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Author Topic: Prayer Woman  (Read 276536 times)

Offline Ray Mitcham

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4760 on: July 30, 2019, 09:46:50 PM »
Bill Newman pointing the wrong way.


JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4760 on: July 30, 2019, 09:46:50 PM »

Offline Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4761 on: July 31, 2019, 06:50:48 PM »
As previously posted:

"Notably, research has now developed evidence indicative of SarahStanton as being the person represented by PrayerPersonImage aka PrayerWomanImage."

Research(noun):diligent and systematic inquiry into a subject in order to discover or revise facts, theories, etc.
Evidence(noun):the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
Indicating(verb):to be a sign of;betoken;evidence;show:
Indicative(adjective):serving as a sign or indication of something.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/exhibits/ce1434.htm
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/lovelady.htm
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/frazierb1.htm
https://i2.wp.com/www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/WH_Vol22_0353a-FBI-STATEMENT-March-18-1964.jpg
https://i0.wp.com/www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/211163-fbi-interview.png
https://i1.wp.com/www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/WH_Vol22_0351b.jpg

As noted, a partial rendering of research developed indicative evidence that  indicates SarahStanton is the person represented by PrayerPersonImage aka PrayerWomanImage.

As I have previously stated, I make no claim to be a "Researcher", but maintain that I remain a "Student of The Research" into the murder by assassination of JohnFitzgeraldKennedySr, and the critical wounding of JohnBowdenConnallyJr, as well as the murder of JdTippit, and the murder of LeeHarveyOswald two days later.

That junk has been around for almost six decades and everyone that you'd call even half a researcher has been over it three or four times at least, so are you saying that it has only "recently developed" IN YOUR MIND?  Ahh, I see.  Welcome to the case.  May I ask what you were doing all these years before PM became an issue?

Witness testimony doesn't mean as much as it used to.  You're stuck in the past and you won't even begin to look for a way out of that nasty little hole you are caught in.  Even if the prosectution wasn't biased as it was, you'd still be playing a dangerous game by throwing the word "evidence" around when referring to testimony.  Circumstantial is what it is, at best.  We have far better stuff pointing us all to the Grassy Knoll.

Perhaps BarryPollard considers himself a "Researcher", if so maybe he can articulate the difference between his expertise and that of "Half a Researcher". But, either way, if he wishes to dispute sworn statements and testimony by witnesses, unless he can provide indicative evidence confirming the validity of said dispute, his statement is just an opinion that said witnesses are either lying or mistaken.

Larry you haven't any experience in image manipulation, so your opinion in this field isn't really worth reading let alone remembering but here's the point.  Brian produced taped evidence that the face he likes as Stanton was dismissed by two people that actually knew her and here was your only contribution when I focused on it;

You never corrected your mistake or commented on it again.  Would you care to do so now or talk on it's significance to Brian's overall agenda?  I've already guessed it's a no, so there you go, a chance to prove me wrong, a first.
I can think of no other significant evidence that Brian produced in that "interview" and that's what you call research?  A diligent and systematic inquiry, it was not.  It was agenda driven but that's something else you rather conveniently failed to pick up on right?

I make no claim of expertise and/or experience in image manipulation, nor do I desire such, but I stand on my previous statement confirming, paraphrasing, "I am unable to embrace the authenticity of the PrayerPersonImage 'FacialFeatureEnhancement' often attributed to ChrisDavidson, nor do I afford any 'EvidentiaryValue' for said 'Enhancement'.

BarryPollard's reference to a "never corrected mistake" needs to be explained. Perhaps a reference to an expressed opinion as to the meaning of an interview comment? No surprise, "My Take" and that of BarryPollard will quite often differ.

When BarryPollard states, "I can think of no other significant evidence that Brian produced in that 'interview' and that's what you call research? A diligent and systematic inquiry, it was not. It was agenda driven but that's something else you rather conveniently failed to pick up on right?", I do wonder, as I wander, if there are really a couple of questions asked, or just statement add-ons.

