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Author Topic: Prayer Woman  (Read 269423 times)

Offline Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #400 on: June 20, 2018, 08:36:37 PM »
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He didn't mention him obviously.
Why would he be facing the door, if he meant to the left of the entrance? Wake up. Trotter.
We can't be sure he didn't, can we?
He didn't mention seeing LHO, obviously because LHO was not there.

Instead of questioning my alertness, why don't you answer the question Mitcham?
And, where did I indicate anything about BWF "facing the door"?

I am confident, especially since no one else saw LHO there at the time, that surely BWF did not see LHO either.


Edited in the hope that Mitcham can recognize both(2) questions...
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 08:56:51 PM by Larry Trotter »

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #400 on: June 20, 2018, 08:36:37 PM »

Offline Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #401 on: June 20, 2018, 09:25:21 PM »
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After discussions in private with Larry Hancock I gotta say that there is of course the possibility that Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald 2x, even though the glass of water argument is flawed with a water cooler being present in the corridor before going back to the office/lunch room.
Typical of Prayer Man theorists Kamp backs off his claim that Carolyn Arnold was lying because there was no water facility in the lunch room while not backing off his claim...Kamp gives no answer to the fact photos of the 2nd floor lunch room kitchen counter show what might be a water tap fixture at the right end of the counter...

Kamp also contemptuously ignores that Carolyn Arnold was very clear to Earl Golz that she never saw or said she saw Oswald in the foyer...With Kamp, even though the FBI lie is the obvious bogus claim, it is the lunch room witnessing that is still questionable....

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Molina's report by Senkel.

Molina's report is useless because it doesn't show anything that relates to Sarah Stanton's witnessing...All it says is he left the building at about 12:15...Molina's saying he was with Stanton on the landing is useless because there is no exact time reference as to when...

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Or Reid's WC testimony.

Mr. BELIN. All right. Do you know about what time it was that you left the lunchroom, was it 12, 12:15?

Mrs. REID. I think around 12:30 somewhere along in there

Mr. BELIN. Were you the last person in the lunchroom?

Mrs. REID. No; I could not say that because I don't remember that part of it because I was going out of the building by myself, I wasn't even, you know, connected with anyone at all.

Mr. BELIN. Were there any men in the lunchroom when you left there?

Mrs. REID. I can't, I don't, remember that.

Mr. BELIN. All right.

Mrs. REID. I can't remember the time they left.

Of course Kamp doesn't comment on the fact that 12:30 was impossible because Reid would have missed the motorcade if she left at that time...

Further on in Mrs Reid's Warren Commission testimony she describes leaving the 2nd floor lunch room via the door to the offices...Kamp avoids discussing this because he knows it works against his Prayer Man BS...What Kamp is avoiding here is if Mrs Reid left through the vestibule door into the offices that means she did not go out on the the 2nd floor staircase landing where Sarah Stanton saw Oswald...Stanton's witnessing is valuable because if it is accurate it means that we know why Mrs Reid would not have seen Oswald...Kamp is very aware that this works against Murphy so he plays dumb and skips mentioning any of it...Stanton's seeing Oswald by the staircase matches the other witnessing...

Mrs Reid told the Commission that she took the passenger elevator down to the front steps to watch the motorcade after she got her jacket and pocketbook from the offices so we know she left the lunchroom at at least 12:25 because Reid mentioned being outside for a few minutes before the motorcade arrived...So this scenario makes it possible that Stanton sees Oswald on the staircase landing while Reid is in the lunch room...Reid exits via the vestibule door to the offices and misses Oswald who is anywhere from the Domino Room to the 2nd floor staircase landing...Carolyn Arnold leaves late and gets a drink from the 2nd floor lunch room because of her pregnancy and not wanting to be outside standing too long... 

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Carolyn Arnold  may have seen him getting a coke as described by  Sarah Stanton and then seen him later while standing outside. As she is spotted looking around to DalTex in Wiegman and could have easily looked back as well, or pass him while going through the vestibule. But she could have used one to deny the other.

So we can ignore several years of Kamp's crazy BS that Carolyn Arnold was lying...Kamp puts himself and his trolling before a real major witness who insisted to Golz that she never saw Oswald in the foyer...Kamp is now taking over reality and ignoring what a highly credible real witnesses insisted in order to force his claim that Arnold saw Oswald in the foyer simply because he says so...Kamp allows himself to ignore that FBI obviously altered Carolyn Arnold's statement because they were aware that Oswald was in the lunch room...Kamp then backs FBI's lie and their alteration of Mrs Arnold's lunch room witnessing without flinching while ignoring that one of those has to be wrong...But when you are taking over reality and just making things happen because you say so you can back two opposing things at the same time in public without accounting for it...If this stupidity and incompetence causes you any trouble, don't worry...The moderators will bail you out by banning those who point it out...   

