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Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #80 on: January 09, 2018, 09:36:03 PM »
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When did Gary ever say anything about Frazier being "coerced to lie about the long bag", Mr. Strawman?

Notice that Frazier's affidavit is almost entirely about the paper bag.....( Strange!)    I believe that someone wrote this affidavit for Frazier.....  He was not this articulate...

BEFORE ME, Mary Rattan, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared Buell Wesley Frazier, Age 19, 2439 West 5th Street, Irving, Texas WE 3-8965 who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:

I work at Texas School Book Depository, Corner Elm and Houston. I have worked there since September 13, 1963. I fill orders. About a month ago, I met Lee Harvey Oswald at work. I saw that he was a new man, and I walked up to him and asked him if he was Lee. I figured he must be Lee as my sister had told me about him. I asked him if he would like to ride back and forth with me as I knew his wife lived with Ruth Paine near my house, and he said he would, but only on week ends as he had an apartment of his own in Oak Cliff. After that every Friday evening Lee would ride home with me and then ride back to work with me on Monday morning. He has only rode home from work with me on Fridays, but yesterday morning, Thursday, November 21, 1963, Lee told me that he wanted to ride home with me that evening. I was surprised, and I asked him if he was going with me Friday also, and he said, "No". He told me that he was going home to get some curtain rods. Thursday afternoon Lee rode to Irving with me to Ruth Paine's house, where his wife is staying. I let him out of my car in front of Ruth's house, then I went on. This morning, Friday, November 22, 1963, I got up between 6:00 - 6:30 AM, and got ready to go to work, and then sit down to eat breakfast, about 7:15 AM, me, my mother, and my two little neices [sic] were at the table, and my sister was at the sink. My mother looked up and said, "Who is that looking in the window?" I looked up and said, "That's Lee." I got up and finished getting ready and got my lunch and went to the door and met Lee on the car port. We then walked to my car, it was parked backed up at the side of the car port. Before I got in the car, I glanced in the back seat, and saw a big sack. It must have been about 2' long, and the top of the sack was sort of folded up, and the rest of the sack had been kind of folded under. I asked Lee what was in the sack, and he said "curtain rods", and I remembered that he had told me the day before that he was going to bring some curtain rods. We drove to work the same way that I usually go. We came into town on Stemmons Freeway to Main and Main to Record, and then on across the McKinney and by the warehouse to the parking lot. I parked the car and sit there awhile and run the motor to charge the battery, and while I was doing that, Lee got out and opened the back door and got the package out of the back seat and walked behind the car, then I got out of the car and started walking toward the building where I work. I noticed that Lee had the package in his right hand under his arm, and the package was straight up and down, and he had his arm down, and you could not see much of the package. When we started walking, Lee was just a few feet ahead of me, but he kept waking faster than me, and finally got way ahead of me. I saw him go in the back door at the Loading Dock of the building that we work in, and he still had the package under his arm. I did not see him anymore for about 30 minutes, and then we were both working. Lee did not carry his lunch today. He told me this morning he was going to buy his lunch today. I was standing on the front steps of the building when the Parade came by, and I watched the Parade go by. After President Kennedy had got out of my sight, I heard three shots. I stood there, then people started running by, and I turned, and went back in the building and got my lunch and eat it. I did not see Lee anymore after about 11:00 AM today, and at that time, we were both working, and we were on the first floor.

Wesley Frazier
SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 22 DAY OF November A.D. 1963
/s/Mary Rattan
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #80 on: January 09, 2018, 09:36:03 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #81 on: January 09, 2018, 10:02:18 PM »
Notice that Frazier's affidavit is almost entirely about the paper bag.....( Strange!)    I believe that someone wrote this affidavit for Frazier.....  He was not this articulate...

BEFORE ME, Mary Rattan, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared Buell Wesley Frazier, Age 19, 2439 West 5th Street, Irving, Texas WE 3-8965 who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:

