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Author Topic: Prayer Woman  (Read 53146 times)

Online Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1710 on: August 10, 2018, 05:27:12 AM »
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There's no way anyone can get around the fact Calvery is provably at the steps in Darnell...Therefore, according to all known testimony, she has completed her run shouting the president has been shot...The reason Lovelady & Shelley spoke to Calvery at the base of the steps is because they wanted to hear more about it...Frazier has made clear in several interviews that upon hearing Calvery convey this information he turned to Sarah to ask what Calvery had said and Sarah confirmed that Calvery had said the president has been shot...In his 2013 interview Frazier said he and Sarah just looked at each other in shock for a long time...Since Couch/Darnell is about 3 seconds after Calvery's communication that proves Frazier is well in to the exact time period in question when he described looking at Sarah...Darnell clearly shows Frazier focused on Prayer Man so that makes Prayer Man Sarah...There's no doubt that Frazier is accurate on this because 1) He has repeated it identically in different interviews...2) It was burned in to his memory by the shock of learning JFK had been shot...3) It is supported by the visual evidence...4) Stanton cannot be seen anywhere else on the landing in the film images...5) Prayer Man's body features and height match Stanton's...

This is reasonable proof and the JFK assassination community is in open contempt of it and deals with it by ignoring and banning...We know which end the "disintegrating" is occurring on...Larsen stays uncredibly silent on his own discovery...The main Prayer Man proponent is falsely claiming Calvery has not been positively identified...

Brian, as I am sure you know, I sometime back concluded that research has provided reliable evidence indicative of PrayerPersonImage, aka PrayerWomanImage, representing SarahStanton. However, I am having a problem comprehending the portal/stairway scene in DarnellFilm.

Their own testimony places KarenWestbrook, KaranHicks, CarolReed, and GloriaCalvery, standing together on the Elm St sidewalk, west of the TSBD Bldg to view the motorcade. And, in I believe ZapruderFilm133, their images appear to be seen from the rear, left to right. And, I believe JohnTemplinImage is to GloriaCalveryImage's right.

The DFilm appears to show GloriaCalveryImage, and KaranHicksImage, at the portal stairway entrance just seconds after the last known shot was fired, and as DPD OfficerBakerImage, and RunningWomanImage approach the stairway. And, if RunningWomanImage represents CarolReed, then where is KarenWestbrookImage?

If BillyLoveladyImage has left the stairway and walking west on Old ElmSt, he cannot not be represented by the PersonImage in front of and facing GloriaCalveryImage at or near the bottom stairstep.

Allowing for KarenWestbrookImage to be wearing a light blue headscarf, I have to conclude her a possibility, and seen from the rear showing the back of her headscarf and climbing the stairs just ahead of GloriaCalveryImage.

On the other hand, if BillyLoveladyImage is still on the stairs, he cannot be with BillShelleyImage on Old ElmSt, at the time of DFilm.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1710 on: August 10, 2018, 05:27:12 AM »


Online Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #1711 on: August 10, 2018, 05:01:54 PM »
Larry: Roberdeau, or whoever placed the names on the spectators in the Newsweek Zapruder frame, got some names wrong so I am not 100% positive on Peggy Burney and Betty Thornton being who they are labeled in the Newsweek Zapruder frame...All I know is that it does not matter exactly who they are in comparison to locating Calvery at the steps...I know Calvery is Calvery because her son Chris told me in a private phone call that "Tall Woman" in Betzner 3 was definitely his mother...I had called Chris Calvery trying to get him to identify "Running Woman" as his mother...Chris obviously knew his stuff because he corrected me and sent me to Betzner...I had never heard of Betzner before Calvery referred me to it...When I enlarged Tall Woman on my Smartphone screen, sure enough there was Gloria's face, no doubt about it...If you notice Calvery is taller than Thornton in the Newsweek Zapruder frame of the spectators...The woman with the dark scarf on the steps is also equally taller...

