Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: Prayer Woman  (Read 536258 times)

Offline Alan Ford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4820
Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1336 on: February 25, 2019, 07:21:13 PM »
Advertisement
   Did Not say I bought into it, just that was what was being discussed. It tied into Oswald being inside the Lunch Room PRIOR to exiting the TSBD to view the "P. Parade" per the Hosty Notes.

IIRC, the theory was that Messrs Oswald and Truly were not alone in the lunchroom when the 'officer' came in. Mrs Reid was suggested as one of those who saw the incident. Hence (again: according to the theory) the strange request in September 1964 that Mr Truly and Officer Baker give statements clarifying that no one had been in the lunchroom other than Mr Oswald.

Make of it what you will, Mr Storing!  Thumb1:
« Last Edit: February 25, 2019, 07:21:56 PM by Alan Ford »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1336 on: February 25, 2019, 07:21:13 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4820
Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1337 on: February 25, 2019, 07:23:44 PM »
The notes that Mr Ford posted were NOT written by James Hosty.....Those notes that Ford posted were the notes of James Bookhout....
And Bookout typed the same words verbatim in his report ....except he corrected that part about going out to watch the P. Parade ..


His report is presented on page 613 of the WR.    Bookhout wrote.... "He claimed that he ate his lunch on the first floor in the lunchroom; however he went to the second floor where the Coca-Cola machine is located and obtained a bottle of Coca-Cola for his lunch. Oswald claimed that he was on the first floor when President Kennedy PASSED BY the building."



It has been pointed out to you that the quoted words come from the joint Hosty-Bookhout report, and yet here you are misrepresenting a basic fact all over again.

V. dishonest!  :(

Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7322
Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1338 on: February 25, 2019, 07:30:23 PM »
It has been pointed out to you that the quoted words come from the joint Hosty-Bookhout report, and yet here you are misrepresenting a basic fact all over again.

V. dishonest!  :(

The scribbled Notes are written by Bookhout.....The typed up report was typed by Bookhout....He used HIS notes ....but corrected the erronous entery about Lee going out to watch the P. Parade.  ( which by the way doesn't even make sense)    IOW it's NONSENSE!

"He went to second floor to get a Coca-Cola to eat with lunch and returned to first floor to eat lunch."[/i---   We don't know if Lee started eating his lunch immediately, or perhaps looked at the newspaper for a few minutes before opening his lunch sack.....But since Hosty wrote that he went to the second floor lunchroom to buy a coke to drink with his lunch we must assume that he bought the coke BEFORE eating his lunch.  and THEN AFTER buying the coke he returned to the Domino Room and ate his lunch and drank the Coca Cola.

'He then went outside to watch the President's parade".....   We know that this chronology is contradictory to the notes that Hosty himself published in his book Assignment: Oswald ....  ( Those notes are posted in this thread...see link below)

And by 99% of the accounts....Baker and Truly encountered Lee in the second floor lunchroom after he'd bought the coke ......

What say you?




JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1338 on: February 25, 2019, 07:30:23 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4820
Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1339 on: February 25, 2019, 07:41:39 PM »
The scribbled Notes are written by Bookhout.....The typed up report was typed by Bookhout....He used HIS notes ....but corrected the erronous entery about Lee going out to watch the P. Parade.  ( which by the way doesn't even make sense)    IOW it's NONSENSE!

"He went to second floor to get a Coca-Cola to eat with lunch and returned to first floor to eat lunch."[/i---   We don't know if Lee started eating his lunch immediately, or perhaps looked at the newspaper for a few minutes before opening his lunch sack.....But since Hosty wrote that he went to the second floor lunchroom to buy a coke to drink with his lunch we must assume that he bought the coke BEFORE eating his lunch.  and THEN AFTER buying the coke he returned to the Domino Room and ate his lunch and drank the Coca Cola.

'He then went outside to watch the President's parade".....   We know that this chronology is contradictory to the notes that Hosty himself published in his book Assignment: Oswald ....  ( Those notes are posted in this thread...see link below)

And by 99% of the accounts....Baker and Truly encountered Lee in the second floor lunchroom after he'd bought the coke ......

What say you?