I work at Texas School Book Depository, Corner Elm and Houston. I have worked there since September 13, 1963. I fill orders. About a month ago, I met Lee Harvey Oswald at work. I saw that he was a new man, and I walked up to him and asked him if he was Lee. I figured he must be Lee as my sister had told me about him. I asked him if he would like to ride back and forth with me as I knew his wife lived with Ruth Paine near my house, and he said he would, but only on week ends as he had an apartment of his own in Oak Cliff. After that every Friday evening Lee would ride home with me and then ride back to work with me on Monday morning. He has only rode home from work with me on Fridays, but yesterday morning, Thursday, November 21, 1963, Lee told me that he wanted to ride home with me that evening. I was surprised, and I asked him if he was going with me Friday also, and he said, "No". He told me that he was going home to get some curtain rods. Thursday afternoon Lee rode to Irving with me to Ruth Paine's house, where his wife is staying. I let him out of my car in front of Ruth's house, then I went on. This morning, Friday, November 22, 1963, I got up between 6:00 - 6:30 AM, and got ready to go to work, and then sit down to eat breakfast, about 7:15 AM, me, my mother, and my two little neices [sic] were at the table, and my sister was at the sink. My mother looked up and said, "Who is that looking in the window?" I looked up and said, "That's Lee." I got up and finished getting ready and got my lunch and went to the door and met Lee on the car port. We then walked to my car, it was parked backed up at the side of the car port. Before I got in the car, I glanced in the back seat, and saw a big sack. It must have been about 2' long, and the top of the sack was sort of folded up, and the rest of the sack had been kind of folded under. I asked Lee what was in the sack, and he said "curtain rods", and I remembered that he had told me the day before that he was going to bring some curtain rods. We drove to work the same way that I usually go. We came into town on Stemmons Freeway to Main and Main to Record, and then on across the McKinney and by the warehouse to the parking lot. I parked the car and sit there awhile and run the motor to charge the battery, and while I was doing that, Lee got out and opened the back door and got the package out of the back seat and walked behind the car, then I got out of the car and started walking toward the building where I work. I noticed that Lee had the package in his right hand under his arm, and the package was straight up and down, and he had his arm down, and you could not see much of the package. When we started walking, Lee was just a few feet ahead of me, but he kept waking faster than me, and finally got way ahead of me. I saw him go in the back door at the Loading Dock of the building that we work in, and he still had the package under his arm. I did not see him anymore for about 30 minutes, and then we were both working. Lee did not carry his lunch today. He told me this morning he was going to buy his lunch today. I was standing on the front steps of the building when the Parade came by, and I watched the Parade go by. After President Kennedy had got out of my sight, I heard three shots. I stood there, then people started running by, and I turned, and went back in the building and got my lunch and eat it. I did not see Lee anymore after about 11:00 AM today, and at that time, we were both working, and we were on the first floor.

Wesley Frazier
SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 22 DAY OF November A.D. 1963
/s/Mary Rattan
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas

The Assassination Tapes
In 1975 Penthouse Press published George O?Toole?s The Assassination Tapes. Douglas Horne praised this volume as ?a delightful gem of a book? and ?the evidence he presented is just as relevant?and just as valid?today, as it was in 1975.?(40) Harold Weisberg criticized the book for two reasons: (a) He felt O?Toole had borrowed way too much from Whitewash IV (bordering on plagiarism) without giving him credit, and (b) he thought some of his wild speculation was too much for him to handle. Weisberg did not impugn the actual technology and methodology O?Toole had used, however.(41) Mark Lane totally embraced the technology and wished he had it when he was seeing and recording witnesses in Dallas. It would have sent him in other directions of investigation.(42)
Despite the controversy, O?Toole?s investigation, which is based upon voice stress analysis, is full of intrigue. The Psychological Stress Evaluator was invented in 1971 (43) and patented in 1976 by Bell, McQuiston and Ford.(44) Their model PSE 1000 was marketed by the Dektor Counterintelligence and Security Co.(45) According to O?Toole, this device opened up a whole new playing field for investigators. He was now able to use recorded exchanges to chart the degree of stress in voice recordings no matter how old or far away.(46) O?Toole went back and retroactively analyzed voice recordings of Oswald and determined he had been telling the truth about ?not shooting anyone.?(47)
Next, O?Toole also analyzed Frazier?s CBS interview (YouTube video below) shortly after the assassination, however, and determined his degree of deception had gone through the roof during the entire 42 second exchange: (48)
?Judging from the PSE charts, when Buell Wesley Frazier made that statement, he was in a condition of sheer terror.?(49)
Now O?Toole was ready to deal with Frazier by interviewing him himself. His first order of business was, of course, to find him. After failing to find him in Dallas he visited Linnie Mae who quickly brushed him off. The only thing he could get out of her was the fact that Frazier was in the Army and could not be contacted.(50)
While in Dallas he called Paul Bentley, senior polygraph examiner at the time (of the assassination). Bentley claimed not to have been on duty that night because of a sprained ankle that was in a cast. (He detected hard stress in his voice.)(51) Next, he decided to talk to R.D. Lewis, who, according to DPD documents, was the technician who administered the polygraph to Frazier. Lewis denied administering any polygraph ?connected to Oswald? that night (hard stress).(52) Furthermore, O?Toole established that R.D. Lewis never signed the DPD report, which had Rose and Stovall?s name on it, and ?Lewis had not gone on record anywhere to the effect that Frazier had passed the test.?(53) Lewis would not testify before the Warren Commission.
For his next interview, he spoke to Detective Gerald Hill at his home. Hill advised O?Toole that Fritz could not have ordered the polygraph: ? ?cause Fritz didn?t believe in polygraphs. He wouldn?t use ?em ? (near maximum stress).(54) He returned and spoke to Bentley again, who told him that was not true, he had run ?many, many? examinations for Captain Fritz.(55)
He decided to see Detective Richard Stovall, who was with Frazier most of the early evening and night of 11/22 until he dropped him off after midnight.(56) The first thing he found out from Stovall was that he had not been present for Frazier?s polygraph. (Hard stress appeared.)(57) This directly contradicted his WCVIIH192 testimony.(58)
He also spoke to Guy F. Rose, the detective who was with Stovall and Adamcik that day. Rose now contradicted Hill regarding Fritz?s confidence in the polygraph test.(59)
O?Toole then contacted R.D. Lewis again, armed with information contained in Jim Bishop?s 1967 book, The Day Kennedy was Shot, and Warren Commission references that mentioned the polygraph. He now started to vaguely remember maybe giving Frazier a polygraph test that night. Finally, O?Toole concluded that there was no credibility to Frazier having passed the polygraph test.(60)


