Prayer Woman

[Larry Trotter]

One more time for everybody...



A  cop [apparently in securing the entry] allows a guy and another cop to go in.
The old bag holding the bag with both hands..uhh looks like she's praying ...she is the one in the blue coat... & acts like she doesn't know what to do with herself.

Jerry:
Again, as a reminder, again, about a year and a half ago, after viewing the clips of the MartinFilm, and HughesFilm, that I believe had previously been isolated by DuncanMacRae,  I concluded I could see some minor resemblance of the LadyImage and PrayerWomanImage.

In order to hopefully secure a positive identification, I started a thread, on another forum to do just that, wherever it lead. And, for lack of a better term, I referred to the LadyImage as ScarfLady, but later to be more accurate, I began referring to ScarfLady as ScarfLadyImage.

Therefor, out of respect, I continue to refer to said image as ScarfLadyImage, as no verifiable correct identity has been established. And, any "old lady" reference by me, was strictly a quote of your comment, seeking clarification.

Plainly stated, I do not know the age of ScarfLadyImage, nor do I see her as an "old bag holding the bag with both hands...uhh looks like she's praying". I see her purse/handbag, attached by strap to her left forearm, and held in that fashion. So, if 'another bag' is seen being held by both hands, it is not seen by me.

Admittedly, evidence has been presented, actual evidence, that indicates that ScarfLadyImage is not aka SarahDeanStanton. That said, although I am not disputing that evidence, I also am so far unable to embrace it as well.

As for the coat worn by ScarfLadyImage, it had rained in the area earlier, and had cooled off that late fall day.

I suppose not being able to 'know what to do with herself' is understandable, considering both the current President of the UnitedStates, and the current Governor of Texas had been shot, just minutes earlier, and just a few feet away from the building where, apparently, she was employed, as well as just across the street from the DallasCountySheriff's Department Building.

I do believe a similar indicative Reply posted previously may have been overlooked and/or ignored.

[Alan Ford]

Friends, we MUST account for the variable amount of wall showing between Prayer Man's right elbow and the redbrick section!

The very short gap in WIEGMAN makes it impossible to put Prayer Man anywhere other than one step down:



But! The gap is markedly larger in DARNELL:



I don't believe this can be explained away simply by the slightly different POV between the two cameramen.

Seems to me the only credible explanation------------barring other credible suggestions! -------------is the following:

When Prayer Man in Wiegman moves his right hand up to his mouth, his right elbow is raised correspondingly:



Now if Prayer Man were to fold his arms, we would expect to see that right elbow higher than it was when he wasn't eating/drinking and slightly east of where it was when he was. And that's exactly what we do see in Darnell:



So I submit!:

-Prayer Man in Wiegman has his hands in the 'prayer' formation
-Prayer Man in Darnell has his arms folded.

No other solution seems to me to naturally allow Prayer Man to stay on the same step AND change so obviously the position of his right elbow!

[Patrick Jackson]

You probably won't because she probably wasn't in Dealey Plaza at the time of the assassination. (Cf. Virginia H. Barnum, Vida Lee Whatley.)

The thing with the Scarf lady in blue coat is that she could not be TSBD employee. She was wearing a coat which means that she went to watch motorcade early and was outside all the time. If she was TSBD employee she would not take raincoat to go out at 12:20-12:25. Right? We must find here somewhere else before Martin/Hughes films.

[Larry Trotter]

The thing with the Scarf lady in blue coat is that she could not be TSBD employee. She was wearing a coat which means that she went to watch motorcade early and was outside all the time. If she was TSBD employee she would not take raincoat to go out at 12:20-12:25. Right? We must find here somewhere else before Martin/Hughes films.

I do apologize for entering into your conversation with AlanFord, but I have to question the validity of your expressed theory that the person represented by ScarfLadyImage cannot be employed at the TexasSchoolBookDepository Building, with your reasoning of said person wearing a coat

There are numerous indications of MalePersonImages representing males at and/or near the TSBD Bldg wearing jackets/coats at about the same time. But no, I do not know the exact number, and it is not necessary to validate "numerous", as it applies.