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The Stanton story is valuable because she stated to her family that she saw Oswald with a soda and asked him whether he was going to go out for lunch!  Before the motorcade passed by and had his Coke FOR his lunch! Just like Hosty and Bookhout stated.

Kamp is not quoting accurately...At 5:42 of the interview the daughter in law says Sarah asked Oswald if he was going UP to lunch (not "out")...Oswald responded, "No, I'm going back to my room"...This is very important because it describes Oswald saying he was not going to go back upstairs but was going to go back in to the lunch room whose door he was standing on front of...The same lunch room Carolyn Arnold would see Oswald sitting in shortly after...Kamp dishonestly reports this passage because he knows it refutes his Prayer Man BS...

The witnessing of the soda is extremely valuable because it makes credible researchers ask if this was the long-sleeved Oswald with the Coke?...That would then mean the T-shirt Oswald witnessed by Mrs Reid was another Oswald with another Coke...The Coke bottle being a useful intelligence prop to make witnesses think the two Oswald's were one person...Bottles that disappeared from the evidence because of their fingerprints...
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 09:39:54 PM by Brian Doyle »

Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #402 on: June 20, 2018, 09:55:51 PM »
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...are you positive that he was not referring to "off to my left" as being relative to his position while viewing the picture?

In any event, surely had LeeHarveyOswald been among the entrance area/portal occupants as filmed, BuellWesleyFrazier would have seen him!

Watch it, find any reference to a picture and get back to us.
BWF would have seen PM yes, well done.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #402 on: June 20, 2018, 09:55:51 PM »

Offline Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #403 on: June 20, 2018, 10:03:19 PM »
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What seems very  possible to me is that Arnold went of her office into the corridor to the water cooler and coming or going saw Oswald in the open area outside the lunchroom which services the corridors, the back stairway which Oswald might well use , the entrance to the lunchroom and of course to the office area.  That would have been well before before the motorcade arrived.   Later, downstairs she saw him again in the area of the TSBD doorway just as the motorcade arrived...as she told the FBI.  That would be essentially the same statement the Supt of the TSBD made to the newspapers the next morning...before he exited the picture.

This would make Stanton's remarks about seeing Oswald with a soda, taking it down to the break room where he was going to eat - and where he and the TSBD employees normally ate - very consistent - along with the remarks of the black employees who recalled him there but obviously became afraid to say so and his own description of seeing them there while he was eating.

All of this would put Oswald on the first floor and certainly not up on the sixth with his rifle preparing for the arrival of the motorcade.

As Bart notes, there will be objections to that, I can't prove it but there are a number of consistencies that suggest it and which also suggest why Arnold, and Stanton might not have wanted to push the issue as the implications of what they had seen became clear.


Larry Hancock is obviously a Prayer Man bunny in bed with the quack he gave the Lancer award to...Here Hancock conveniently ignores that Carolyn Arnold insisted with emphasis to Earl Golz that she saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room proper where he was sitting at one of the booth tables (the same one near the front that Westbrook described)...Larry is dragging Oswald out to the vestibule passage in order to avoid admitting Carolyn Arnold's witnessing was real and placed Oswald in the lunch room where he was obviously comfortably set up eating lunch...

Hancock then repeats Kamp's dirty trick and ignores the fact the actual witness herself, Carolyn Arnold, again insisted with emphasis to Golz that she never saw Oswald in the foyer on the 1st floor and that FBI had fabricated that...Hancock and Kamp contemptuously ignore Carolyn Arnold's insisting this and endorse FBI's criminal alteration of the evidence...The Education Forum muggers, while accusing me of stealing Zambanini's research, have now assumed my discovery while removing me from any association with it...They have also claimed my interview was a bad example of an interview but I see they have subsequently adopted most of its contents...

Hancock ignores how "Claims 2nd floor Coke when officer came in" doesn't give Oswald enough time to do what his scenario logistically requires...Nor would Oswald not be out of breath if he had...

I think Carolyn Johnston is still alive...Just like with Frazier none of the Prayer Man phonies are going to rush to interview her because they already know what the answer will be...

