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Author Topic: Prayer Woman  (Read 276384 times)

Offline Michael Clark

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4770 on: August 04, 2019, 01:45:26 AM »
Here Fritz furthers what he was trying to say when ....

... Notice Hosty doesn't refer to which floor the lunch room was on...

Excellent! A posting worthy of consideration by Mr. Doyle. Only two mentions of Kamp, and no narcissistic self aggrandizing statements. As an added bonus, some testimony. Hats off to Brian. I look forward to more of this.

Cheers, Michael

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4770 on: August 04, 2019, 01:45:26 AM »

Offline Brian Doyle

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« Reply #4771 on: August 04, 2019, 05:19:19 PM »
Fritz Commission Testimony:

Mr. BALL. At that time didn't you know that one of your officers, Baker, had seen Oswald
on the second floor?
Mr. FRITZ. They told me about that down at the bookstore; I believe Mr. Truly or
someone told me about it, told me they had met him--I think he told me, person who
told me about, I believe told me that they met him on the stairway, but our
investigation shows that he actually saw him in a lunchroom, a little lunchroom where
they were eating, and he held his gun on this man and Mr. Truly told him that he
worked there, and the officer let him go.
Mr. BALL. Did you question Oswald about that?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; I asked him about that and he knew that the officer stopped him all
right.
Mr. BALL. Did you ask him what he was doing in the lunchroom?
Mr. FRITZ. He said he was having his lunch. He had a cheese sandwich and a Coca-Cola.
Mr. BALL. Did he tell you he was up there to get a Coca-Cola?
Mr. FRITZ. He said he had a Coca-Cola.

Anyone who was honestly investigating this would see Ball was trying to keep Fritz on script by leading him in to saying Oswald went up from the 1st floor to get the Coke but then took it back to the 1st floor...There is no doubt that the linguistic forensics of what Fritz answered with says with no equivocation that Oswald ate his lunch in the 2nd floor lunch room and even described what he had...

Bart Kamp is being given preferred access to the main assassination research community unchallenged...In his latest 'Anatomy Of Oswald's Interrogations' paper he ignores the true context of Fritz's Commission statement to Ball and tries to spin Fritz's Commission interview in to saying Oswald was Prayer Man (like he does with everything)...Kamp is like Donald Trump...No matter how many times he violates research decorum the main assassination research community looks the other way...And no matter how many times I show correct evidence I am attacked and accused of what Kamp is doing...The reason for this is because 95% of that community came down on the side of Parker/Murphy and some of them (like David Josephs) were openly saying Prayer Man absolutely was Oswald...I have noticed that Josephs has stopped saying Prayer Man was Oswald and the obvious reason is the proof I've been posting....That 95% will never admit it or honestly give me credit for it because there are a few internet posters who make sure I am constantly harassed and my main information is ignored by means of those constant attacks and focusing on contrived offenses, when Kamp can openly get away with anything and it's no problem with those same persons...Disproving 95% of the community is a rough road...

In any case, once you see Fritz's more than clear wording above it becomes clear that Carolyn Arnold also saw Oswald set up and eating a cheese sandwich in the 2nd floor lunch room at 12:24 - 12:25...Sarah Stanton saw Oswald out on the 2nd floor staircase landing itching to get back in to the 2nd floor lunch room with an already-bought Coke (a landmark discovery that the 95% make sure gets ignored and I get no credit for)...Oswald was obviously waiting for Mrs Reid and the other ladies to leave before going back in...Carolyn Arnold then saw Oswald in there because she was a wild card Oswald didn't expect...Arnold saw Oswald eating lunch with his Coke on the table...

It was in this place that Oswald heard the shots but couldn't leave his assigned post...He heard Truly shout for the elevator and not wanting to leave his post went to the vestibule door window to look out at the staircase landing...He saw Truly cruise past but suddenly a cop appeared from the stairs on to the 2nd floor staircase landing and he flinched back from the vestibule window...Baker saw this guilty flinching and his cop instincts immediately homed in on it...Oswald flinched because he was an Intel player in the Depository who especially didn't want any interaction with any police that might look in to him and his background...

