible film analysis here and the film forensics I mention will all come in on my side and will also come in against the Murphy theorists...

You don't seem to have a grasp of the terms here...I proved Stancak's foot on the step was impossible...Since Stancak cheated and made a leg that was 2 inches longer than Frazier's that means he can't make PM fit if his leg is on the step...You are not obeying the terms of the argument here...PM's height has to stay the same in relation to Frazier...Stancak refuted himself by not being able to stretch PM's leg to the step while maintaining that height...You haven't answered this so it means my proof is good since the definition of proof is that which the opposition can't answer...

Found it!:

   
            https://www.google.com/search?biw=2282&bih=1176&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=bFbKWr_aLvCwtgXp8oOQBQ&q=Murray+JFK+Front+Steps&oq=Murray+JFK+Front+Steps&gs_l=psy-ab.12...2478.2826.0.6454.2.2.0.0.0.0.158.305.0j2.2.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.hHWCY5gXktY#imgrc=FoJjT4tjaGmXxM:








 
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 04:37:41 PM by Brian Doyle »

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #45 on: April 08, 2018, 06:14:04 PM »


Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #46 on: April 08, 2018, 06:23:07 PM »
I am also dismayed that you refer to Ray as a credible source...In my opinion Ray has ignored enough proven evidence to dismiss himself from arguing amongst serious posters...


Brian,

Aren't you an Armstrongite? And you're accusing Ray of ignoring evidence?  ???

Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2018, 09:41:49 PM »
Thanks for the full response Brian, haven't read it fully yet but just reacting to one quick thing, there is an image that shows that reporter with his leg bent, Murray or Allen came first to mind but it might be from another, I know it's a still, it's out there and if you haven't seen it then you might be surprised by how much he had to bend his knee but as I mentioned he could be a short man. The shape of Andreaj's awkward leg is being dictated by what he sees in Darnell, he thinks he is seeing the true shape of it there so that's what he drew in.

Also was this the gif you were after? It's one of Joseph's.


Another from him that might help picture where Lovelady moved to and if he should or shouldn't be hit by shadow.

Visually, he shouldn't be in deep shadow like that and I can't put the shadow on that reporter in the same position, I'll keep an open mind though Brain that's all I can do atm.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2018, 09:41:49 PM »


Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2018, 10:06:49 PM »
Chris Davidson did indeed do an enhancement of PM's face in Weigman and yes he did say it looks like a woman but it looks nothing like what has convinced you and if I see it on my travels I'll post it, one thing I remember about it Brian, it had "eyebrows" , if you saw it yourself you may even prefer it, if I had to choose between them I know I would and I also know it would look more like Stanton than what we see in this thread.  The features highlighted by Duncan came about "by chance" but when he when out of his way to draw out a face from Wiegman for himself Davidson found something completely different and if you can find one quote from him where he said he likes the face that Duncan found I'll take it all back and never mention it again. Did you even see it? It's a completely different" face".

Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2018, 10:42:26 PM »
You clearly need a forum where there are no rules Brian.

 

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