Good grief, Mr Cakebread!

You asked me this exact question on the other thread, and I gave you a long answer, which you followed up with an incorrect claim, which I politely corrected.

And now here you are, cluelessly recycling your garbage.

Lord preserve us from the idiot wing of the CT movement!

Offline Royell Storing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2621
Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1340 on: February 25, 2019, 07:45:06 PM »
The scribbled Notes are written by Bookhout.....The typed up report was typed by Bookhout....He used HIS notes ....but corrected the erronous entery about Lee going out to watch the P. Parade.  ( which by the way doesn't even make sense)    IOW it's NONSENSE!

"He went to second floor to get a Coca-Cola to eat with lunch and returned to first floor to eat lunch."[/i---   We don't know if Lee started eating his lunch immediately, or perhaps looked at the newspaper for a few minutes before opening his lunch sack.....But since Hosty wrote that he went to the second floor lunchroom to buy a coke to drink with his lunch we must assume that he bought the coke BEFORE eating his lunch.  and THEN AFTER buying the coke he returned to the Domino Room and ate his lunch and drank the Coca Cola.

'He then went outside to watch the President's parade".....   We know that this chronology is contradictory to the notes that Hosty himself published in his book Assignment: Oswald ....  ( Those notes are posted in this thread...see link below)

And by 99% of the accounts....Baker and Truly encountered Lee in the second floor lunchroom after he'd bought the coke ......

What say you?





       Let's back up the truck. Just because something has been Omitted or Changed, ("P. Parade") does Not mean it has been "corrected" as You claim.
       I am assuming that Oswald went DOWN to the 2nd Floor Lunch Room at Noon/lunchtime to get his soda pop. If this is the case how does he then, "RETURNED to the 1st floor to eat lunch" as we see in the Hosty Notes. If it is true that Oswald was Returning to the 1st Floor, it appears we are missing a piece of Oswald's lunchtime itinerary.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2019, 07:46:39 PM by Royell Storing »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1340 on: February 25, 2019, 07:45:06 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4820
Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1341 on: February 25, 2019, 07:48:03 PM »
       Let's back up the truck. Just because something has been Omitted or Changed, ("P. Parade") does Not mean it has been "corrected" as You claim.
       I am assuming that Oswald went DOWN to the 2nd Floor Lunch Room at Noon/lunchtime to get his soda pop. If this is the case how does he then, "RETURNED to the 1st floor to eat lunch" as we see in the Hosty Notes. If it is true that Oswald was Returning to the 1st Floor, it appears we are missing a piece of Oswald's lunchtime itinerary.

Mr. BALL. Was that the last time you saw him?
Mr. PIPER. Just at 12 o'clock.
Mr. BALL. Where were you at 12 o'clock?
Mr. PIPER. Down on the first floor.

Offline Zeon Mason

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 913
Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1342 on: February 25, 2019, 07:49:51 PM »
Yes, Mr Storing, it points up the contrived character of Mr Oswald's alleged claim!  Thumb1: (Compare Mrs Reid's brilliant recollection of a coke----a full coke, mind-----in Mr Oswald's hand.)

Another point of curiosity!:

If one were to read Mr Oswald's supposed words here in isolation----------

"Mr Truly was present and verified that he was an employee and the Police Officer thereafter left the room and continued through the building"

----------one would gain the distinct impression that Mr Truly had been present in the lunchroom with Mr Oswald all along, and that the police officer continued on his search alone.

What makes this so curious is its resonance with what Ms Pauline Sanders told the FBI on the Sunday:



Which would be a very odd error for Ms Sanders to make, given that she was out front and must surely have known that Mr Truly had been out front too and so could hardly have been inside lunching with Mr Oswald!

One assumes-------one must assume--------that the agent misunderstood Ms Sanders.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

However! I once saw it suggested on one of the forums that there was an Oswald-Officer incident in that lunchroom, but that it happened before the shooting and the officer was not Officer Baker. Mr Truly was in the lunchroom with Mr Oswald, who would have assumed this was part of a pre-parade security sweep of buildings in the area.