Nowhere does Hancock mention that placing Oswald in the vestibule reinforces Baker...
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 10:09:25 PM by Brian Doyle »

Offline Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #404 on: June 20, 2018, 10:14:46 PM »
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Watch it, find any reference to a picture and get back to us.
BWF would have seen PM yes, well done.

BuellWesleyFrazier did not see, would not have seen, and could not have seen LeeHarveyOswald on the TSBD Entrance stairs/landing during the filming at or near the time of the DealeyPlaza shooting on 11/22/'63.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #404 on: June 20, 2018, 10:14:46 PM »

Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #405 on: June 20, 2018, 10:20:56 PM »
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BuellWesleyFrazier did not see, would not have seen, and could not have seen LeeHarveyOswald on the TSBD Entrance stairs/landing during the filming at or near the time of the DealeyPlaza shooting on 11/22/'63.

He did see him, he was standing right across the landing from him, are you blind?
How could he not see him? Because he must be up on the sixth?

Offline Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #406 on: June 20, 2018, 11:18:21 PM »
Earl Golz Interviews Carolyn Arnold

In an interview with the journalist Earl Golz in 1978, Carolyn Arnold claimed that ?she saw Oswald in the 2nd?floor lunchroom as she was on her way out of the depository to watch the presidential motorcade ?. She left the building at 12:25pm.? (Earl Golz, ?Was Oswald in Window?,? Dallas Morning News, 26 November 1978, p.13A; available as PDF).

Golz quotes her as saying that Oswald ?was sitting there ? in one of the booth seats on the right?hand side of the room as you go in. He was alone as usual and appeared to be having lunch. I did not speak to him but I recognized him clearly.? She explicitly denied that her sighting of Oswald took place near the front doors: ?Why would I be looking back inside the building? That doesn?t make any sense to me.?

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #406 on: June 20, 2018, 11:18:21 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #407 on: June 20, 2018, 11:37:46 PM »
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The witnessing of the soda is extremely valuable because it makes credible researchers ask if this was the long-sleeved Oswald with the Coke?...That would then mean the T-shirt Oswald witnessed by Mrs Reid was another Oswald with another Coke...The Coke bottle being a useful intelligence prop to make witnesses think the two Oswald's were one person...

Dear Lord in heaven, why must some people complicate what is very simple? LHO bought a coke in the lunchroom a few minutes before the assassination and took this coke down to the first floor, and that's where he was when the assassination happened. There was no lunchroom encounter with Baker and Truly. It's all in that first interrogation report. The only serious debate now is where exactly on the first floor LHO was when the President passed the building!
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 11:39:39 PM by Alan Ford »

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #407 on: June 20, 2018, 11:37:46 PM »

Offline Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #408 on: June 21, 2018, 01:05:53 AM »
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He did see him, he was standing right across the landing from him, are you blind?
How could he not see him? Because he must be up on the sixth?
As discussed for some years now, sufficient evidence places LeeHarveyOswald on the 2nd floor as the motorcade drove past the TSBD. Why did you make a non-provable statement?
Why did BuellWesleyFrazier not testify that he saw LeeHarveyOswald on the landing as filmed at/or near the time of the assassination? Why did any known stairs/landing portal area occupant not testify that they had seen LeeHarveyOswald among them on the stairs/landing as filmed at/or near the time of the assassination? Why did LeeHarveyOswald not testify that he was the person represented by PrayerPersonImage, as the assassination occurred?

Offline Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #409 on: June 21, 2018, 01:24:07 AM »
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Dear Lord in heaven, why must some people complicate what is very simple? LHO bought a coke in the lunchroom a few minutes before the assassination and took this coke down to the first floor, and that's where he was when the assassination happened. There was no lunchroom encounter with Baker and Truly. It's all in that first interrogation report. The only serious debate now is where exactly on the first floor LHO was when the President passed the building!

There are statements and/or testimony that DPD Officer MarrionLewisBaker, along with TexasSchoolBookDepository Building Superintendent RoySansomTruly encountered TSBD Bldg Employee LeeHarveyOswald at about 12:31:30/12:32:00pm CST on 11/22/'63, on the TSBD Bldg 2nd floor at/or near the lunchroom. And, that eliminates any "serious debate" about LeeHarveyOswald being on the 1st floor at said time.
It has become a complicated issue simply because, against all odds, some folks have reasoning to promote the not provable LeeHarveyOswald is PrayerManTheory.



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« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 04:08:47 PM by Larry Trotter »

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #409 on: June 21, 2018, 01:24:07 AM »

 

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