In any event, the referred to "interview" contained much indicative evidentiary information that indicates that SarahDeanStanton is indeed the person represented by PrayerPersonImage. However, the post being replied to by BarryPollard was primarily in reference to "witness testimony", and not to the "interview".
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 03:02:41 AM by Larry Trotter »

Offline Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #4762 on: July 31, 2019, 09:50:07 PM »
Kamp has issued another paper...This one covers all the records of Oswald's interrogations...On page 38 Kamp returns to his previous misquoting of Fritz's notes in order to bend things towards Oswald being Prayer Man:

Claims 2nd floor Coke when
officer came in
to 1st floor had lunch
out with Bill Shelley in
front
 
 “Claims 2nd floor coke when officer came in” Although this may seem clear
cut, it isnt. It doesn’t place Oswald on the 2nd floor at all, it says that he had a
coke from the 2nd floor when a police officer came in. Then as per Sean
Murphy’s theory the “when” word could actually be the start of a new
sentence. See the link at the top of this page.

 “To first floor had lunch” Strenghtens the claim that Oswald had the coke
from the 2nd floor and had made his way down to the 1st
floor. Oswald stated
that he had lunch inside the Domino room. You have to ask yourself how did
Oswald know that James Jarman and possibly Harold Norman were inside that
very same Domino Room or passed through picking up their lunches before
they made their way up to the 5th floor.

 In the same colomn Fritz writes “out with Bill Shelley in front” which can only
be Oswald’s answer as to where he was during the shooting or when the
motorcade passed by.
Again how did Oswald know that Bill Shelley was standing outside in front? It
has been well documented, with Shelley’s statements that he left those steps
immediately after the shooting and went back inside through the side
entrance minutes later and not to be seen outside again until being filmed
escorting Danny Garcia and Bonnie Ray Williams to a squad car outside the
TSBD at about 1:30 PM. Oswald, supposedly, spoke to Shelley about no work
being done this afternoon and left shortly after. If he did speak to Shelley
then it would have been inside the T.S.B.D. and not outside.

 This tightens Oswald’s alibi even more, that he was on the first floor himself as
well.

Kamp's "Anatomy Of Oswald's Interrogations" paper relies on misinterpreting the Fritz notes once again just like before...Even though it is clear that Oswald told Fritz he was in the 2nd floor lunch room with a Coke after the assassination when Baker & Truly confronted him 70 seconds after the last shot, Kamp is going to once again insult the intelligence of the reader and interpret it for them by bending it to mean Oswald was actually telling Fritz that he had gone to the 2nd floor for a Coke and then returned to the first floor when he was describing that Coke and was actually telling Fritz it was a 2nd floor Coke he had in his hand at the time...(Yeah sure Bart...That's the ticket...Yep, 2nd floor Coke where Oswald would provide an awkward unnecessary detail of the Coke's origin)...Of course it couldn't possibly just be a straight description by Oswald of being in the 2nd second floor lunch room 70 seconds after the last shot when Baker & Truly confronted him...

The JFK research community is guilty of complicity in the destruction of its credibility by allowing Bart Kamp to go without his BS being called...It is painfully obvious that Kamp has taken up Parker and Murphy's banner and is continuing the sordid campaign of those evidence defrauders and misleaders of the community and has done so mainly by lack of intelligent resistance from that community...Since 2013 we have been made to endure the dedicated revision of assassination evidence in order to bend things towards Oswald being Prayer Man even though we proved long ago that Prayer Man was Sarah Stanton...

