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Author Topic: Prayer Woman  (Read 303663 times)

Offline Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #490 on: June 23, 2018, 05:10:57 PM »
The thing is that Doyle has some grudge against the members of another forum.That forum is a strong Prayer Man supporter. So Doyle just to be contrary claims that it is not Oswald and has latched on to the Prayer Woman idea. It has essentially nothing to do with PM or even the JFK case in general.Just  a personal grudge.

Fred

Excuse me sir, but I would suggest you investigate the subject before offering judgement.
Why is it being proposed that PrayerPersonImage represents LeeHarveyOswald?
Where is the evidence?

Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #491 on: June 23, 2018, 05:55:14 PM »
Unfortunately Brian, I have to disagree with you. I believe there is enough resemblance to warrant further investigation. And, as you should recall, I have held that conclusion for some time now. Therefor, I await satisfactory proof, either way.


   
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I wish someone would please explain to me why we are using precious access time to ask these witnesses if a person who is on the landing 20 minutes after the shots, according to the time of the imagery, is their relative Sarah Stanton? The well known record has Stanton inside Westbrook's office "bull-pen" at that point being detained by the cops for statements...

Online Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #492 on: June 23, 2018, 06:52:29 PM »
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The bottom line with the Stanton interview, is that Sarah Stanton was interacting with Oswald by the stairs of the 2nd floor before the motorcade passed by and she saw him with a soda.

Brian Doyle has been having huge problems the past week refuting Alan Ford's clear cut statements and my evidence which annihilate his little pet theory. Add on he scored a couple of own goals.....


I'm having trouble understanding what this somewhat inarticulate statement is trying to say?...By always being on the attack and always claiming to be winning the debate Bart avoids answering that Ford, whose style should alert most people to his credibility, endorses Carolyn Arnold's witnessing of Oswald in the lunch room...Endorsement of Ford alone should be grounds for self-destruction of credibility...

Even though Kamp went immediately for the cheap shots when my interview was posted, claiming it was a bad way to do an interview, I see he now accepts what was uncovered in the interview and credits me for it...The issue then is exactly when Sarah saw Oswald and, if she was going out with a group, why the others didn't? If you look at the testimonies of the office workers the general time mentioned for leaving was somewhere around 12:15 to 12:20 or so...There's nothing overtly clashing with assuming Stanton saw Oswald around 12:18...This means Oswald was in the lunch room buying a Coke at this time...We can safely assume some things from this...At 12:18 or even later Oswald was oriented towards being in or near the lunch room and having a Coke...



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Yet at the same time with one of these own goals he has brought forward that Oswald bought his coke for his lunch. The fact that he stated that Oswald was not going to go out but inside to the place he worked unequivocally shows that Oswald was not having lunch in the second floor lunch room, no Lee nor Harvey (another "escape excuse" used by Doyle).


Bart is ignoring that Rosa, Sarah's daughter in law, specifically recalled Sarah saying she asked Oswald are you going downstairs to see the president? Since Sarah worked in the 2nd floor offices we can assume she encountered Oswald by the stairway landing to the 2nd floor in front of the doorway to the lunch room...

Kamp is not honestly reflecting what I wrote and he is being assisted by the oppressive censorship of the Education Forum moderation in misrepresenting what is being shown here...If you listen to time mark 5:42 of the interview Rosa says Sarah asked Oswald "Are you going UP to lunch?"...Oswald responded "No, I'm going back in my room"...What Kamp doesn't know is Wanda (the grand daughter) is old enough to have heard Sarah tell her story...Wanda told me she thought she heard Sarah say she saw Oswald in a break room...Kamp is avoiding inputting Carolyn Arnold's witnessing of Oswald after Stanton where Arnold saw Oswald in the lunch room itself...Kamp ignores a clear reality staring him in the face that Oswald was set up and eating lunch in the lunch room, as Carolyn Arnold witnessed, and that Stanton's witnessing corroborates this...5:42 is very important...It shows that Oswald told Sarah that he wasn't going upstairs he was going back into the break room where Carolyn Arnold would see him shortly after...Listen closely...Rosa doesn't say "out" she says "up"...


