Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members and 7 Guests are viewing this topic.

Author Topic: Prayer Woman  (Read 264241 times)

Online Brian Doyle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2878
Prayer Woman
« Reply #4420 on: May 19, 2019, 10:04:40 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
That's not what I was getting at, in pointing this out to Andrej.
If you start off with the wrong aspect ratio and incorrect leveling to the horizon, the rest of the work in the form of a graphic may not(this doesn't mean the end result is inaccurate) be accurate.


You're not answering the point...

Stancak has misrepresented the height lines in his latest graphic according to what I pointed-out in my other posts...

6 foot 1/2 inch minus 8.5 inches puts the 5 foot 4 mark at the chin and not the mouth where Stancak incorrectly placed it with no one pointing it out...

JFK Assassination Forum

Prayer Woman
« Reply #4420 on: May 19, 2019, 10:04:40 PM »

Online Thomas Graves

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2109
Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4421 on: May 19, 2019, 10:06:54 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

He didn't say that...When he said that all I asked is if he remembered where Stanton was standing...After I explained to him Lovelady's location of Sarah against the west wall when the limo passed as well as his own location of Stanton as Prayer Man when Calvery got to the steps he agreed that she could have moved over there...

I also explained to him that Stanton was probably over to his left when she first came out to watch the motorcade and may even have been there the majority of the time before she moved to the Prayer Man spot...Frazier agreed...I told him I would like to be able to show it to him in person on a monitor screen so he understands it...

He suggested that Stanton may have moved to the Prayer Person position immediately after the shots rang out (i.e., during the few seconds that some people on the steps were changing their positions). He doesn't seem to suggest that she might have been in that position before the shots rang out.

Here, Brian, read again what you wrote above:

[Frazier said,] "People should understand people were moving around on the steps because of the chaos caused by the shooting so it is very possible Sarah moved from my left to my right"

-- MWT  :)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 10:38:49 PM by Thomas Graves »

Online Brian Doyle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2878
Prayer Woman
« Reply #4422 on: May 19, 2019, 10:50:50 PM »

Stop playing games Thomas...He doesn't know the evidence...

We know he thinks Stanton was to his left but before I spoke to him we have an example of him going to his flowing memory and placing Stanton in the Prayer Man spot in relation to Calvery...

 

JFK Assassination Forum

Prayer Woman
« Reply #4422 on: May 19, 2019, 10:50:50 PM »

Online Thomas Graves

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2109
Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4423 on: May 19, 2019, 11:12:52 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Frazier doesn't know the evidence.

We know he thinks Stanton was to his left but before I spoke to him we have an example of him going to his flowing memory and placing Stanton in the Prayer Man spot in relation to Calvery...

Do you want Frazier to see the "edvidence" as you interpret it for him, hoping that he'll change his memories and recollections of the event?

Question: Do you believe Altgens-6 captured the immediate aftermath of the first shot?

If so, do you believe Altgens-6 can be correlated with a certain frame or frames of the Weigman film?

If so, in Weigman was Prayer Person already standing in his or her position when Altgens-6 was taken?

If so, then doesn't that suggest that Prayer Person was already standing in his or her classic Sean Murphy/ Brian Doyle position before the shots started ringing out, and therefore, by definition, couldn't have moved to that Weigman and Darnell-recorded position "during the chaos after the shooting".

D'oh

-- MWT  :)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 11:18:11 PM by Thomas Graves »

Online Brian Doyle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2878
Prayer Woman
« Reply #4424 on: May 19, 2019, 11:35:37 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Do you want Frazier to see the "edvidence" as you interpret it for him, hoping that he'll change his memories and recollections of the event?

Question: Do you believe Altgens-6 captured the immediate aftermath of the first shot?

If so, do you believe Altgens-6 can be correlated with a certain frame or frames of the Weigman film?

If so, in Weigman was Prayer Person already standing in his or her position when Altgens-6 was taken?

If so, then doesn't that suggest that Prayer Person was already standing in his or her classic Sean Murphy/ Brian Doyle position before the shots started ringing out, and therefore, by definition, couldn't have moved to that Weigman and Darnell-recorded position "during the chaos after the shooting".