As usual Bart tries to get away with yet another intelligence-insulting gaffe by not registering that Baker (the "officer") came in at least 30 seconds after the shots...In his evidence-bending Kamp forgets that him and DiEugenio have been campaigning for Baker never coming in to the Depository...This is a good example of Kamp's nutty looseness with the evidence that when he needs Baker to complete his deception he suddenly forgets that he has been posting that Baker never went inside and now has him going inside while allegedly running by Oswald as Prayer Man on the landing or in the lobby...Kamp also has Oswald telling Fritz that he was holding a Coke from the 2nd floor when all this happened...Sure Bart - that painfully obvious contortion makes real sense and is obviously your honest interpretation of the Fritz Notes and isn't just a false evidence supporter having the nerve to try to get away with crazy twisting in public...

Meanwhile out in the real world where people are still allowed to think intelligently ALL the witnessing and evidence places Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room during the shooting and after...Sarah Stanton saw Oswald on the 2nd floor staircase landing waiting for the women employees who were with Mrs Reid to leave...When Stanton saw Oswald with a Coke waiting to go in to the lunch room where Carolyn Arnold would see him minutes later, she saw an Oswald who wasn't getting the Coke to bring it down to the front steps...She saw an Oswald who was getting the Coke to bring it in to the 2nd floor lunch room where he was during the shooting...

Bart Kamp doesn't ask exactly when Oswald got that Coke on the 2nd floor since Mrs Reid and the other office worker women were in the lunch room during that time...Kamp is a deliberate deceiver and the community doesn't notice his premeditated lies...The only slot for Oswald to buy that Coke is after Mrs Reid leaves with the other ladies...However dishonest Kamp deliberately avoids mentioning that Oswald was seen with that Coke by Sarah Stanton when the ladies were still in the lunchroom...Therefore he bought it before the ladies were in the lunch room and was seen intending to go back in to that lunch room by Sarah Stanton...So Oswald did not buy it and bring it back downstairs as Kamp alleges...Kamp's scenario below therefore doesn't add up...Furthermore Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald inside the lunch room comfortably set up and eating at that time and not heading downstairs...Baker and Truly saw him in the same place 6 minutes later and he was there in between during the shooting...

No one notices that Kamp is now claiming Baker went in to the Depository in this new claim or asks him to account for how it conflicts with his years-long claim that Baker never went inside...

No one points-out to Kamp that the clumsy description that Oswald was holding a Coke that he bought on the 2nd floor but was now standing on the front steps landing with it simply doesn't wash and grinds under its obvious contrivance...

The Fritz notes only make sense if you read them correctly as meant..."Claims 2nd floor Coke When Officer came in" means exactly what it sounds like despite Kamp's attempt to convince you otherwise...Oswald is claiming he was in the 2nd floor lunch room having a Coke when Baker & Truly came in and confronted him there...This has to be correct because the only way Kamp's interpretation could be correct is if that sentence continued and was actually written: "Claims 2nd floor Coke When Officer came in to 1st floor"...According to Kamp Oswald told Fritz that he was drinking a Coke that he had gotten on the 2nd floor when Baker saw him on the Depository entranceway landing as Baker went in...It is obvious that Kamp's version is a forced contrivance that is trying to make Oswald Prayer Man but it doesn't make sense against the internal dynamics of Fritz's Notes...Kamp furthers his deception by trying to say "when officer came in to 1st floor" is a cohesive separate sentence... When you correctly separate the first two sentences in Fritz's notes you then have "To 1st floor had lunch" as a separate sentence...This makes it clear that Oswald went to the 1st floor from somewhere and that somewhere was the 2nd floor...Kamp is deceptively trying to muddle this obvious meaning in to Oswald getting the Coke from the second floor and then going to the entryway landing where he encounters Baker as he runs in...But the context of the notes clearly prohibits that...But so does all the other witnessing like Mrs Reid who saw Oswald going down to the 1st floor with a Coke after the lunch room encounter...Holmes also echoed this scenario when he told of Oswald being confronted in the lobby and told to step aside...Holmes clearly said Oswald said he came downstairs before that lobby stop and that was from the 2nd floor...Also, why would Fritz write that Oswald had lunch out with Bill Shelley in front but then also write that Oswald told him he ate lunch in the 2nd floor lunch room? That doesn't make sense...What makes sense is the last sentence "Out with Bill Shelley in front" means Oswald went out of the building with Bill Shelley in front...Only Oswald was lying because Shelley let him out the back as Frazier witnessed...Only fools buy in to Kamp's painfully-obvious Rube Goldberg forcing of the Fritz Notes towards Prayer Man being Oswald...
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 10:14:35 PM by Brian Doyle »