It was now time to get serious about finding Frazier. He checked with an Army contact and was told there had never been anyone by that name in the Army.(61) From there, he heard from another contact with ?very good FBI connections? that Frazier was working at the Boeing Corporation, in Renton, who was not the only source. Then he went chasing him through most of the bases he had been in the south, sometimes just missing him.(62)
On a visit to Dektor, he happened to meet Tony Pellicano, an expert at finding people.(63) With the help of Pellicano, O?Toole at last located Frazier in December 1973 in Texas, stationed at Fort Hood, only 100 miles south of Dallas. Frazier was living on the base and commuting back and forth to Irving on weekends.(64) When he finally recorded his interview with Frazier, it was no less than stunning. Pellicano caught Frazier repeatedly lying about just about everything. The following questions produced maximum hard stress or good to hard stress:(65)
1. Did he (Oswald) take that package up with him into the building?
2. Did he tell you he was going to go home with you that night?
3. There was nobody else in the (polygraph) room with you?
4. Did he (the examiner) tell you that you passed the test?
5. Do you know Paul Bently?
6. You never knew he (Oswald) had this gun then?
In closing this chapter, O?Toole wrote:
?The midnight polygraph examination of Buel Wesley Frazier lies at the very heart of the mystery of November 22, 1963. Why does it provoke hard stress, false statements, and curious lapses of memory among the Dallas police officers who should be the most familiar with it? ?the answer to these questions can only be the darkest speculation.? (66)
Frazier and the HSCA
While he was being discharged from the Army in 1977, the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) was forming to reinvestigate the JFK and MLK assassinations. Again, Frazier offered stiff opposition to testifying. ?Frazier continues to procrastinate. Definite resistance.?(67) Frazier was finally interviewed by Investigators Moriarity and Day of the HSCA, but never testified under oath. The reason is pretty obvious when one reads the transcripts. Four audio tapes were made of these interviews, which lingered in oblivion at the National Archives until Greg Parker decided to transcribe them. Tapes one and two were useless because of time deterioration.(68)
Tape number three described how he stayed put on the steps:
?I continued to stay right on the steps where I was. I didn?t move from there, I didn?t talk with someone who was sitting there that, uh, was ? was on the stairs, as I said earlier. With the same two people. And the shots came from ? apparently now ? they came from around in a group of people scrambling.? Later on the same topic, ?And I moved to the right. ?Cause I was very interested in staying ? there is no way to get caught. Standing there in the middle.?(69)
Then Day asked him a very simple, important and relevant question:
DAY: Are you in any pictures?
FRAZIER: No ? I don?t remember. What, uh-what I was gonna say is that it sounded ? sounded like they were taken in the fall. It was then that was, you know, perfect. But being there at that time I didn?t know.(70)
This tape also contains what seem to be other incoherent statements from Frazier. However, they seem incoherent if you do not know about his induction into the Army. His references to ?military? and ?Seattle? are not a coincidence. Had this man been mentally tormented, with the spectre of being sent to Vietnam at the whim of the people who were running this operation? It was crucial that they keep a lid on Frazier. This was the star witness who helped to ?convict? Lee Oswald in the public eye.
Consider the following exchange from page six:
?And anyways they terminated asking questions and when I answered back I tried to?I tried to tell them the truth. And that made them very angry.?(71) The only thing we can think of that could elicit this type of reaction would have been that he told them that perhaps his friend Lee Oswald was right next to him at the front entrance.
On tape four he talked about the advantage the TSBD employees had being on the steps at a higher level and in the sunlight to avoid the crowded curbs, and how he kept going from the doorway to the sunshine and again, confirming his position when the motorcade drove by, next to the ?big heavy set lady?.(72) These details are very important because they refute the argument that he was in the shadows of the doorway when the motorcade drove by:(73)
?So we stepped back out then down on?out on to the steps. ?so we stepped back into the sunlight then where actually we could see better. Because that?s you know its not every day that you can see the President of the United States come by in a motorcade a few feet away.?
FRAZIER: OK, I know some of the girls that worked in the uh offices above and they stepped out into the sunlight with me there and I know the big heavy set woman she was right there.(74)