You're forgetting that we've already proven Prayer Man is Stanton...I have already told you Frazier is the one who placed Stanton in the Prayer Man position when he described where Sarah was in relation to Calvery arriving at the steps...All I am doing is trying to help Frazier connect his own correct memory to the film evidence he hasn't seen or had explained to him visually...So since Darnell shows what Frazier described in his 6th Floor Museum interview I wouldn't be changing anything...

I read somewhere that Altgens is roughly equal to Wiegman in Z frame timing...Something close to Z-Frame 257...

We know Sarah is Prayer Man in Wiegman because Davidson brought out a female face on Prayer Man in Wiegman...

It can be said that a person who tries to make too much out of a minor issue is showing the overall weakness of their position...


JFK Assassination Forum

Prayer Woman
« Reply #4424 on: May 19, 2019, 11:35:37 PM »

Offline Barry Pollard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4425 on: May 20, 2019, 01:34:35 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The problem for you with that "take" is that Prayer Person is visible in situ in Weigman, and Weigman started filming the steps just before the first shot rang out.

-- MWT  :)

Minor correction Tommy.
Wiegman reacted sometime after the first shot, close to but also after Altgens' own first reaction(which is what I believe it is, I mean, Ike taking a picture of the motorcade without Kennedy fully visible would be worthless).  Wiegman is seen on Houston expecting something to happen and ready to react to it(Skaggs) and did not have the limo or QM in his sights yet those few seconds later, so his reaction was more likely IMHO based on what he heard, a loud crack perhaps.
The filming of the entrance, pure coincidence as he got ready to jump out, again IMO.

Folks moving around the steps inbetween shots, in reaction to them?  Not impossible of course but the only evidence of that is from Lovelady and who really knows why he moved exactly?  He was even moving around before it all really began.
So BWF not only heard recognisable gunfire but he notices others next to him react to it and then he gets confirmation some twenty seconds later that JFK was actually hit he's genuinly stumped?  Just how big is this hole he's digging for himself going to get?

First question to him about shoes should be regarding whether he knew how to tie them.  It's not looking too good.

Offline Barry Pollard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4426 on: May 20, 2019, 01:53:33 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Do you want Frazier to see the "edvidence" as you interpret it for him, hoping that he'll change his memories and recollections of the event?

Question: Do you believe Altgens-6 captured the immediate aftermath of the first shot?

If so, do you believe Altgens-6 can be correlated with a certain frame or frames of the Weigman film?

If so, in Weigman was Prayer Person already standing in his or her position when Altgens-6 was taken?

If so, then doesn't that suggest that Prayer Person was already standing in his or her classic Sean Murphy/ Brian Doyle position before the shots started ringing out, and therefore, by definition, couldn't have moved to that Weigman and Darnell-recorded position "during the chaos after the shooting".

D'oh

-- MWT  :)

There is a faint hint of something behind Lovelady in the Hugher film.  Something or someone, a brief, very small something(gif reposted by Alan Ford in this thread).
No evidence at all of any member of the public reacting to the first shot in a meaningful way other than those there on official business, either recording or protecting the President and them we can count on one hand, same goes for the second round.  Show me one bystander who reacted before the last shot, anyone?  Look at the Wiegman frames in our gallery, it's a fantasy and all in these eyewitness' head, nothing in the evidence.  And they call us the kooks/nuts.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4426 on: May 20, 2019, 01:53:33 AM »

Offline Barry Pollard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4427 on: May 20, 2019, 02:08:49 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
...
I told Buell that in The Perfect World of Brian I needed to sit down with him with the Couch/Darnell clip on a screen with a pointer and show him what I am talking about...

FTFY.

Play him your interview of the Stanton's inlaws and if he still agrees to talk to you after that, marry him.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4427 on: May 20, 2019, 02:08:49 AM »

Online Brian Doyle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2878
Prayer Woman
« Reply #4428 on: May 20, 2019, 02:57:39 PM »
Stancak is being given free reign to post non-truth over on the Censorship Forum...If we measure Frazier's head it will measure out near to 8 to 8.5 inches...Stancak is a trickster who is trying to shave data to force Oswald to fit Prayer Man no matter what is shown...In his latest offering he is not backing down from his incorrect assertion that Prayer Man's head comes up to the 5 foot 2 mark on Frazier's chin...