When Graves & Larsen first discovered Calvery in Darnell I did not pay attention to it because Larsen was an Oswald as Prayer Man supporter...I did not want to read any further nutty evidence from a person who didn't realize Oswald wasn't Prayer Man...That was a mistake because I didn't realize at the time that Graves & Larsen had discovered the evidence that would finally prove Prayer Man was Stanton...It wasn't until I saw the Frazier interviews for the first time that I realized Graves & Larsen had discovered proof that put Frazier's location of both Calvery and Stanton in context...Graves stood up for me because after I PM'ed him he also realized what his discovery had shown...Graves' reward for posting the truth was a similar ban as myself...Larsen took the coward's route and got silent about his claim and hasn't spoken about it since...Because Larsen covered-up and let people get unfairly banned because of his own discovery he is a welcomed poster and not banned...He will have no problem posting...

So Larry, while the exact identity of the two women next to Calvery is important and does further our knowledge it isn't exactly necessary to prove Calvery's presence at the steps or her relationship to Frazier's locating of Stanton...If Running Woman is Carol Reed or Peggy Burney makes no difference to the identification of Gloria Calvery, who is definitely Graves & Larsen's dark scarf woman at the steps...The woman labeled "Betty Thornton" by Roberdeau in the Newsweek Zapruder frame obviously ran with Calvery to the steps and therefore helped in her identification...The main Prayer Man supporter simply says all this is wrong or lies and denies Calvery's presence at the steps while no one challenges him...

The JFK research community obviously has a credibility/honesty problem...

« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 05:16:32 PM by Brian Doyle »

Online Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1712 on: August 10, 2018, 07:12:23 PM »
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Larry: Roberdeau, or whoever placed the names on the spectators in the Newsweek Zapruder frame, got some names wrong so I am not 100% positive on Peggy Burney and Betty Thornton being who they are labeled in the Newsweek Zapruder frame...All I know is that it does not matter exactly who they are in comparison to locating Calvery at the steps...I know Calvery is Calvery because her son Chris told me in a private phone call that "Tall Woman" in Betzner 3 was definitely his mother...I had called Chris Calvery trying to get him to identify "Running Woman" as his mother...Chris obviously knew his stuff because he corrected me and sent me to Betzner...I had never heard of Betzner before Calvery referred me to it...When I enlarged Tall Woman on my Smartphone screen, sure enough there was Gloria's face, no doubt about it...If you notice Calvery is taller than Thornton in the Newsweek Zapruder frame of the spectators...The woman with the dark scarf on the steps is also equally taller...

When Graves & Larsen first discovered Calvery in Darnell I did not pay attention to it because Larsen was an Oswald as Prayer Man supporter...I did not want to read any further nutty evidence from a person who didn't realize Oswald wasn't Prayer Man...That was a mistake because I didn't realize at the time that Graves & Larsen had discovered the evidence that would finally prove Prayer Man was Stanton...It wasn't until I saw the Frazier interviews for the first time that I realized Graves & Larsen had discovered proof that put Frazier's location of both Calvery and Stanton in context...Graves stood up for me because after I PM'ed him he also realized what his discovery had shown...Graves' reward for posting the truth was a similar ban as myself...Larsen took the coward's route and got silent about his claim and hasn't spoken about it since...Because Larsen covered-up and let people get unfairly banned because of his own discovery he is a welcomed poster and not banned...He will have no problem posting...

So Larry, while the exact identity of the two women next to Calvery is important and does further our knowledge it isn't exactly necessary to prove Calvery's presence at the steps or her relationship to Frazier's locating of Stanton...If Running Woman is Carol Reed or Peggy Burney makes no difference to the identification of Gloria Calvery, who is definitely Graves & Larsen's dark scarf woman at the steps...The woman labeled "Betty Thornton" by Roberdeau in the Newsweek Zapruder frame obviously ran with Calvery to the steps and therefore helped in her identification...The main Prayer Man supporter simply says all this is wrong or lies and denies Calvery's presence at the steps while no one challenges him...

The JFK research community obviously has a credibility/honesty problem...


Brian: Understood, and their own location testimony contradicts the Newsweek ZFrame alluded to identity.
Any conclusions about BillyLoveladyImage in DarnellFilm and/or CouchFilm? Or, for that matter, my interpretation?
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 06:20:50 AM by Larry Trotter »

Online Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #1713 on: August 10, 2018, 07:48:40 PM »
It can't be Lovelady if we see him headed up the Elm St extension with Shelley...