Also, there are numerous indications of FemalePersonImages representing females at and/or near the TSBD Bldg wearing coats at about the same time. But no, again, I do not know the exact number, and it is not necessary to validate "numerous", as it applies.

So, for clarification, it is my developed conclusion that ScarfLadyImage represents a female that was then employed at the TSBD Bldg, and the HughesFilm as well as the MartinFilm are indicative of an employee at said building attempting to return to her work area.

[Duncan MacRae]

I do apologize for entering into your conversation with AlanFord, but I have to question the validity of your expressed theory that the person represented by ScarfLadyImage cannot be employed at the TexasSchoolBookDepository Building, with your reasoning of said person wearing a coat

There are numerous indications of MalePersonImages representing males at and/or near the TSBD Bldg wearing jackets/coats at about the same time. But no, I do not know the exact number, and it is not necessary to validate "numerous", as it applies.

Also, there are numerous indications of FemalePersonImages representing females at and/or near the TSBD Bldg wearing coats at about the same time. But no, again, I do not know the exact number, and it is not necessary to validate "numerous", as it applies.

So, for clarification, it is my developed conclusion that ScarfLadyImage represents a female that was then employed at the TSBD Bldg, and the HughesFilm as well as the MartinFilm are indicative of an employee at said building attempting to return to her work area.

Here she is again, Larry, courtesy of Chris Davidson.

I don't know the time of this short clip, as Chris didn't provide any further info along with the Video clip.

[Larry Trotter]

Here she is again, Larry, courtesy of Chris Davidson.

I don't know the time of this short clip, as Chris didn't provide any further info along with the Video clip.

Yes, I have seen that image before, and possibly, an actual photograph form a similar angle.
I do see a resemblance of LadyImage as seen on the stairs speaking to a gentleman, to ScarfLadyImage and PrayerWomanImage.
My time guesstimation would be as LadyImage is leaving the TSBD Bldg for the day, maybe about 2:20pm CST on 11/22/'63. Certainly no later than about 2;30pm CST.
Good find, good post.

[Patrick Jackson]

I do apologize for entering into your conversation with AlanFord, but I have to question the validity of your expressed theory that the person represented by ScarfLadyImage cannot be employed at the TexasSchoolBookDepository Building, with your reasoning of said person wearing a coat

There are numerous indications of MalePersonImages representing males at and/or near the TSBD Bldg wearing jackets/coats at about the same time. But no, I do not know the exact number, and it is not necessary to validate "numerous", as it applies.

Also, there are numerous indications of FemalePersonImages representing females at and/or near the TSBD Bldg wearing coats at about the same time. But no, again, I do not know the exact number, and it is not necessary to validate "numerous", as it applies.

So, for clarification, it is my developed conclusion that ScarfLadyImage represents a female that was then employed at the TSBD Bldg, and the HughesFilm as well as the MartinFilm are indicative of an employee at said building attempting to return to her work area.

If we accept that the Scarf Lady is wearing a rain coat what are the chances she is TSBD employee? Very, very low. Most of the TSBD employees left their working positions between 12:10-12:30 when the rain was well over and there was a nice sun so what are the chances TSBD employee would take her rain coat to go outside to watch the motorcade? Very, very low.
Scarf lady was a person who lived reasonably away from Dallas, who left her home early in the morning while it was raining or about to rain and that is why she had a rain coat. Same as people in Fort Worth, most of them had rain coats.
Once again, there are slim chances TSBD employee would take rain coat to go down and watch motorcade at noon. Same as you see many spectators in Dallas do not have rain coats because they lived close and did not have to leave their homes early in the morning while it was raining.

Luckily, I quickly found this image on my files. I think this was Scarf Lady but have to find here somewhere else too.