Baker could not tell the true story of how he detected Oswald and if you look at his Commission testimony he gets very vague and hems and haws when asked exactly how he saw Oswald...Baker had to hide the flinching part because it would make the scenario I am describing here clear and show that Oswald was stationary in the vestibule window after having come from the lunch room and did not just run down from the 6th floor...

The reason Baker omitted Oswald's true location in his 1st day affidavit was because the conspirators knew Baker's witnessing exonerated Oswald...Baker, like Carolyn Arnold, was an unexpected wild card who showed up in a gray zone they had expected they could hide Oswald's doings within...If you look at the quote of Ball interviewing Fritz you can see Fritz also noticeably hems and haws when asked how he heard of Oswald being in the 2nd floor lunch room...Fritz doesn't exactly remember who told him and kind of blurs between Truly and Baker without mentioning Baker's name...The reason Fritz does that is because he knows Baker was guilty of concealing it at first by changing it to 3rd or 4th floor staircase landing in order to conceal the true exonerating 2nd floor lunch room location...

Oswald was killed because the conspirators knew they had a problem with Baker's witnessing and Fritz's interrogation...FBI handled it by altering Carolyn Arnold's interview...

Kamp never explained why, after several years of saying Baker never ran in to the Depository, he is now saying Baker ran in and saw Oswald as Prayer Man on the way in his latest paper...And the 95% have no problem with this direct contradiction and unaccounted-for flip flop...
« Last Edit: August 04, 2019, 06:42:34 PM by Brian Doyle »

Offline Brian Doyle

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« Reply #4772 on: August 04, 2019, 07:05:13 PM »

Kamp has recently shown a video of Jimmy Darnell in an NBC archive looking at films...

If you look closely, the box Darnell takes that film from clearly says "March 1974" on it...So I'm not sure that is either the Darnell or Wiegman film like Kamp claims...

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« Reply #4772 on: August 04, 2019, 07:05:13 PM »

Offline Patrick Jackson

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4773 on: August 04, 2019, 10:18:37 PM »
                                                                                             


Which clip is correct? Take a look at 18:25 time mark.
Was Sarah standing left or right? Looking at BWF hand watch and wedding ring, seems Sarah was standing to his left?
http://youtu.be/i5OnBary KampATeSE
« Last Edit: August 04, 2019, 10:23:00 PM by Patrick Jackson »

Offline Brian Doyle

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« Reply #4774 on: August 04, 2019, 11:45:05 PM »
Bart Kamp just posted the ultimate concession today on his Prayer Man website...A self-exposing ad hominem attack by a person who can't answer my latest shredding of his garbage Oswald Interrogations paper:

Quote
Goodbye Brian Doyle
 
Regular visitors know that I have what some may describe as a nemesis named Brain Doyle. Doyle hails from Sanibel Fl. and has made it his mission to stalk whatever I write about and reports about it in the most negative way, he does this on his Prayer Woman Page on FB or at the JFK Assassination forum when not being banned there. I myself am no angel and have retorted in my own harsh way, but Doyle posted a video of himself recently and that took things to a new level that it is wise to officially announce my retirement from interacting in any possible way with Brian Doyle.

His postings have become so irate that he has managed to get himself kicked off forums such as the Education Forum, the Deep Politics Forum, Amazon (hundreds of trolling posts were deleted while using 3 IDs) and this July he was thrown of the JFKAssassinationforum 3x in that very month and in April and May temporary banned as well. When I do an interview on a podcast or radio show I know Doyle will be commenting, He does not produce one shred of proof in his word salad postings and has made many enemies along the line doing so.

What made me make this decision, well the video did. It is just so creepy and weird that I get visions of him driving around with his trunk filled with rope, duct tape and black bin liners and that is enough for me.

I ask Brian Doyle not to try and interact with me in any way and I won’t do it either as I would not want to have any contact with you in person so that goes for online as well.

Goodbye Brian Doyle.