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #4762 on: July 31, 2019, 09:50:07 PM »

Offline Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #4763 on: August 01, 2019, 05:00:53 PM »
Mr. BALL. At that time didn't you know that one of your officers, Baker, had seen Oswald
on the second floor?
Mr. FRITZ. They told me about that down at the bookstore; I believe Mr. Truly or
someone told me about it, told me they had met him--I think he told me, person who
told me about, I believe told me that they met him on the stairway, but our
investigation shows that he actually saw him in a lunchroom, a little lunchroom where
they were eating, and he held his gun on this man and Mr. Truly told him that he
worked there, and the officer let him go.
Mr. BALL. Did you question Oswald about that?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; I asked him about that and he knew that the officer stopped him all
right.
Mr. BALL. Did you ask him what he was doing in the lunchroom?
Mr. FRITZ. He said he was having his lunch. He had a cheese sandwich and a Coca-Cola.
Mr. BALL. Did he tell you he was up there to get a Coca-Cola?
Mr. FRITZ. He said he had a Coca-Cola.

What Kamp deceptively ignores in his latest paper is the fact Captain Fritz slipped in his Commission testimony and revealed that Oswald told him he was in the 2nd floor lunch room during the shots...Kamp is lying and is trying to prove that a person he knows is Sarah Stanton, who is standing on the front steps landing platform, is Lee Harvey Oswald...

It is easy to prove this because Fritz makes it clear that Oswald told him he ate his lunch in the second floor lunch room and even tells Fritz what he had...Ball is trying to bait Fritz in to approving of Kamp's false version...Both Kamp and Ball are equal partners on the side of deception and both want Fritz to say Oswald only popped up to the 2nd floor lunch room for a Coke but then went right back down to the 1st floor...However Fritz was an old school police man and didn't like being led in to a lie...If you look closely at Fritz's answer to Ball he refused to go along and simply told Ball Oswald said he had a Coke...What Fritz is telling Ball there is Oswald never went up to get the Coke...He's telling Ball that Oswald got the Coke when he was eating lunch in the 2nd floor lunch room and never took it back downstairs...It is clear in Fritz's language that what he is telling Ball is Oswald told me he got the Coke in the 2nd floor lunch room and then stayed there and ate his lunch...Carolyn Arnold witnessed this and then Baker & Truly 6 minutes later...There can be no other interpretation to Fritz's statement to Ball...Of course a JFK research community that likes being lied to, and doesn't mind Kamp typing 331 pages in order to get around this evidence, makes no complaint about this obvious evidence being ignored...These are people who will tolerate any kind of flagrant dishonesty as long as they don't have to admit wrongness on the Prayer Man theory...Once you press them on it they get their bullying gate-keepers to ban you so they can ignore the correct evidence...

No answer from the Prayer Man cult on how Kamp spent years telling us Baker never went in to the Depository but then turned around and said Baker went past Oswald as Prayer Man on his way in in this latest paper...They are not a very honest or credible bunch..They get past fatal mistakes like this by ignoring and banning, and they act as a group...
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 05:08:12 PM by Brian Doyle »

Offline Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4764 on: August 01, 2019, 06:15:00 PM »
Bill Newman pointing the wrong way.


"Bill Newman pointing the wrong way"?

It appears to me as if he was using his index finger to indicate witnessing a wound to JFK's temple area.