Take a look at the same area, but from the angle of Dave Weigman, who was traveling in a press cars, the 7th car in the motorcade, 1 or 2 seconds after the last shots. The three people shielding their eyes are still there, right? Now focus on the man sandwiched in between these three.
These images confirm this is a young, tall, slim, long-limbed man with long neck, black hair, triangular shaped combination of head and hair. He is wearing a long sleeved dark colored shirt rolled up right below the elbow.Why is this man not seen in Altgens6? The three people in Altgens6 who are shielding their eyes with their hands are accounted for. Doorman is also accounted for as well as the black man who is at his lower right.
When we flip the 11/22/63 photograph taken of Buell Frazier and compare it to the figure in Weigman, we get a perfect match. He happens to be standing exactly on the stairs where he said he was in his own hand written statement the night of 11/22/63.(75)
His Warren Commission testimony was taken 3/11/64 by Mr. Joseph (?I won?t drop the ball?) Ball. In his testimony, Frazier confirmed his position stating he was ?one step down from the top there?, and ?Yes sir, standing by the rail.? He was shown CE-362, which is a only a schematic drawing of the first floor as seen from above to establish his position at the time.(76)

Down the road of deception, lies and duress
Here is where things get dicey. We just proved Frazier was standing on the steps, which was documented as early as the night of the assassination. (77) In his Warren Commission testimony, he was asked if he would take a look at CE-369, a version of Altgens6 that is severely cropped. Quoting from page 242 of his testimony:
BALL. We have got a picture taken the day of the parade and it shows the President?s car going by. Now, take a look at that picture. Can you see your picture any place there?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; I don?t, because I was back up in this more or less black area here.
Mr. BALL. I see.

Mr. FRAZIER. Because Billy, like I say, is two or three steps down in front of me.
Mr. BALL. Do you recognize this fellow?
Mr. FRAZIER. That is Billy, that is Billy Lovelady.
Mr. BALL. Billy?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right
Mr. BALL. Let?s take a marker and make an arrow down that way. That mark is Billy Lovelady?
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. That is where you told us you were standing a moment ago.
Mr. FRAZIER. Right.
Mr. BALL. In front of you to the right over to the wall?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes.
Changes at the Entrance
These images are from the Warren Commission. Below left is a schematic drawing of the first floor of the building, the area where Lee Oswald and Wesley Frazier worked side by side filling orders. According to Frazier?s testimony, the only reason for order fillers to have gone up to the sixth floor would have been to process book returns. This was a very simple procedure which required very little time. That morning it was Frazier who had been to the sixth floor at least once. When asked if he had seen Oswald on the sixth floor of the building at any time that morning, he answered, ?No?.(78)

The second image below is the Elm Street main entrance of the building as seen from inside. Notice how restricted the top landing of the entrance was in those days?it could not have been more than 3 feet of horizontal space towards Elm Street, which probably could only accommodate one row of people. Moreover, the radiator against the wall allows us to estimate the space on the other side of the door. The schematic drawing also confirms the door opened both ways and was right in the middle of the landing. This is where Frazier supposedly was, ?in the shadows more or less?.