Stancak achieves this by falsely making Frazier 6 foot tall instead of the 6 foot 1/2 inch that he really was...This is all part of how Stancak cheats in order to shave data to make Prayer Man Oswald...People are not stupid and the only reason Stancak is violating his own body proportion science and incorrectly placing the 5 foot 2 mark at Frazier's chin is because he's desperately trying to make Prayer's Man's height equal Oswald having a foot on the step...That way when Oswald steeped to the platform he would equal his 5 foot 9 height...Stancak is obviously reverse engineering the evidence to fit Oswald instead of objectively evaluating what is there like valid analysis requires...It's quite juvenile and he is being allowed to get away with murder...

When Frazier's correct 6 foot 1/2 inch height is inputted and a correct 8.5 inch head height is calculated the 5 foot 4 mark correctly crosses Frazier's chin where Stancak's body proportion science requires it...It is also possible Prayer Man's head comes 1/2 inch above Frazier's chin so this even further reinforces the impossibility of the 5 foot 2 line crossing Frazier's chin like Stancak erroneously has it...

Because this fraudulent claim backs the Prayer Man theory the members of the Censorship Forum allow Stancak to get away with it and the moderator there bans anyone who shows otherwise...

I proved Prayer Man does not have a foot on the step because close analysis of Stancak's graphic shows the bent left leg required for that foot on the step forces that left leg in to sunlight that can be seen in Stancak's graphic...Look at Stancak's graphic and you can see the bent left leg is lit by sunlight...However when we go to the reality of the Darnell frame we can see Sarah Stanton's wide hips and dress with two straight unbent legs...Sarah's left leg is not lit by sun and is standing straight...This is proof beyond a doubt that Prayer Man is not Oswald because it proves Prayer Man has both feet on the landing and is therefore too short to be Oswald according to Stancak's own words...However even though I have posted this conclusive evidence many times it gets ignored each and every time I post it and no one confronts Stancak on it on the Censorship Forum...Stancak is pretending he doesn't see this or doesn't have to answer it...The reality is Stancak has refuted himself by means of the precision of his graphic...This is conclusive proof and the community condemns itself and its credibility by ignoring it every time and banning its source...Stancak recently tried to get away with drawing an outline over the radiator to show that bent leg in one of the best examples of goofy pseudo-analysis I've ever seen...None of the cognoscenti on the Censorship Forum even noticed...Persons I am deemed unfit to post amongst while Stancak's juvenile rubbish goes unchallenged...

Stancak will not do any cartoon graphic for Wiegman because he is aware it will instantly show Prayer Man having a foot on the step to be impossible...And none of the Censorship Forum will ask him because they are more interested in believing false evidence...Only fools would not realize that Stancak already did a graphic for Wiegman and realized what I am saying...That any true depiction of Wiegman shows it is impossible for Prayer Man to have a foot on the step...Stancak realized he refuted himself so he buried his Wiegman graphic and hoped people wouldn't notice...So, in other words, Stancak knows the information he is promoting with the aid of brute censorship is false but is posting it anyway hoping to fool both himself and others...

Watch them ignore the sunlight on Prayer Man's bent left leg and then ask yourself how credible they are and how credible their being allowed to not answer by bully banning is...


 
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 03:15:36 PM by Brian Doyle »

Online Brian Doyle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2878
Prayer Woman
« Reply #4429 on: May 20, 2019, 03:58:10 PM »
Stancak wrote:


Quote
I am more than happy to call Mr. Frazier if I am given the number. However, I have some reservations about doing it because I believe that the questions should be asked by a person who does not have that strong opinion about who Prayer Man was. What can happen is that the interviewer can manipulate the witness to say what s/he wants. For instance, if the interviewer asks Mr. Frazier what colour was Mrs. Stanton's hair and he answers that it was blond, a bad interviewer would then spend minutes to persuade Mr. Frazier that the lady could also have coloured her hair, and Mr. Frazier somehow says she could. Similarly, if Mr. Frazier says right away that Mrs. Stanton stood to his left, a bad interviewer who only pursuits his goals would spend minutes to confuse the witness with his gibberish after which  Mr. Frazier says something that people changed their locations after the shooting and this will be taken as Mr. Frazier's view that Mrs. Stanton changed her location after the shooting to became Prayer Man (only  that Prayer Man was at his spot already in Wiegman). Instead of just asking a non-leading question and watching Mr. Frazier's reactions (therefore a phone call is not the best form for such interview), a bad interviewer constantly rambles on about his own theories whatever the witness says.

Mr. Frazier needs to be interviewed with visual evidence at hand, the session should be recorded and questions should be non-leading. There should be two-three researchers around whom Mr. Frazier trusts. This is what I hope will happen one day, and my non-recorded phone call can only disturb things.

In all fairness, Mr. Frazier cannot say who Prayer Man was. He just cannot. If he could, he would say. If Prayer Man was not Oswald, it was possible to say who he was with impunity. However, this did not happen over the years. Mr. Frazier may also not remember the scene. Not only because it is 55 years back, but also because he went through a very difficult time, fearing for his family for things over which he did not have any control. So, if you would press on him by insisting on the answer who Prayer Man was, he would raise voice and become emotional.

I have only respect for Mr. Frazier. He is a good man and a good American. I would like to talk to him when I know the interview would be both useful and not hurting as it may become if all details about Prayer Man acquired over the years are communicated to him.


Stancak is being non-truthful...In my phone call with Frazier I mentioned that Sarah had whitish light colored hair but that it was seen in a black and white photo and could have been blonde...Frazier volunteered that it was blonde...Now without my saying a word Frazier then continued that there were a lot of lady secretaries at the Depository who colored their hair for professional reasons and that hair color was not necessarily a guarantee...Frazier said that with zero prompting from myself yet Stancak is now saying a "bad researcher" (obviously myself) coached Frazier in to saying it...That is just straight truthfully inaccurate and is going unchallenged because of censorship...It's a perfect example of how Stancak's mind works and how he is guilty of what he accuses me of...

What Stancak is calling "gibberish" is my quoting to Frazier his own words in his 2013 6th Floor Museum interview where he cited Stanton's location according to Calvery's arrival at the steps...After a lengthy explanation of his own words and their context Frazier agreed that Stanton could have been to his left when she first came out to the steps but then shifted over to the Prayer Man spot by the time of Darnell...I described Lovelady's 1964 FBI statement to Frazier where Lovelady placed Sarah over against the west wall of the entranceway when the limousine passed before the shots...This is what caused Frazier to agree Stanton may have been Prayer Man...Stancak is trying his best to misrepresent context because this shows Sarah moved before the shots, so it is Stancak who ignores evidence and tries to convince the reader of his bias by ignoring Lovelady's locating of Stanton...He is afraid of detailing what I did with Frazier because he knows it makes sense so he name-calls it "gibberish"...Indeed Stancak is afraid to call Frazier all together because he is aware Frazier will tell him Oswald wasn't out there like he told me and he doesn't want to hear it...

What Stancak fails to honestly cover here is the fact we have visual film evidence that needs to be shown to Frazier...The Altgens photo needs to be shown to Frazier to show him Sarah is not to his left at Z frame 257...Stancak is not being totally truthful when omits that what he is calling "gibberish" is actually highly credible film evidence that shows Frazier doing exactly what he described in this interview...It is my opinion that the "bad researcher" is the one who ignores this and fails to accurately voice it...What Stancak is really saying here is he only seeks to interview Frazier when the dirty playing field he currently enjoys is set up for him...And only if the information he doesn't want to hear is excluded by rule like it currently is...

Stancak is telling a non-truth there...When he isn't being forced to remember and his mind flows like in his 2013 6th Floor Museum interview, Frazier very clearly recalls Sarah being to his right when he asked her what Calvery had said...In that interview Frazier's body language shifts to his right as does his hand gesture when talking about Sarah...Frazier describes "staring at Sarah for the longest time in shock after hearing Calvery say the president has been shot"...One look at Darnell shows Frazier staring at Prayer Man for the entire length of the clip at a time where Calvery has finished her shouting...

If you want to understand the false nature of Stancak just ask him on the Education Forum to post a computer graphic for Wiegman...Trust me Stancak already created a graphic for Wiegman but when he did he realized it proved Prayer Man can't have a foot on the step...If he did his left side would be drawn in to sun...Stancak created a Wiegman graphic and saw this and realized Prayer Man had no foot on the step and was therefore too short to be Oswald...That's why he buried it and hoped people wouldn't notice...He's a non-truthful person in other words...

Just ask him to post a graphic of Wiegman and watch the excuse you get...

« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 04:28:39 PM by Brian Doyle »

JFK Assassination Forum

Prayer Woman
« Reply #4429 on: May 20, 2019, 03:58:10 PM »

 

Mobile View