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Author Topic: Prayer Woman  (Read 262001 times)

Online Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #2620 on: February 13, 2019, 07:04:06 PM »
Jim D thinks about this forum a lot:

Quote
But I still think you and he belong at Duncan's.  That is more like WWE.  We are more evidence based here.

People were focused on JFK but it isn't honest to ignore the numerous examples of portal occupants naming all the other portal occupants in numerous examples of testimony, witnessings,  and police interviews...

Jim's contemptuous ignoring of Davidson's image of a woman's face on Prayer Man is an example of his strict "evidence-based" discipline?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 07:05:35 PM by Brian Doyle »

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #2620 on: February 13, 2019, 07:04:06 PM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #2621 on: February 13, 2019, 07:10:29 PM »
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Tim:   I gave a lengthy reply to this that showed Oswald left by the rear exit 10 minutes after the shots but it was deleted...


Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #2622 on: February 13, 2019, 07:12:00 PM »
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Nice dodging of the evidence-connected detail Tim...What is your opinion on my claim that Kamp and the Prayer Man cultists are ignoring the obvious chronology established in Fritz's interview where Oswald's locating of himself starts at the lunch room encounter and any mention of being outside is minutes later when he left the Depository?...It is highly dishonest for them to try to say these outside with Shelley or watching the parade claims are during the shooting...

I'm ignoring Iacoletti's trolling...

Of course you are.  You want to continue to lie about the evidence without being accountable.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #2622 on: February 13, 2019, 07:12:00 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #2623 on: February 13, 2019, 07:15:18 PM »
Friends, I've been reading back through the momentous "Oswald Leaving TSBD?" thread at the Education Forum!

On 21 August 2013, Mr Sean Murphy wrote the following:

Carolyn Arnold insisted--to Anthony Summers, Earl Golz, Gary Mack and others--that she spotted Oswald in the second-floor lunchroom several minutes before the assassination.

Now put the case that Arnold's claim is true and then read the following section of FBI agents Bookhout & Hosty's co-written first interrogation report (11/22/63):

"Oswald stated that he went to lunch at approximately noon and he claimed he ate his lunch on the first floor in the lunchroom; however he went to the second floor where the Coca-Cola machine was located and obtained a bottle of Coca-Cola for his lunch. Oswald claimed to be on the first floor when President John F. Kennedy passed this building."

The startling possibility arises that Bookhout and Hosty are giving Oswald's three claims in simple chronological sequence:

    I went to lunch in the domino room
    Then I went up to the second-floor lunchroom and bought a coke
    Then I went back down to the first floor, which is where I was when the President passed the building

Claim 1 comes with a precise location--the domino room--and is supported by Oswald's noticing two black co-workers passing through (i.e. Norman & Jarman coming in the back entrance of the first floor and proceeding across to the freight elevator)

Claim 2 comes with a precise location--the second-floor lunchroom--and is supported by Carolyn Arnold's recollection

Claim 3 comes without any precise location, a fact which just may be explained by the utterly calamitous location of the Prayer Man figure in Wiegman & Darnell.

Did Lee Oswald offer Will Fritz a very precisely localised Claim 3 and were the details of this alibi-sealing claim suppressed?



Mr Murphy's question was answered this week with a resounding Yes:



Murphy nailed it Thumb1:

Online Bill Chapman

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #2624 on: February 13, 2019, 07:21:24 PM »
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Tim:   I gave a lengthy reply to this that showed Oswald left by the rear exit 10 minutes after the shots but it was deleted...

Buell certainly said that Oswald left by the rear entrance (in the 2002 C-Span interview which is readily available online). Some people here would call you a fabricator rather than revisit that interview.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 07:23:39 PM by Bill Chapman »

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #2624 on: February 13, 2019, 07:21:24 PM »

Online Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #2625 on: February 13, 2019, 07:58:08 PM »
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    Then I went back down to the first floor, which is where I was when the President passed the building

Which ignores that Oswald could not get back upstairs to get to the 2nd floor lunch room encounter without being seen and without being out of breath...

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #2626 on: February 13, 2019, 08:21:09 PM »
Now! Most of the attention these past few days has for obvious reasons focused on the bit about Mr Oswald going "outside to watch P. Parade".

But! The bit before that-------"He went to 2nd floor to get Coca Cola to eat with lunch and returned to 1st floor to eat lunch"-------is in its own way just as significant. Why, oh why, I hear you ask!

Simple----------it kills dead the notion that Mr Oswald himself confirmed the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter with Officer Baker.

Think about it, friends! The Hosty note makes it plainer than plainest day that Mr Oswald's claim per the Bookhout solo-run report------------

Oswald stated that on November 22, 1963, at the time of the search of the Texas School Book Depository building by Dallas police officers, he was on the second floor of said building, having just purchased a Coca-cola form the soft-drink machine, at which time a police officer came into the room with pistol drawn and asked him if he worked there.

------------is a claim that Mr Oswald never made!