Bart Kamp is a cornucopia of misrepresentation and inaccuracy...He continues that streak unaltered in the post above...Yes, I have been criticizing Kamp for the last few years because he has been posting false information on Prayer Man and misleading the community...Kamp has been ignoring the correct evidence that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton and has been orchestrating a public smear campaign against me on JFK assassination websites...Above he is trying to use the kiddie lampooning of the knuckleheads on his website to imply I have posted a nutty video on JFK websites...The video of me Kamp shows is me washing my car on Sanibel in fall 2016...I posted it then to my personal Facebook page and never posted it anywhere else...The reason it showed up on Kamp's websites is because the goons over there were trying to harass me and make me look bad instead of answering my latest refutation of Kamp's latest garbage...Kamp is a liar and deliberate misrepresenter...I never recently posted that and it was his juvenile delinquent members who took it from my Facebook page and posted it...I think it is obvious to many of us that this punch drunk throwing of the towel from Kamp is in reaction to a knock out blow in my latest criticisms of his paper... 

Kamp's version of my removal from Amazon is equally inaccurate...After disproving Stan Dane's Prayer Man book Kamp's members took the dishonest route of falsely reporting me to Amazon as spam trolling under different handles...I did use the handles "BrianDoyle" and "Ralph Yates" to remain anonymous for research reasons...It's not like good researchers haven't done that before in order to protect their research...A gullible Amazon moderator took them seriously and deleted my posts and banned me...I'm sure I am not the only researcher who could report being mistreated by Amazon moderators...My removal from the Education and Deep Politics forums was because I had disproven the majority there on Prayer Man...My skill was rewarded with banning...

Kamp is pretending I am being too irate as if there is something wrong with me that brings my being banned on myself...Nope...That's disproven by the fact Kamp would write such an obvious exposing of himself in this post above while not answering my reasonable criticisms of his essay...Like Jim D, Kamp depends on censorship and false accusations to avoid answering correct criticisms of his "work"...He calls my field-leading research on Prayer Man "word salads" because their arguments are obviously over his head and he doesn't understand them...(or more likely doesn't want to admit what they prove and tries the pathetic escape route of mockery)...Don't be fooled by Kamp...The only reason he does this is because he refuses to answer why for years he said Baker never ran inside but then said he ran inside in his latest article...Misery loves company and Kamp is calling to the crowd but his lack of any response to my criticisms of his latest paper says more than anything and he can't muster any response to my correct information...

His use of the video that has nothing to do with anything only ranks Kamp as a cheap ad hom smearer who resorts to such lowbrow tactics when confronted by fatal flaws I have listed in his false papers...He's doing this because unconsciously he's aware that my latest highlights from his "Oswald Interrogation" paper destroys his cherry-picking and false spin and shows his own evidence actually showed the opposite of what he was trying to prove and showed Oswald was in the 2nd floor lunch room as Fritz plainly indicated...

So Bart, I guess what you are saying is you aren't going to give any honest answer to the fact the Darnell Film you are claiming Jimmy Darnell is looking at in your latest post over at your Prayer Man page comes from a box that says "March 1974" in plain letters and therefore is most likely not the Darnell or Wiegman original???

And you have nerve accusing me of stalking you considering you have a special stalking thread that anyone can read designated for myself with some of the worst juvenile trolling I have ever seen on the internet let alone on a so-called research site...Not to mention you posted photos of my mother in a padded rubber room...Posting photos of a researcher's mother is pretty low and ranks the doer...

It is really pathetic watching the painfully obvious psychology of someone who doesn't want to admit I have proven Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton who is obviously battling over their unconscious awareness of it with their own self internally while trying not to admit it to theirself and blame me...Don't worry Bart...You have nothing to worry about...You will be given unlimited ability to do this elsewhere and get away with it...

It is Bush League material for you to suddenly flip flop and have Baker running inside in your latest paper with no attempt to account for it...But is it even worse Bush League material for you to try to get away with it with the above...
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 12:25:15 AM by Brian Doyle »

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« Reply #4774 on: August 04, 2019, 11:45:05 PM »

Offline Brian Doyle

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« Reply #4775 on: August 06, 2019, 04:59:16 PM »
Bart Kamp has posted an article on Jimmy Darnell on his Prayer Man website...The article shows Darnell looking in the film archive of an NBC affiliate in Dallas and looking at a reel of film...Kamp says the film is the Wiegman film however I can't tell from looking at the frames...I'm not sure that is the Wiegman film because you can look closely and there is nothing definite to show what it is...To add doubt the box that Jimmy Darnell has taken that reel of film from clearly says "March 1974", making it less likely the film in question is the Wiegman film...