Years later the entire doorway was replaced with thick, ornate wooden frames, and the door itself pushed further inside the entrance, which greatly increased the area of the landing as we see today at right.
In 1986, Frazier testified at Lee Oswald?s mock trial. At 9:57 into his testimony:
SPENCE: You recall these 23 years later that Mr. Lovelady was standing in front of you at that precise moment ? about 4 steps in front of you, is that correct?
FRAZIER: Yes sir, that is.
SPENCE: Have you ever said that to anybody in the world prior to today?
FRAZIER: I don?t know whether anyone asked me that or not.
SPENCE: But my question is did you ever tell that to anyone in the world ? prior to today?
FRAZIER: Not that I know of, sir.
SPENCE: But you did tell that to Mr. Bugliosi, with the ?g? silent, didn?t you.
FRAZIER: Well I asked this question, awhile ago sir. (nervously chewing gum)

There are major problems with this. Again, Frazier was right in the middle of the group that was on the stairs, one or two steps from the top. The deception orchestrated by Joseph Ball in his Warren Commission testimony is pathetic. It is rife with contradictions. Every time Frazier testified about his position at the stairs of the entrance of the TSBD, no matter in which forum, he gave a different story. In his WC testimony, he gave two different positions (as seen above) within the same session! Doorman is obviously above him, not 2, 3 or 4 steps in front of him! Thanks to Gerry Spence, we have videotaped testimony which shows Frazier lying with impunity under oath. By 1986 he had apparently gotten used to the libretto and did not need any more coaching.
The image to the right is from Ralph Cinque?s Altgens6 re-enactment conducted on 11/7/12 and 11/13/12, the first time this was ever done. It is presented here to confirm the position of doorman at the top step of the stairway. Again, this is also confirmed by Altgens6 and Weigman 658. This image only shows the top 3 of the 7 steps that comprise the stairway itself.

YouTube - Veterans Today -

Alterations of our own
Using 21st century technology, when we reverse engineer the alterations of the doorway of Altgens6 we come up with this. Once we match Frazier?s head size, rotate him, blur him up a bit and transfer him back to where he used to be, it is a perfect fit! Even Special Agent Jack Ready returns to his original, correct size, as seen when compared to his partner right next to him and this inset.

After careful analysis of all of the evidence presented here, there is an extremely high probability that Buell Wesley Frazier and possibly Sarah Stanton were both removed from the Altgens6 photograph. Once we come to terms with this concept, we begin to understand the terrible life of duress Buell Wesley Frazier has lived. He may live well and comfortable today, but he will always know in the back of his mind what really happened and how he helped frame an innocent man
Discussion
Why was Frazier removed from Altgens6? That?s a very good question. Until he and his sister Linnie Mae come clean, all we can do is speculate. When Altgens6 was viewed on 11/22 at 1:00PM, there was a group of TSBD employees spilling out from the top landing area down into the seven doorway steps as seen in Weigman 658, including Frazier and possibly Sarah Stanton. Both were in Altgens line of sight. Thanks to the Warren Commission we know the landing area of the doorway was much smaller then than it is today. Despite the difference in distance, and much like we see in this Skaggs image at right, Hughes right below, and very faintly in Weigman 658, part of the glass divider and silver metal frame should have been visible in the background of Altgens6. Today, this area is mostly obscured. Years later the entrance was retrofitted and remodeled to match Frazier?s ?back in the shadows? story.