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Take another look at Ochus Campbell's SS statement, and read with regards the 2nd floor.


Kamp is trying to force a witnessing that occurred minutes after the shots, after Campbell had gone to the Knoll and back, as occurring at the time of the lunch room encounter...These are the twists of the evidence upon which the Prayer Man theory was born...Kamp also excludes the fact we have witnessing of two Oswald's being at the Depository...


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Carolyn Arnold's statement that she went back for a glass of water has already been undermined not only by the statements of others (leaving together as a group or leaving later and not seeing Oswald in the lunch room), but also due to Gary Murr's scan of the 2nd floor.


When you post that there is actually some metal object visible on the far right side of the lunch room counter and that it might be a small tap Kamp ignores it...The coffee makers had to be filled somewhere...Kamp shows no interest in finding out...

Arnold was pregnant and waited to go out late because she didn't want to stand too long while pregnant...Her story makes sense as far as seeing Oswald alone for a drink only she needed...Her story makes sense because we now have a second witness who put Oswald nearby just prior...



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Add on Roy Lewis' statement that workers were not to have lunch in the 2nd fl lunch room.


I would like people to note that Kamp has had the references to co-workers testifying that Oswald ate in the 2nd floor lunch room regularly, and was seen doing so by several employees like Westbrook and Jacob, told to him repeatedly yet he still goes back to the false claim that Oswald was not allowed to eat there...Oswald was not a regular worker...He was a CIA spook that Colonel Byrd employee Roy Truly knew was an exception...It is clear Kamp is consciously avoiding admitting that Oswald was in the 2nd floor lunch room that day like he often was...


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Doyle demands that I juxtapose Stanton's forearm over the Prayer Man photo I showed, he wants me to be Jack White and stretch things to a believable result..... a more than 300 pound woman with grey hair..........sure. Doyle shows his lack of skill when it comes to photographic matters.


Says Kamp while avoiding simply doing so...The Education Forum is amazing because if anyone else dared mock the fact he refused to compare obvious evidence and still refused to do so even after discussing it, they would be heckled and called-out on it...Not so with the Prayer Man bullies where such a patently dishonest move is left unchallenged and a comparison that would instantly show a scientific matching of the two images is allowed to not be shown...Easier to ban the opposition I guess...


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I know where Sarah went, having a good look down Elm after the shots had been fired. Look how short that woman is in comparison with the woman below her to her right and Ruth Dean and Maddie Reese who stood way lower on those steps


Again, the Education Forum allows Kamp to show open contempt for Buell Frazier's detailed description of Sarah being up on the landing and back in the shadows - neither of which fits Kamp's ridiculous choice for Stanton who is not only down the steps behind Frazier but in bright sun...Kamp's choice is the desperate attempt to get around the Prayer Man evidence that it is...If we then go to Frazier's description of Sarah's location we see Prayer Man fits it to a T...All OK to ignore on the Education Forum while hijacking the subject to irrelevant Prayer Man minutia...

Kamp outright ignores the timing of Gloria Calvery that has Frazier looking at her at that instant...Mark Knight ignores that this isn't speculation since Frazier says "looking at"...

I forgot to mention: I think Oswald may have seen Jarman and Norman going up the staircase and was never in the Domino Room...Oswald knew they had to come through the back door to get there...
« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 07:10:22 PM by Brian Doyle »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #493 on: June 23, 2018, 08:07:21 PM »
Ah ha...Sure...Baker encountered Oswald in the foyer and the many people who ducked-in to the Depository at the same time all missed him? That's not what the original Prayer Man Oh, wait...I remember now...The men in black made them all stay quiet...