As I recall, a fairly common way of pointing for persons in his age group, and in that era, at least in eastern Texas.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 02:33:46 AM by Larry Trotter »

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4764 on: August 01, 2019, 06:15:00 PM »

Offline Ray Mitcham

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4765 on: August 02, 2019, 10:49:00 AM »
"Bill Newman pointing the wrong way"?

It appears to me as if he was using his index finger to indicate witnessing a wound to JFK's temple area.

As I recall, a fairly common way of pointing for persons in his age group, and in that era, at least in eastern Texas.

Yes, Larry. But he was pointing to his left temple, whereas JFK was shot in the right temple, according to the spokesman at Parkland,
« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 10:49:27 AM by Ray Mitcham »

Offline Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #4766 on: August 02, 2019, 04:33:59 PM »
Jim DiEugenio wrote:

Quote
This really shows that there is a war going on to suppress the facts and also the truth.And no matter how well founded the facts are, they will be treated as wacky  tin foil hat theory.This is how desperate the Power Elite has become. This really worries me.Its a classic "polarization" scheme.  What I mean by that is that the aim is to not allow any kind of intellectual debate about a controversial subject.  The minute it comes up, the reply is : YOU CONSPIRACY THEORIST!And this short circuits the whole process.

Mind you this so-called position against censorship and abuse of power to snuff out truth tellers is coming from somebody who never once honestly discussed my important evidence discoveries on Prayer Man or my discovery of the most important witness in 40 years in Sarah Stanton...The source of this call against censorship and ignoring of truth comes from the person who, when rules were made to erase me from the JFK research community elsewhere, responded that he thought it was justified and a good idea...Jim doesn't really believe what he writes here and when given the opportunity to unfairly destroy a brilliant researcher who seriously advanced the evidence in the assassination he resorts to that very same censorship that he pretends to call out against faster than those he complains about...Nobody has the backbone to confront any of these bullies by saying "What about Brian Doyle?...Didn't you shut him down and silence him when he tried to speak the truth?...How could you pretend to take that position when you did the same thing to Brian Doyle yourself?...

"No mention of Brian Doyle or any of his work can be made here"...No consideration of the loss of good evidence or correct understanding of the assassination this would incur was made...

Jim DiEugenio: "I think it's a good rule"...

Not a single person protested this monstrous betrayal of good evidence...

This is the environment of pure hypocrisy in which Kamp can spend years saying Baker never went in to the Depository but then write that Baker went in past Oswald as Prayer Man in his latest paper with no one saying a word...It is also the purpose of my being censored...       
 

« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 04:38:42 PM by Brian Doyle »

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #4766 on: August 02, 2019, 04:33:59 PM »

Offline Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4767 on: August 02, 2019, 09:36:48 PM »
Bill Newman pointing the wrong way.


 :)
"Bill Newman pointing the wrong way"?

It appears to me as if he was using his index finger to indicate witnessing a wound to JFK's temple area.

As I recall, a fairly common way of pointing for persons in his age group, and in that era, at least in eastern Texas.
Yes, Larry. But he was pointing to his left temple, whereas JFK was shot in the right temple, according to the spokesman at Parkland,

Did you, Ray, happen to notice that a very upset BillNewman was trying to confirm what he had just witnessed as President JohnKennedySr had been mortally wounded and Governor JohnConnallyJr seriously wounded just a few feet away from, and well within bloodstain proximity of, himself and his wife Gayle, and their two young sons?

And, did you, Ray, happen to notice the interview was being conducted by a visibly upset WFAA-TV ProgramDirector/Anchor JayWatson (1925-2001), who himself was nearby and witnessed the chaos in the aftermath of the shooting?

And Ray, did you notice that while being interviewed, BillNewman was holding his younger son, age 2, with JayWatson, in an apparent effort to provide sufficient audio for the interview, positioned against Mr Newman's right arm and holding the microphone next to said arm upper/bicep area, thus blocking mobility of that arm?