At the end of the article Kamp writes that the Darnell film started 15 to 20 seconds after the Wiegman film...Kamp, once again, offers badly inaccurate facts in his articles...The Darnell film starts 25 to 30 seconds after the last shot...This is proven by the extent of progress of both Officer Baker and Gloria Calvery...Very simply for Calvery to be walking up the steps with Carol Reed, like she is seen doing in the Darnell film, would require the time to have elapsed to at least 25-30 seconds after the last shot when you consider the distances and the fact Calvery stopped to talk to Lovelady & Shelley at the base of the steps before they went up the Elm St extension...The only reason Kamp underestimates the time period of Darnell is because he's trying to bend the evidence towards Prayer Man being Oswald...Kamp still hasn't admitted that is Calvery in the Darnell film...And the uncredible community doesn't ask him...They have no embarrassment over banning the person who showed them the correct evidence against their self destructive stubborness...

A week ago Kamp put out a lengthy 331 page "Oswald's Interrogations" paper...It fell with a dead flop because the rest of the Assassination research community realizes Kamp is a bogus source and his Prayer Man theory is BS...Not a single person responded to Kamp's posting of the paper because they know I have proven Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton, only being the uncredible researchers they are they aren't beyond holding a childish personal grudge against you for doing what they call for but aren't beneath shunning you for doing it effectively...Especially when it disproves their recklessly incautious approval of the sexy Prayer Man theory that was sold by con men Greg Parker and Sean Murphy to the gullible research community that was all too willing to buy that bogus theory without considering its serious flaws...Typical of Kamp, realizing he lost and his theory was dead he rationalized in his mind that I was somehow at fault for proving the facts and posted an embarrassing "Goodbye Brian Doyle" article on his Prayer Man page...It says a lot about Kamp and how he processes things (especially evidence) that he sees himself as ordering how reality should be and ordering people away...The fact still stands that instead of answering why he suddenly reversed and admitted that Baker ran in to the Depository past Prayer Man in this latest paper he decided to erase the only person who was credible enough to ask him to account for that...Kamp is a person, who long after it is proven and now obvious that Prayer Man is Stanton, is still buck naked on his conquistador horse out there charging the imaginary windmills of Oswald being on the front steps as Prayer Man with portly Pancho DiEugenio tending his effort...What is really embarrassing is seeing how he now reaps the same ignoring as Cinque but instead of honestly admitting it turns with his imaginary authority and tries to order his vanquisher off the plain of truth...     
« Last Edit: August 07, 2019, 06:33:02 AM by Brian Doyle »

Offline Mark A. Oblazney

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4776 on: August 07, 2019, 12:43:14 PM »
Bart Kamp has posted an article on Jimmy Darnell on his Prayer Man website...The article shows Darnell looking in the film archive of an NBC affiliate in Dallas and looking at a reel of film...Kamp says the film is the Wiegman film however I can't tell from looking at the frames...I'm not sure that is the Wiegman film because you can look closely and there is nothing definite to show what it is...To add doubt the box that Jimmy Darnell has taken that reel of film from clearly says "March 1974", making it less likely the film in question is the Wiegman film...

At the end of the article Kamp writes that the Darnell film started 15 to 20 seconds after the Wiegman film...Kamp, once again, offers badly inaccurate facts in his articles...The Darnell film starts 25 to 30 seconds after the last shot...This is proven by the extent of progress of both Officer Baker and Gloria Calvery...Very simply for Calvery to be walking up the steps with Carol Reed, like she is seen doing in the Darnell film, would require the time to have elapsed to at least 25-30 seconds after the last shot when you consider the distances and the fact Calvery stopped to talk to Lovelady & Shelley at the base of the steps before they went up the Elm St extension...The only reason Kamp underestimates the time period of Darnell is because he's trying to bend the evidence towards Prayer Man being Oswald...Kamp still hasn't admitted that is Calvery in the Darnell film...And the uncredible community doesn't ask him...They have no embarrassment over banning the person who showed them the correct evidence against their self destructive stubborness...