How many people saw and testified to LHO's exit from the Depository building? None! Does that mean LHO never left the building and his skeleton is still in there?

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The Oswald in the utility closet seen by Campbell was minutes later after Campbell had gone to the Knoll...

Yes, and that's exactly what the original Prayer Man theory, of which you know little or nothing, stated! Baker raced up the entrance steps, asked LHO if he worked there (as he, Baker, wanted someone to show him to the stairs), then Truly stepped up and took over. (Read Harry Holmes's testimony!) At some point AFTER that, LHO was noticed in a small storage room on the ground floor!

Offline Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #494 on: June 23, 2018, 08:17:40 PM »
How many people saw and testified to LHO's exit from the Depository building? None! Does that mean LHO never left the building and his skeleton is still in there?

Yes, and that's exactly what the original Prayer Man theory, of which you know little or nothing, stated! Baker raced up the entrance steps, asked LHO if he worked there (as he, Baker, wanted someone to show him to the stairs), then Truly stepped up and took over. (Read Harry Holmes's testimony!) At some point AFTER that, LHO was noticed in a small storage room on the ground floor!

HarryHolmes Testimony:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/holmes1.htm

Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #495 on: June 23, 2018, 08:31:43 PM »
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How many people saw and testified to LHO's exit from the Depository building? None! Does that mean LHO never left the building and his skeleton is still in there?


There's good reason to think both Oswald's exited the rear...There was a woman witness to Roger Craig's Oswald who said he came from the rear of the building...Frazier said his Oswald came from the rear exit up Houston...This would make sense since there is also witnessing to Oswald being told to wait at the front door...


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Yes, and that's exactly what the original Prayer Man theory, of which you know little or nothing, stated! Baker raced up the entrance steps, asked LHO if he worked there (as he, Baker, wanted someone to show him to the stairs), then Truly stepped up and took over. (Read Harry Holmes's testimony!) At some point AFTER that, LHO was noticed in a small storage room on the ground floor!


Again, you are asserting your very loose interpretation while ignoring everything I just wrote...It is plain silly to suggest Baker confronted Oswald on the front steps without being seen by the dozens of witnesses seen in Darnell...You ignore the exposure your nutty claim requires to Oswald being seen...Anyone can see you avoid providing specific detail as to exactly where this occurred exactly because you are aware of this serious conflict...

Holmes wasn't there...Like Biffle, he mixed up second hand information...However Holmes did accurately record Oswald coming "downstairs" to the lobby (which means he was upstairs in the lunch room before doing so)...

There is nothing behind your allegation that Baker confronted Oswald on the steps or in the lobby besides you saying so...Again - we are only discussing this because some uncredible minds were trying to make excuses for the real encounter that happened on the 2nd floor...





Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #496 on: June 23, 2018, 08:59:15 PM »

There's good reason to think both Oswald's exited the rear...

Both Oswalds?  :D

Not a single person testified to seeing LHO exit the building--------
he wasn't famous yet!
Geddit now, Brian?

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It is plain silly to suggest Baker confronted Oswald on the front steps without being seen by the dozens of witnesses seen in Darnell...

Baker confronted LHO? Not what I said! Re-read my last post  :-[

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Holmes wasn't there...

Of course not, but unlike you or me he was at one of the interrogations! He clearly remembered LHO saying the encounter with the police officer happened on the FIRST floor, at the FRONT ENTRANCE or in the VESTIBULE. It just so happens we have a LHO-resembling man up on the entrance steps at the time Baker is heading for the entrance. Folks have spent the last FIVE YEARS trying and failing miserably to identify him as AnyoneButOswald! Now here's a thought: maybe it IS Oswald...  Thumb1:

Online Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #497 on: June 23, 2018, 09:23:00 PM »


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Not a single person testified to seeing LHO exit the building--------
he wasn't famous yet!
Geddit now, Brian?


Except for Frazier and the woman who saw Roger Craig's Oswald...