Think about it! For Mr Oswald to have said this would amount to the following piece of gibberish:

OSWALD: "At the time of the search of the building by police officers I was on the second floor, having just purchased a Coca Cola from the machine. A police officer came in but my boss told him I was alright. Then I brought the coke back down to the first floor to eat my lunch."
FRITZ: "OK, what did you do next?"
OSWALD: "Then I went outside to watch the Presidential parade."

Went outside to watch the Presidential Parade------Parade!! not 'excitement' or 'commotion', but Parade!!--------after being challenged by a police officer with pistol drawn???

  :D
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 08:24:40 PM by Alan Ford »

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #2626 on: February 13, 2019, 08:21:09 PM »

Online Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #2627 on: February 13, 2019, 08:42:32 PM »
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Buell certainly said that Oswald left by the rear entrance (in the 2002 C-Span interview which is readily available online). Some people here would call you a fabricator rather than revisit that interview.

Thanks...It starts at time mark 12:50 of Part II of Frazier's 2002 interview with Gary Mack...

Mack:   Have you heard subsequently how he left the building?

Frazier:  When we were outside the building before we'd gone in...I remember Lee coming from the, ahh, dock area...And walk up the street beside the Texas School Book Depository building...And there were so many things going on...And I saw him as he walked up...And he went across Houston Street...And I thought he may have been going to get him a sandwich or something...So I really didn't think anything about it...And I lost him in the crowd and I don't know what happened from there...

Mack:  How long after the assassination do you think this was?

Frazier:  Oh probably, 5 to 10 minutes probably...

Mack:  So you remember seeing him briefly coming down Houston Street along the side of the building?

Frazier:  Yes...

Mack:  So that told you that he must have gone out the back door by the loading dock?

Frazier:  Yes...By the loading dock...That's exactly right...

Mack:  And did you see him cross Houston Street?

Frazier:  Ahh, he crossed Houston Street and then started across Elm St...And I turned because someone said something to me...And I turned to answer them and then when I turned back and looked in that direction he was gone...

Mack:  Could he have come out the front door of the Depository?

Frazier  No...

Mack:  No...So how far away from him do you think you were when you saw him?

Frazier:  The closest I got to him...When he was walking up...Along side the Texas School Book Depository...Coming from the dock area...Was probably 10-12 feet...

Mack:  Do you remember anything about him?...Did he look...

Frazier:  No...He didn't look any different or act any different then he <interruption> did...There was so many people and so much chaos and everything all around by then...That I thought maybe he was just going somewhere to get him a sandwich...

Mack:  And how was he dressed?...Do you remember?...Was he in his T-shirt or did he have a shirt on?...

Frazier:  Ahh, he had his jacket on... 

Mack:  He had his jacket...

Frazier:   He had his jacket on that day...

Mack:  Let me regroup here...So at some point you finally went back in the building...And then went downstairs into the basement...To eat your lunch...You were down in the basement when some investigators...Police or whatever came in...

Frazier:  Yes...
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 08:45:11 PM by Brian Doyle »

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #2627 on: February 13, 2019, 08:42:32 PM »

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #2628 on: February 13, 2019, 10:03:00 PM »
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Tim:   I gave a lengthy reply to this that showed Oswald left by the rear exit 10 minutes after the shots but it was deleted...

Nothing that you could have said in that lengthy reply would have made the signed sworn affidavit of Wesley Frazier go away.

"I did not see Lee anymore after about 11:00 AM today, and at that time, we were both working, and we were on the first floor."

Wesley Frazier
SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 22 DAY OF November A.D. 1963
/s/Mary Rattan
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas

You cannot dismiss that in favour of a 40 year old recollection.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 10:04:39 PM by Tim Nickerson »

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #2629 on: February 13, 2019, 10:07:27 PM »
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Nice dodging of the evidence-connected detail Tim...What is your opinion on my claim that Kamp and the Prayer Man cultists are ignoring the obvious chronology established in Fritz's interview where Oswald's locating of himself starts at the lunch room encounter and any mention of being outside is minutes later when he left the Depository?...It is highly dishonest for them to try to say these outside with Shelley or watching the parade claims are during the shooting...

Any attempt to create a chronology based on notes or reports on what Oswald said during his interrogations and interviews is a fool's errand. Both you and the Prayer Man clique have done just that. You both are so desperate to establish an alibi for Oswald that you've abandoned all reason in the process. And you both laughingly declare success, when in reality, you both fail miserably. To establish an alibi, not only do you need to present evidence that Oswald was somewhere other than the sniper's nest at the time of the shooting at the time, you need to deal with evidence that indicates that he was not where you claim that he was. Neither you nor the Prayer Man clique can do so with any credibility because you dismiss sworn statements and official documents and instead embrace decades old recollections and third person accounts.

I tend to believe that Sarah Stanton was the heavy set person standing in the shadow on the steps of the building. I'm 90 % certain that it was her. However, the argument that Oswald was in the Second floor lunchroom at the time of the shooting has no real basis of support. That's why Sean Murphy had to come up with Oswald as Prayer Man. As he said on the ED Forum back in Sept of 2013, "The Second floor lunchroom story doesn't exonerate Oswald,..it cruelly robs him of his 100% watertight alibi."

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #2629 on: February 13, 2019, 10:07:27 PM »

 

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