A week ago Kamp put out a lengthy 331 page "Oswald's Interrogations" paper...It fell with a dead flop because the rest of the Assassination research community realizes Kamp is a bogus source and his Prayer Man theory is BS...Not a single person responded to Kamp's posting of the paper because they know I have proven Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton, only being the uncredible researchers they are they aren't beyond holding a childish personal grudge against you for doing what they call for but aren't beneath shunning you for doing it effectively...Especially when it disproves their recklessly incautious approval of the sexy Prayer Man theory that was sold by con men Greg Parker and Sean Murphy to the gullible research community that was all too willing to buy that bogus theory without considering its serious flaws...Typical of Kamp, realizing he lost and his theory was dead he rationalized in his mind that I was somehow at fault for proving the facts and posted an embarrassing "Goodbye Brian Doyle" article on his Prayer Man page...It says a lot about Kamp and how he processes things (especially evidence) that he sees himself as ordering how reality should be and ordering people away...The fact still stands that instead of answering why he suddenly reversed and admitted that Baker ran in to the Depository past Prayer Man in this latest paper he decided to erase the only person who was credible enough to ask him to account for that...Kamp is a person, who long after it is proven and now obvious that Prayer Man is Stanton, is still buck naked on his conquistador horse out there charging the imaginary windmills of Oswald being on the front steps as Prayer Man with portly Pancho DiEugenio tending his effort...What is really embarrassing is seeing how he now reaps the same ignoring as Cinque but instead of honestly admitting it turns with his imaginary authority and tries to order his vanquisher off the plain of truth...   

Dang....... chill, Albert.  Well I still think it was a dude taking pictures with a camera.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4776 on: August 07, 2019, 12:43:14 PM »

Offline Brian Doyle

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« Reply #4777 on: August 07, 2019, 05:32:59 PM »
Kamp, like DiEugenio, has now self-appointed himself as infallible and is now officially not answering for any of his glaringly-wrong claims...The JFK research community is now a group that dares call itself credible to the point of crudely booting good researchers off their boards while at the same time not caring that Kamp now has Baker running inside the Depository after years of saying he never ran in...And if Kamp has Darnell pulling the Wiegman film out of a box clearly labeled "March 1974" that's OK too...Kamp has achieved infallible sacred cow status and his rotten claims now go officially unopposed...This special status is achieved by selective banning and ignoring, which is what JFK social media is really about and not good research...

On page 132 of his 'Oswald's Interrogations' paper Kamp is now signing straight on, once again, in the vein of firm Lone Nutterism, with Lt Day of the Dallas Police and saying a paraffin test of the cheek in the case of a rifle is useless...Kamp ignores the fact FBI Turner found extensive gunpowder nitrate residue on the cheek casts of 7 out of 7 FBI volunteers who fired a Carcano...Again - no upkeep of accuracy standards on Kamp's input from the JFK research community who seem more interested in chumming up to Kamp than keeping him honest...I appear to be the only one reading his latest paper... 
« Last Edit: August 07, 2019, 05:34:24 PM by Brian Doyle »

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« Reply #4777 on: August 07, 2019, 05:32:59 PM »

Offline Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4778 on: August 07, 2019, 06:25:04 PM »

Mr. Ball. with reference to where he as at the time the President was shot, did he tell you what floor of the building he was on?
Mr. Fritz. I feel sure that he told me he was on the second floor.
Mr. Ball. Look at 136B.
Mr. Fritz. All right, sir.
Mr. Ball. The second paragraph down, 136B. yes, Sir.
Fritz. Yes, sir; second floor sir. He said he usually worked on the first floor. I asked him what part of the building at the time the president was shot. He said he was having lunch at about this time on the first floor.”

Hosty:

Oswald told Captain Fritz that he went to lunch at approximately noon on the 22nd of November, ate his lunch in the lunchroom, and had gone and gotten a Coca Cola from the Coca Cola machine to have with his lunch. He claimed that he was in the lunchroom at the time President Kennedy passed the building.   

Notice Hosty doesn't refer to which floor the lunch room was on...