Online Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1714 on: August 10, 2018, 08:07:08 PM »
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It can't be Lovelady if we see him headed up the Elm St extension with Shelley...
Well Brian, that's kinda sorta what I thought. In any event, can't be the same PersonImage in both places. However, there is a lot of, uhh, we'll call it (?}research, that places BillyLoveladyImage on a lower step and facing GloriaCalveryImage in DFilm. Even a VirtualPortal has a BL Mannequin in that spot.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 06:19:05 AM by Larry Trotter »

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1714 on: August 10, 2018, 08:07:08 PM »


Online Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #1715 on: August 10, 2018, 08:12:58 PM »
Get a load of DiEugenio standing up for Alex Jones' free speech rights...Even though Jones posted nutty Fetzer-like claims that Sandy Hook and the Boston Bombing were staged crisis actor events Jim stands up against his being censored and banned by Facebook...Meanwhile when I posted my correct proof that Prayer Man was Stanton Jim ignored it and went after me with dirty defamation, painting me as a justly-banned nut who was trying to sneak back on and get people to post for him...And nobody points my case out to Jim to show him what a huge hypocrite he is...
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 08:15:22 PM by Brian Doyle »

Online Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1716 on: August 10, 2018, 08:36:09 PM »
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Get a load of DiEugenio standing up for Alex Jones' free speech rights...Even though Jones posted nutty Fetzer-like claims that Sandy Hook and the Boston Bombing were staged crisis actor events Jim stands up against his being censored and banned by Facebook...Meanwhile when I posted my correct proof that Prayer Man was Stanton Jim ignored it and went after me with dirty defamation, painting me as a justly-banned nut who was trying to sneak back on and get people to post for him...And nobody points my case out to Jim to show him what a huge hypocrite he is...
Speakers and writers need freedom of speech.
However, listeners and readers have rights also, and should be hearing and reading factual truth.

And, although a learning process is required, I as a listener/reader now am confident that I know how to pick and choose sources.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 04:16:56 PM by Larry Trotter »

Offline Frederick Clements

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1717 on: August 11, 2018, 02:57:09 PM »
If PM is not Oswald,why is the TV company that owns the original PM footage refusing to release the footage? What are they trying to hide?

Fred

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1717 on: August 11, 2018, 02:57:09 PM »


Offline Duncan MacRae

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1718 on: August 11, 2018, 03:50:01 PM »
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If PM is not Oswald,why is the TV company that owns the original PM footage refusing to release the footage? What are they trying to hide?

Fred
As far as I am aware, via Bart Kamp's excellent research on the whereabouts of the original Darnell film, the TV company claims not to have the original film, so......

Please post the recorded verifiable statement that confirms your above quoted statement.




Online Brian Doyle

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #1719 on: August 11, 2018, 04:13:23 PM »
I chased the two films pretty high up the chain...If NBC possesses them they are not being open about it...The current loggerhead with the NBC newsreel archive is you cannot be an individual and apply for the films...You have to be an organization or business...So researchers get cut-off at the start...I suppose independent researchers could petition through the ARRB that had Congressional laws that made the films obtainable if they were considered evidence...But I think ARRB has expired legally so we are right back to facing the moat and wall of arrogant corporate America that is pretty far from the noble democracy of the individual they sold it as when I was a kid in school...

The main problem with the Murphy theory is it is a crackpot theory that came from the fantasizing imagination of Peg Barker...So in other words it is making a mainstream serious effort to track down the evidence for a nutty theory in the first place...Then there is even question if the originals still exist in the first place because there have been purges of newsreel archives for "space"...

I called the makers of "Inside The Target Car" in Los Angeles and tried to get them interested to see if they could take up the Prayer Man theory and get the originals as part of the production...I spoke to the producer and he was amicable enough, however he told me the Prayer Man subject was not substantial enough to draw his interest and that 'Inside The Target Car' was inspired by his working with Gary Mack...I also called a major university's film and photo department and they told me to encapsulate the project in an e-mail...I sent that e-mail several months ago and they haven't gotten back to me...

The entities that possess the Darnell and Wiegman films are not holding them back because they show Oswald...I have already proven they don't...They are holding them back because all mainstream American institutions are now in an official non-participation mode in order to prevent any actions or investigations that lead to the public realizing there is now good evidence that Oswald was in the 2nd floor lunch room during the shots and that is why the plotters needed to kill him so fast... 
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 04:37:24 PM by Brian Doyle »

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Prayer Woman
« Reply #1719 on: August 11, 2018, 04:13:23 PM »