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Baker confronted LHO? Not what I said! Re-read my last post  :-[


"Baker raced up the entrance steps, asked LHO if he worked there (as he, Baker, wanted someone to show him to the stairs), then Truly stepped up and took over."

Confronting your trolling isn't worth my time...Alan resorts to the ignoring my point about the number of people who would have witnessed this and goes right to the aggressive question asking in order to avoid the point method of classic trolls...



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Of course not, but unlike you or me he was at one of the interrogations! He clearly remembered LHO saying the encounter with the police officer happened on the FIRST floor, at the FRONT ENTRANCE or in the VESTIBULE. It just so happens we have a LHO-resembling man up on the entrance steps at the time Baker is heading for the entrance. Folks have spent the last FIVE YEARS trying and failing miserably to identify him as AnyoneButOswald! Now here's a thought: maybe it IS Oswald...  Thumb1:


You are not accurately relating the witnessing...The encounter you are referring to was when Oswald came down from the lunch room where he was encountered by Baker and was once again confronted by police who were guarding the front door and did not let him leave..."2nd floor lunch when officer came in"...

The "vestibule" is the small enclosure over the lunch room...Nowhere is the lobby or foyer ever referred to as vestibule...That is an invention of Bart Kamp who is trying to reverse nomenclature to make his dishonest theory work...

There's no reason to take the ignoring of the evidence that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton seriously...


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #498 on: June 23, 2018, 09:36:41 PM »


Except for Frazier and the woman who saw Roger Craig's Oswald...

Show us their testimony, Brian!


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"Baker raced up the entrance steps, asked LHO if he worked there (as he, Baker, wanted someone to show him to the stairs), then Truly stepped up and took over."

Exactly! Not a confrontation
-----------Baker simply wanted someone to show him to the nearest stairs!

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You are not accurately relating the witnessing...The encounter you are referring to was when Oswald came down from the lunch room where he was encountered by Baker and was once again confronted by police who were guarding the front door and did not let him leave..."2nd floor lunch when officer came in"...

Wrong. Holmes puts the Baker-Truly-LHO lunchroom encounter in the correct location
-----------front entrance/vestibule!

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The "vestibule" is the small enclosure over the lunch room...Nowhere is the lobby or foyer ever referred to as vestibule...That is an invention of Bart Kamp who is trying to reverse nomenclature to make his dishonest theory work...

Well then it must be an invention of all the modern English dictionaries too!
Vestibule = front lobby, foyer of a building

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There's no reason to take the ignoring of the evidence that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton seriously...

I agree, it's obvious that all the Prayer Man images of Sarah Stanton have been photoshopped by the evil Jim di Eugenio to make her hair look the WRONG COLOR!
 :D

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #499 on: June 23, 2018, 10:06:47 PM »
Back to the first FBI interrogation report!

OSWALD stated that he went to lunch at approximately noon and he claimed he ate his lunch on the first floor in the lunch room; however he went to the second floor where the Coca?Cola machine was located and obtained a bottle of Coca?Cola for his lunch. OSWALD claimed to be on the first floor when President JOHN F. KENNEDY passed this building.

Two very weird omissions here...
1--------------------NADA about an encounter with a police officer
2--------------------NADA about where exactly on the first floor LHO claimed to have been

Together, Sarah Stanton and Harry Holmes EXPLAIN these omissions...
1+2-------------------LHO told Captain Fritz he bought a coke in the second floor lunchroom BEFORE the shooting, came downstairs, was on the first floor at the time of the shooting and had an encounter with a policeman at or near the front entrance VERY SHORTLY after it. This caused panic! The investigators didn't know what to do with the policeman encounter because they knew it gave the Commie suspect his alibi! So the first report had to fudge the issue?

By the time of the next report, the Commie suspect was dead and a solution of sorts had been found: Let's put the encounter in the second floor lunchroom!
« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 10:10:07 PM by Alan Ford »

 

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