As I have read the LeeHarveyOswald Interrogation notes before, I have always felt maybe something actually stated by LHO had been left out, and either the Interrogator, or the NoteTaker had added to, or misinterpreted what what was stated. Why did DetectiveFritz testify that LHO had stated that he had been on the 2nd floor as the Motorcade passed the TSBD Bldg, but then "allow" himself to "re-testify" that LHO was actually having lunch on the 1st Floor instead? Seemingly, at least to me, the small DominoRoom/BreakRoom also sufficed as a LunchBreak location, on the 1st Floor, for the Non-Management LaborForce Employees.

In any event, "he(LHO) went to lunch at approximately noon
on the 22nd of November, ate his lunch in the lunchroom, and had gone and gotten a Coca-Cola from the Coca-Cola machine to have with his lunch". So, the LHO "went to lunch" time is an estimate that, accordingly, AgentHosty said DetectiveFritz said LHO had told him. However, could LHO have "went to lunch" at 12:15pm? And, what was the time when he "ate his lunch"?

Indications are that LHO was in the 2nd Floor Lunchroom, had purchased a Coca-Cola/Soft-Drink from the Coca-Cola/Soft-Drink machine, and the SecondFloor LunchRoomEncounter
occurred at about 12:31pm. And, what is meant by "with his lunch"? Certainly, "with" could have meant "during", but it could also have meant "following", especially considering that AgentHosty said that DetectiveFritz said that LHO told him, based on notes likely made at different times.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2019, 06:26:06 PM by Larry Trotter »

Offline Brian Doyle

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« Reply #4779 on: August 07, 2019, 06:45:00 PM »
As I have read the LeeHarveyOswald Interrogation notes before, I have always felt maybe something actually stated by LHO had been left out, and either the Interrogator, or the NoteTaker had added to, or misinterpreted what what was stated. Why did DetectiveFritz testify that LHO had stated that he had been on the 2nd floor as the Motorcade passed the TSBD Bldg, but then "allow" himself to "re-testify" that LHO was actually having lunch on the 1st Floor instead? Seemingly, at least to me, the small DominoRoom/BreakRoom also sufficed as a LunchBreak location, on the 1st Floor, for the Non-Management LaborForce Employees.

In any event, "he(LHO) went to lunch at approximately noon
on the 22nd of November, ate his lunch in the lunchroom, and had gone and gotten a Coca-Cola from the Coca-Cola machine to have with his lunch". So, the LHO "went to lunch" time is an estimate that, accordingly, AgentHosty said DetectiveFritz said LHO had told him. However, could LHO have "went to lunch" at 12:15pm? And, what was the time when he "ate his lunch"?

Indications are that LHO was in the 2nd Floor Lunchroom, had purchased a Coca-Cola/Soft-Drink from the Coca-Cola/Soft-Drink machine, and the SecondFloor LunchRoomEncounter
occurred at about 12:31pm. And, what is meant by "with his lunch"? Certainly, "with" could have meant "during", but it could also have meant "following", especially considering that AgentHosty said that DetectiveFritz said that LHO told him, based on notes likely made at different times.

I have to imagine if Sarah Stanton told her relatives that Oswald had a Coke out on the 2nd floor staircase landing when she left the 2nd floor lunch room that the Coke was purchased well before the time of the Lunch Room Encounter...It seems clear to me that Stanton almost certainly told FBI of this encounter with Oswald and they purposefully omitted it...Why would Sarah Stanton not tell FBI of this simple encounter?...It doesn't make sense...If Stanton was freely telling of seeing Oswald by the staircase to relatives it seems she would have done so with FBI as well...It is equally clear to me that FBI omitted it because they knew that it showed an Oswald who was waiting for Mrs Reid and the other ladies to leave the 2nd floor lunch room so he could go in there...Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald in there right after Stanton and FBI altered her statement for the same reason...This is the context of Fritz's telling Ball that Oswald told him he was in that 2nd floor lunch room during the shots...Ball knew the danger and went right to damage control mode by referencing the text of the official story to get Fritz back in line...A credible interviewer who was actually seeking the truth would have followed through and asked Fritz if Oswald told him he was in the 2nd floor lunch room during the shots - which Oswald clearly did...The 2nd floor lunch room was the same place Carolyn Arnold, Baker, & Truly saw Oswald...

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« Reply #4779 on: August 07, 2019, 06:45:00 PM »

 

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