This is, I think, the only scenario by which Agent Bookhout's solo-written report-----

Oswald stated that on November 22, 1963, at the time of the search of the Texas School Book Depository building by Dallas police officers, he was on the second floor of said building, having just purchased a Coca-cola form the soft-drink machine, at which time a police officer came into the room with pistol drawn and asked him if he worked there. Mr. Truly was present and verified that he was an employee and the police officer thereafter left the room and continued through the building. Oswald stated that he took this Coke down to the first floor and stood around and had lunch in the employee?s lunch room

------could be anything other than a lie. "[A]t the time of the search of the Texas School Book Depository building by Dallas police officers" would mean the supposed pre-parade security sweep of the building. (Mr Oswald being lured into a false sense of security.)

All a little too complicated for my taste though!

A much cleaner solution:

1. Mr Oswald visited the 2nd fl lunchroom before the motorcade (seen there by Ms Arnold & Ms Stanton)
2. He went back down to the 1st floor and stood around eating lunch (noticing Messrs Jarman & Norman coming in by the back door on their way to the back elevator)
3. Hearing the excitement rise outside, he hurried down to the front entrance and stepped outside (seen by the film cameras of Messrs Hughes, Wiegman & Darnell)
4. After the shooting, an officer with pistol drawn (Baker) came charging into the building and asked him if he worked there (=looking for help finding the stairs)
5. Mr Truly came up, identified himself and offered to help the officer
6. Mr Oswald told all this to Captain Fritz
7. DPD told the press all about the incident at the front entrance
8. Once it became clear just how soon after the shooting this incident had happened, it was moved away from the front entrance and near to the back stairway (this happened Friday pm)
9. Mr Oswald's actual claims were rewritten------to ludicrous effect------so as to 'corroborate' the new lunchroom incident.

 Thumb1:


Whenever you can prove beyond reasonable doubt that the 5'3" height of Prayer Person is explained by either "leaning", "stepping down with one leg" , then that would be great.


By logical speculation :the reason for Oswald to have returned thru the front door BEFORE Baker and Truly, is because Oswald needed to get his jacket. 3 places most probable to have left his jacket, are 1. the storage room by the front staircase. 2. the Domino room. 3. the 2nd floor lunchroom.


If this premise is correct, then the meeting of Oswald by Baker could be  1. in the front lobby after passing by the front storage room and Oswald comes out. 2. In the Domino room as Baker and Truly pass by it, and Oswald comes out. 3. In the 2nd floor lunchroom, Oswald having gone up the front staircase, and was on the 2nd half of the staircase, thus out of LOS of Baker and Truly when they entered the front lobby. Oswald reaches the 2nd floor lunchroom via outer hallway or going thru the 2nd floor office, and is in the 2nd floor lunchroom about 10 sec before Baker/Truly arrive 2nd floor landing using rear staircase.


The hypothetical scenario option is that Oswald went to the storage room because:


A. Its the closest place to have suddenly been out of sight in only 5 seconds entering the lobby. Going across the lobby in only 5 seconds also could have been missed being seen by Eddie Piper and Troy West, since the lobby is blocked from LOS to where Piper and West were standing on the 1st floor on the other side of the office area.

B. going up the front staircase, and using the hallway or 2nd floor office to get to the 2nd floor lunchroom is in conflict with Geneva Hine being in the hallway and also entering the office in the 40 to 60 sec post shot range of time.


C. going across the lobby, opening the 2nd set of doors, getting thru the locked counter top office area, and then acoss another 50 ft approx to reach Domino room, unseen, not only by Baker and Truly entering lobby just 5 to 10 second after Oswald, PLUS the presence of Eddie Piper and Troy West on the 1st floor over about midway and with LOS to Domino room, the 1st floor office area, the rear elevators and rear stairs, makes this option less probable.


JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1342 on: February 25, 2019, 07:49:51 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4820
Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1343 on: February 25, 2019, 07:52:32 PM »

B. going up the front staircase, and using the hallway or 2nd floor office to get to the 2nd floor lunchroom is in conflict with Geneva Hine being in the hallway and also entering the office in the 40 to 60 sec post shot range of time.

Great! Now apply this logic to Mrs Reid's claims  Thumb1: