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Author Topic: Prayer Woman  (Read 302463 times)

Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4390 on: May 17, 2019, 08:38:07 AM »

What you are saying isn't accurate...The frame with the woman's face is the best frame because you can see everything else in the image also becomes clearer and sharper...The reason for that is because the camera technology of the day would take a clear frame when the camera was steady...The frame Davidson used for his enhancement was such a clear, sharp frame and because of that Sarah's face emerged in it...Both you and Davidson have failed to answer this...And Davidson has an annoying habit of disappearing when you ask him to respond to these kind of facts that serve to make progress on the subject...

I think the elongated forehead is actually the forehead of somebody who shifted behind Sarah in Wiegman...It could possibly be Shelley's forehead as he tracks in order to progress down the stairs...

Barry, since you are showing a lack of credible response to the facts I am not going to answer further such replies...You have to explain on a technical basis what the clear face of a woman in the above frame is and you just can't say "freak accident"...It doesn't work that way at the technical level we are dealing at and you can't just say "freak accident" without explaining what exactly caused the obvious clear image of a woman's face to be on Prayer Man in that frame exactly where a woman's face should be...Any photo analysis expert who looked at the image would tell you it was a real face that was part of the original Wiegman celluloid...That face is Sarah's Stanton's and the forehead of Shelley behind it can't be used as an excuse to dismiss it...

So far Davidson has not returned to answer for this...

I'm telling you, I played with the freak frame and I believe it's a distortion, certainly not representative of the real person's face we are focusing on.  And no, no expert worth their salt would put there money on it being real because of the things I've mentioned before, the quality of the frame, the enlongated forehead and the heads position relative to it's neck/shoulders(it's completely sunk into the collar bone), also the Munster head has cropped off the hair in the middle of the freak's scalp, so this person you think has moved behind her is actually interfeering with something in the front top part of the freak infront of them, these are some big freakin' clues there.  And through my experience with this case alone, I know, you can get "an expert" to say pretty much anything these days, so start saving your cash.
Longer than Herman Munster's own forehead, that alone reserves me the right to use the term Freak.

Online Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #4391 on: May 17, 2019, 02:15:26 PM »
I'm telling you, I played with the freak frame and I believe it's a distortion, certainly not representative of the real person's face we are focusing on.  And no, no expert worth their salt would put there money on it being real because of the things I've mentioned before, the quality of the frame, the enlongated forehead and the heads position relative to it's neck/shoulders(it's completely sunk into the collar bone), also the Munster head has cropped off the hair in the middle of the freak's scalp, so this person you think has moved behind her is actually interfeering with something in the front top part of the freak infront of them, these are some big freakin' clues there.  And through my experience with this case alone, I know, you can get "an expert" to say pretty much anything these days, so start saving your cash.
Longer than Herman Munster's own forehead, that alone reserves me the right to use the term Freak.


That's ridiculous...A photo analysis expert would tell you it is a real image that was part of the Wiegman original and was a real woman's face (Sarah Stanton's)...

I already showed that the elongated forehead was seen to Prayer Man's east in a previous frame and was probably Shelley's forehead as he shifted behind Sarah...

Nice try but no Barry...It has to be real because it is where a face is on Prayer Man's body and can't be anything else..."Distortion"?...Pfft - for goodness' sake!...It is real because Frazier and Lovelady said Sarah was over in that spot so a female face only confirms it...And you violate photo science by suggesting a distortion occurs in the sharpest, clearest frame that is less likely to contain such a thing due to its clarity...That doesn't make sense and avoids what I am showing here...And there is nothing wrong with the head's position...It is Sarah looking down in to her purse and is exactly where it should be and isn't "sunken"...That's a bogus observation...

Please don't respond to my posts Mr Pollard...I don't feel you are offering serious responses...

« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 02:32:47 PM by Brian Doyle »

Online Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #4392 on: May 17, 2019, 02:54:35 PM »

A point of order is necessary here...

Stancak has once again badly cheated and gotten away with it...In his latest offering on the other forum Stancak has offered bad pseudo-science that falsely renders the heights of Prayer Man and Frazier in order to force them to match Oswald...

Stancak has drawn erroneous height lines that try to show Prayer Man came up to the 5 foot 2 mark on Frazier's chin...Stancak has distorted the true science he himself helped establish in order to do that...It was Stancak himself who helped establish that a human head is about 8 inches from top to chin...If Frazier was 6 foot 1/2 inches in height then the 5 foot 4 mark would land on his chin according to Stancak's own science...But if we go to Stancak's latest offering on that other forum Stancak has cheated and placed the 5 foot 2 mark on Frazier's chin and the 5 foot 4 mark on Frazier's lips...This can't be because Stancak's own science requires the 8 inch head length to land the 5 foot 4 mark on Frazier's chin according to his own science...

A point of order is necessary here...3 years ago I was booted off that other site without explanation after I started pointing out similar errors in Stancak's pseudo-science...That site's moderator obviously favors Stancak and doesn't hold him accountable to such gross errors...It is my opinion that that other site's moderator doesn't possess the skill to detect those fatal flaws in Stancak's work and has a bias towards preserving the already-debunked Prayer Man theory...So the research community is now actively participating in a deliberate violation of its own professed objective, academic research standards in order to preserve egotistical dominance over the Prayer Man theory even though enough information has been shown that credible researchers would have known by now that it was disproven...In short, the community now prefers bad claims over good and bans anyone who shows otherwise...

My observations here that are correct went totally ignored on this site and went unanswered...So in effect we have a case where the correct and provable evidence is deliberately, totally ignored and Stancak's false entries go unchallenged on the other board...So it can be correctly said that the other board protects bad claims and false analyses and actively ignores correct evidence by means of wrongful banning and censorship...The main offenders go right to this wrongful, anti-intellectual protection and only post in the other site's safe harbor where their false claims are protected and good evidence is deliberately ignored...


Online Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #4393 on: May 18, 2019, 03:12:39 PM »
Stancak is at it again and ignoring reality in a delusionary way...

He seems to fail to grasp that the Darnell image he is using is about 35 seconds after the Wiegman image that clearly shows the face of a woman on Prayer Man...We have proven that face is that of Sarah Stanton...

There's a serious lack of recognition of reality in Stancak's post that he needs to be informed of...Apparently the membership of the other site is not going to inform him of this necessary reality because it is going to keep the Oswald as Prayer Man possibility open no matter how much obviously rotten research is needed to do so...

Stancak seems to be deliberately self-deluding himself that Davidson didn't prove that there was a female face on Prayer Man...The Davidson enhancement is real and any competent photo analysis expert will tell you the female face Davidson brought out in it is a legitimate part of the Wiegman original celluloid...That means the woman's face can't be denied like some are trying to do and that it must be recognized at a scientific evidence level...What Stancak is getting away with is ignoring the plain basic reality that Prayer Man is in the same spot in both Wiegman and Darnell and if Prayer Man has a woman's face in Wiegman then he has a woman's face in Darnell too...Stancak and the other forum's membership are collectively ignoring this and trying to get away with still pushing bogus evidence that Prayer Man is Oswald...This is being perpetrated through the banning of anyone who opposes that censorship-protected Prayer Man majority...The other forum is allowing Stancak to ignore good evidence and freely post bad claims unopposed...If Prayer Man is a woman in Wiegman then he is a woman in Darnell and Stancak is entertaining an unhealthy reality by trying to ignore that...

It is an unhealthy non reality for Stancak to say Shelley is on the steps in front of the door in Darnell when we can see him going up the extension with Lovelady in the same image...This is rotten research that is being forced with false banning...

Sandy Larsen is also guilty of perpetrating an unhealthy non-reality with the assistance of fraudulent censorship...If I were allowed to challenge him fairly I would point out that he knows about 3 years ago he posted forensic proof on the other forum that the plaid bars in Lovelady's shirt perfectly matched those on the shirt of the man going up the Elm St extension and that this was proof that the man was Lovelady...Larsen backed off that proof when he realized it disproved Prayer Man being Oswald and the others then developed amnesia over it...So Larsen is now posting things that he knows are not true and were disproven by himself...It is the kind of proof that you can't take back and the others are letting him get away with it...

It's all very simple...If Calvery is at the steps - something Larsen also proved, then the two men have to be Lovelady & Shelley according to the timing...It is amazing seeing grown adults ignore evidence in public in order to serve their pet theories over good research...All with the aid of incompetent, corrupted oversight...We know Lovelady & Shelley went up the extension exactly at that time from testimony...So the community now acts in a way that being the only two people it can be, Lovelady & Shelley are now excluded and posed as the two persons it can't possibly be - even though that makes no analysis sense...

Larsen is ignoring that the man on the steps in front of Calvery is Molina...The others are helping him...

The members at the other site are not answering Stancak...They know his offering is garbage...But that doesn't stop them from not admitting our good proof or removing the one person who proved this issue from their venues...
« Last Edit: May 18, 2019, 03:24:50 PM by Brian Doyle »

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4394 on: May 18, 2019, 05:15:07 PM »
Stancak is at it again and ignoring reality in a delusionary way...

He seems to fail to grasp that the Darnell image he is using is about 35 seconds after the Wiegman image that clearly shows the face of a woman on Prayer Man...We have proven that face is that of Sarah Stanton...

There's a serious lack of recognition of reality in Stancak's post that he needs to be informed of...Apparently the membership of the other site is not going to inform him of this necessary reality because it is going to keep the Oswald as Prayer Man possibility open no matter how much obviously rotten research is needed to do so...

Stancak seems to be deliberately self-deluding himself that Davidson didn't prove that there was a female face on Prayer Man...The Davidson enhancement is real and any competent photo analysis expert will tell you the female face Davidson brought out in it is a legitimate part of the Wiegman original celluloid...That means the woman's face can't be denied like some are trying to do and that it must be recognized at a scientific evidence level...What Stancak is getting away with is ignoring the plain basic reality that Prayer Man is in the same spot in both Wiegman and Darnell and if Prayer Man has a woman's face in Wiegman then he has a woman's face in Darnell too...Stancak and the other forum's membership are collectively ignoring this and trying to get away with still pushing bogus evidence that Prayer Man is Oswald...This is being perpetrated through the banning of anyone who opposes that censorship-protected Prayer Man majority...The other forum is allowing Stancak to ignore good evidence and freely post bad claims unopposed...If Prayer Man is a woman in Wiegman then he is a woman in Darnell and Stancak is entertaining an unhealthy reality by trying to ignore that...

It is an unhealthy non reality for Stancak to say Shelley is on the steps in front of the door in Darnell when we can see him going up the extension with Lovelady in the same image...This is rotten research that is being forced with false banning...

Sandy Larsen is also guilty of perpetrating an unhealthy non-reality with the assistance of fraudulent censorship...If I were allowed to challenge him fairly I would point out that he knows about 3 years ago he posted forensic proof on the other forum that the plaid bars in Lovelady's shirt perfectly matched those on the shirt of the man going up the Elm St extension and that this was proof that the man was Lovelady...Larsen backed off that proof when he realized it disproved Prayer Man being Oswald and the others then developed amnesia over it...So Larsen is now posting things that he knows are not true and were disproven by himself...It is the kind of proof that you can't take back and the others are letting him get away with it...

It's all very simple...If Calvery is at the steps - something Larsen also proved, then the two men have to be Lovelady & Shelley according to the timing...It is amazing seeing grown adults ignore evidence in public in order to serve their pet theories over good research...All with the aid of incompetent, corrupted oversight...We know Lovelady & Shelley went up the extension exactly at that time from testimony...So the community now acts in a way that being the only two people it can be, Lovelady & Shelley are now excluded and posed as the two persons it can't possibly be - even though that makes no analysis sense...

Larsen is ignoring that the man on the steps in front of Calvery is Molina...The others are helping him...