Also Ray, as I recall, BillNewman, when asked, indicated that to him it seemed that the shots had been fired from behind his location along, and on the north side of the westbound Elm St curb. And therefor, the direction of travel of the Motorcade should indicate shots fired from the right side of the Limousine Occupants, assuming of course, that there were no entry wounds to President Kennedy's left temple area.

In any event, perhaps an ambiguous wound location indication, but not a wrong wound location indication.

EDIT: This posted Reply is strictly in response to the RayMitcham posted Reply, as quoted, in reference to the head wound location indication by BillNewman, as seen in the video of the witness interview conducted at the WFAA-TV station by JaYWatson. It is not meant to represent my thoughts and/or conclusions about how the fatal wounding of JFKSr and critical wounding of JBCJr occurred, as well as from where the shots originated.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 10:21:08 PM by Larry Trotter »

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4767 on: August 02, 2019, 09:36:48 PM »

Online Bill Chapman

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4768 on: August 03, 2019, 01:38:20 AM »
Oswald should have had his usual Dr. Pepper, since as it turns out, things didn't really 'go better with Coke' for him, now did they  :D

Offline Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4769 on: August 03, 2019, 07:46:09 PM »

Here Fritz furthers what he was trying to say when he refused to go along with Ball's coaxing and refused to say Oswald went up to get the Coke...Here Fritz says in plain language that he was fairly certain Oswald told him he was in the 2nd floor lunch room where Carolyn Arnold had seen him...Ball doesn't ask Fritz to clarify this...Instead Ball goes right to damage control and tries to get Fritz back on track with the official story by referring him to Commission Evidence 136B...An interrogator who was honestly seeking the truth would have asked Fritz if Oswald told him he was in the 2nd floor lunch room eating lunch during the shots? Instead of honestly sorting this out FBI and the Commission altered Carolyn Arnold's statement and Bart Kamp is right there perfectly in agreement with FBI and their deception...Kamp is right there with Ball trying to quickly cover-up Fritz's truth-telling bugaboo...In the enclosed Hosty notes Hosty also veers in to the truthful by saying Oswald told them he was in the lunch room at the time of the shots...Notice Hosty doesn't say which floor...

The reason the 2nd floor lunch room encounter appeared the day after Oswald was killed was because Oswald was dead and the plotters could accuse him of running down from the 6th floor without any resistance from him...They were no longer under the threat of Oswald telling them he was in the 2nd floor snack bar lunch room like he had obviously told Captain Fritz...As usual, Kamp looks through the telescope backwards and says the omission of the 2nd floor encounter was proof it didn't exist...No...Just the opposite...As the testimony I highlighted in my last few site entries shows, Oswald's being in the 2nd floor lunch room was dangerous because it was where he was during the shots, so they were covering it up...They decided to bring it out after Oswald was dead because 1) He couldn't add the fact he was in the lunch room during the shots...2) There were too many witnesses to his being there like Baker & Truly, as well as Stanton, Reid, and Arnold...

Mr. Ball. with reference to where he as at the time the President was shot, did he tell you what floor of the building he was on?
Mr. Fritz. I feel sure that he told me he was on the second floor.
Mr. Ball. Look at 136B.
Mr. Fritz. All right, sir.
Mr. Ball. The second paragraph down, 136B. yes, Sir.
Fritz. Yes, sir; second floor sir. He said he usually worked on the first floor. I asked him what part of the building at the time the president was shot. He said he was having lunch at about this time on the first floor.”

Hosty:

Oswald told Captain Fritz that he went to lunch at approximately noon on the 22nd of November, ate his lunch in the lunchroom, and had gone and gotten a Coca Cola from the Coca Cola machine to have with his lunch. He claimed that he was in the lunchroom at the time President Kennedy passed the building.   

Notice Hosty doesn't refer to which floor the lunch room was on...

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4769 on: August 03, 2019, 07:46:09 PM »

 

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