The members at the other site are not answering Stancak...They know his offering is garbage...But that doesn't stop them from not admitting our good proof or removing the one person who proved this issue from their venues...

Brian,

Nobody cares.

Knock yourself out.

(You sound like a broken record ...)

-- MWT   ;)
« Last Edit: May 18, 2019, 05:17:40 PM by Thomas Graves »

Online Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #4395 on: May 18, 2019, 09:22:23 PM »

Typical of the JFK research community, Davidson has gone to the other forum and posted my argument but done it in an overly-polite, overly-technical way that doesn't effectively get the point across...

Davidson has failed to point out to Stancak that his latest offering is garbage and violates several of Stancak's own rules of evidence...Unless Davidson makes that point directly Stancak will avoid honestly answering it...

What Davidson hasn't made directly clear enough to Stancak is that the top of Prayer Man's head comes up to Frazier's chin...Since Stancak himself helped discover that a human head is 8 to 9 inches high on average, therefore the 6 foot 1/2 inch Frazier would have the 5 foot 4 mark at his chin according to Stancak's own science...However if we go to Stancak's latest graphic he has the 5 foot 2 mark at Frazier's chin...Stancak is doing this because he knows the true science backs me and shows Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton's 5 foot 4 height, as is seen by Prayer Man coming up to Frazier's chin...Stancak is perpetrating a deliberate non-truth by making this false claim because he is desperate to bend the evidence towards Prayer Man being Oswald...Only this time he got caught...

Davidson isn't being clear enough and should explain this more directly to Stancak and demand an answer for it...

We are finally getting somewhere with these correctly portrayed height planes in Stancak's latest graphics...Only the membership on the other forum is not asking the right questions and forcing Stancak to obey the correct science...
« Last Edit: May 18, 2019, 09:34:28 PM by Brian Doyle »

Online Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #4396 on: May 18, 2019, 11:36:01 PM »

I just had a 20 minute phone call with Buell Frazier...

He first assured me Sarah was to his left in the portal...

I then explained to him that yes indeed Stanton was over to his left when she first came out but his locating of Sarah in his various interviews had her in the Prayer Man spot during the assassination...Buell was patient and listened to my lengthy explanations of how he himself confirmed this by saying he was staring at Sarah when Calvery ran up shouting the president has been shot... It took me over 5 minutes but I finally got him to understand what I was saying and he agreed people moved around in the portal during the shooting and that Sarah could have been over there in the Prayer Man spot in Darnell...

It was clear to me that this was the first time it had ever been explained to him the way it needed to be so he was not exactly strong on the subject...Though Buell did agree that Prayer Man could be Sarah...What needs to be done now is Buell needs to be shown the Couch/Darnell clip and have him understand it visually...He said he wasn't necessarily directly familiar with the person being called "Prayer Man" and that they were blurry images...

Buell said to me that Oswald was not on the front steps landing during the shots and he agreed with me that it was common sense that Oswald was not standing in front of Frazier and the other employees without anyone saying anything...I told him people are saying you were coerced and intimidated by men in black in to shutting up and some said you were lying...He told me to tell those people that he agrees with me that Oswald wasn't out there and if he was he would have said something...He added some people are nuts who will believe what they want to believe no matter what...He agreed the strongest in a firm voice when he told me this...
« Last Edit: May 18, 2019, 11:43:42 PM by Brian Doyle »

Offline Alan Hardaker

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4397 on: May 19, 2019, 01:39:59 AM »
Ah, but there's a difference, Mr Brown!

That the official published interrogation reports would say nothing about Mr Oswald's claim to have gone outside to watch the Presidential parade makes perfect sense to me. I don't run away from it. Mr Oswald's claim was suppressed because it was too dangerous for the Oswald-Acted-Alone investigation.

You, on the other hand. Well... Let's see. You are shown this in the unofficial handwritten interrogation notes of Agent Hosty:



"Then went outside to watch P. parade."

This is clearly something that you cannot explain (unless you wish to press the absurd case that an FBI agent would misunderstand the claimed whereabouts of the suspect in the assassination of President Kennedy?).

So what do you do? Simple! You pretend it doesn't exist. Too inconvenient. Best ignored.  :)

But hey, Mr Brown, that's okay. We understand where you're coming from: the very same Warren Gullibility comfort zone where your fellow propagandists like Mr von Pein and Prof McAdams reside. If ignoring uncongenial evidence keeps you happy, then we're happy for you!  Thumb1:

The only comment I will make and it may not be in context but the claim that Oswald "went outside to watch the parade"...statement reads..."went to 2nd floor to get a coca cola to eat with his lunch, then returned to the first floor to eat lunch, then went outside to watch the parade". Timeline doesn't add up..as Oswald was seen on the 2nd floor by Truely and Baker getting his coca cola...but by then the parade and indeed murder had already happened.....so obviously the statement doesn't make any sense time wise...for Oswald statement to add up time wise it should read..."Went to 2nd floor to get a coca cola to eat with his lunch, and returned to first floor to eat his lunch, then went outside to watch parade, then went back up to the 2nd floor"...where he was confronted by Truely and Baker...

well I mean in truth he was on the 2nd floor because he had just hot footed it down from the 6th floor...

Offline Chris Davidson

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4398 on: May 19, 2019, 02:05:16 AM »
I just had a 20 minute phone call with Buell Frazier...

He first assured me Sarah was to his left in the portal...

I then explained to him that yes indeed Stanton was over to his left when she first came out but his locating of Sarah in his various interviews had her in the Prayer Man spot during the assassination...Buell was patient and listened to my lengthy explanations of how he himself confirmed this by saying he was staring at Sarah when Calvery ran up shouting the president has been shot... It took me over 5 minutes but I finally got him to understand what I was saying and he agreed people moved around in the portal during the shooting and that Sarah could have been over there in the Prayer Man spot in Darnell...

It was clear to me that this was the first time it had ever been explained to him the way it needed to be so he was not exactly strong on the subject...Though Buell did agree that Prayer Man could be Sarah...What needs to be done now is Buell needs to be shown the Couch/Darnell clip and have him understand it visually...He said he wasn't necessarily directly familiar with the person being called "Prayer Man" and that they were blurry images...

Buell said to me that Oswald was not on the front steps landing during the shots and he agreed with me that it was common sense that Oswald was not standing in front of Frazier and the other employees without anyone saying anything...I told him people are saying you were coerced and intimidated by men in black in to shutting up and some said you were lying...He told me to tell those people that he agrees with me that Oswald wasn't out there and if he was he would have said something...He added some people are nuts who will believe what they want to believe no matter what...He agreed the strongest in a firm voice when he told me this...
Why don't you ask him to measure his head height minus the hair, that way one more variable can be eliminated.
While you're at it, maybe he remembers what shoes he was wearing: ie tennis, work, dress, boots.

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #4399 on: May 19, 2019, 06:42:48 AM »
a couple of questions, and without any intent to malign either Mr. Doyle, or Mr Stancek either, just questions:

If the person who is to the left of BW Frazier (his left shoulder) is not Mr. Shelly, then who is this person? Its a blob like figure also, rather large imo, especially in girth . More apparently than what some are able to see as girth in Prayer blob. This lighter gray colored blob appears closer to 5'4 to 5'6" than does Prayer blob.

Mr Stancek , thinks the light gray blob is Mr Shelly and has suggested  that Sarah Stanton was standing behind and blocked from view. And he has apparently added a possible hairline of Stanton, above a supposed black hairline of Shelly. However, since it appears that Billy Lovelady walking away in a sequence of Darnell film, and there is someone walking WITH him, that person is most probably Mr.Shelly. So imo, the ligt gray blob still adjacent to BWF is NOT Shelly.

Could it be that thie blob which has a rather distinct large girth and is LIGHT GRAY sillouette, is Sarah Stanton?. Is it possible we have been mistaking this blob as Molina, or Williams or Shelley, all along?


« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 06:49:20 AM by Zeon Mason »

 

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