Notice how faint the light fixture and the horizontal frame seem in Altgens6 when compared to this Hughes image.
The fact that Lee Oswald and Buell Wesley Frazier knew each other (albeit for only a couple of months), worked side by side filling orders, and car pooled on weekends was too clear and solid a connection. Once the legend of Oswald as a loner, communist and malcontent was established immediately after the assassination, Oswald being with Frazier at the doorway could not be permitted.
Over the years Frazier has misstated his position on at least five or six different occasions, sometimes under oath. He was caught lying by O?Toole quite a few times and the results of his supposed ?midnight polygraph test? have never surfaced.
If Frazier was complicit in setting up Oswald, even in a passive way, his role could have been to deliver the rifle from the Paine?s garage. This could easily have been accomplished by putting the Carcano in the trunk of his car in the early hours of 11/22 or the night before. Being only half a block away either of the Paines could have facilitated this exchange and, with a spare copy of Frazier?s car key, he would not even have had to get out of the couch he slept in. Perhaps the true reason for Frazier lagging behind was to make sure Oswald did not see him bringing a rifle into the TSBD. If he was passively involved, he may have left the rifle in the trunk of his car and allowed others to retrieve it.
They would have had all morning to plant it. Notice on page one how far and isolated from the TSBD his car was parked. Those three blocks seem to be close to half a mile distance to the building as shown in CE-361 below. The distance from his car to the TSBD, according to the scale shown was approximately 2,250 feet. While we are on this topic, another unmentioned possibility, if he was actively involved, could have been used as a chauffeur or a getaway driver for any one of the real participants. His five to six hour absence now starts to look pretty suspicious. By taking McKinney Avenue or Munger Street, he could have left the scene of the crime without being noticed.
When we consider Frazier?s comment about remaining at the steps, ?Cause I was very interested in staying ? there is no way to get caught. Standing there in the middle?, this scenario now takes on new meaning. It was imperative that Frazier be erased from his actual location to the shadows of the doorway, where?by insisting he say, ?I was back up in this more or less black area here? and the power of suggestion?he could become Black Hole Man. Instead of Tinkers to Evers to Chance, we have Frazier to Lovelady to Oswald.
We now present the entire Altgens6, rendered with the person we believe was removed from the photo the day of the assassination, Buell Wesley Frazier.


Larry Rivera, the son of a career military man who served as CID officer in the Army and a Certified Network Engineer, has made a lifelong study of the JFK assassination.  He has given interviews on the assassination to Spanish media and has the most complete dossier on Billy Nolan Lovelady ever done.
References:
1. CE 1381, NPRC report
2. WC2H211
3. Ibid
4. Dallas Morning News 11/16/08 Aynesworth, ?Oswald co-worker no longer silent about JFK assassination role?
5. WC2H212
6. Ibid
7. WC2H246 ?When you live in a place you know some places that someone with, you know, not much of an education can find work?
8. DMN 11/16/08 Aynesworth, ?Oswald co-worker no longer silent about JFK assassination role?
9. DPD handwritten statement pg 1 and affidavit 11/22/63
10. WC2H214
11. WC2H227
12. WC2H228
13. DPD Affidavit 11/22/63 p2 by Mary Rattan
14. DPD handwritten statement and affidavit 11/22/63
15. WC2H235
16. CE 1381 1:00-2:00PM was quite a generous time frame
17. Greg Parker article,9/22/09 ?Whose line is it anyhow?? Buell Wesley Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle
18. DMN 11/16/08 Aynesworth, ?Oswald co-worker no longer silent about JFK assassination role?
19. DPD Rose/Stovall/Adamcik
20. Ibid
21. DPD 148-001
22. DPD Rose/Stovall/Adamcik
23. DPD Rose/Stovall/Adamcik Report and Cover-Up, Shaw 90-91
24. DPD Rose/Stovall/Adamcik pg 4
25. HSCA Tape 4 pg, 2 NPRC report
26. NPRC FOIA report pg 2
27. Ibid
28. GI?s Diary http://www.174ahc.org/diary01.htm by SP4 Horace Cassels
29. NPRC report pg 2
30. NPRC, HSCA Tape 4 pg 2
31. HSCA tape 4 pg 2
32. GI?s Diary http://www.174ahc.org/diary01.htm by SP4 Horace Cassels
33. Armstrong Box 16 Notebook 3, Tab 28 pg 7
34. Shaw trial 1969 BWF pg 26
35. NPRC pg 3
36. NPRC pg 4
37. Ibid
38. Ibid pg 1
39. Ibid
40.Horne, Inside the ARRB Vol V, pg 1654
41. Weisberg letter 7/28/75 (Example: Oswald to buy car and meet FBI in Texas Theater to collect the $200.00)
42. Weisberg photocopy ?forward? of The Assassination Tapes paperback edition
43. Horne, Inside the ARRB Vol V, pg 1655
44. Copy of patent available.
45. http://vsa-avsa.blogspot.com/ The first supplier of VSA technology was Dektor. Dektor manufactured the PSE 1000, an analogue machine, that was later replaced by the PSE 2000
46. The Assassination Tapes (TAT) pg 83-84
47. Ibid pg 125
48. Ibid 171
49. Ibid 172
50. Ibid
51. Ibid 173
52. Ibid 174
53. Ibid 181
54. Ibid 175
55. Ibid 177
56. Ibid 177-179, DPD Report, and WCVIIH192
57. Ibid 178
58. WCVIIH192
59. TAT pg 183-184
60. Ibid 187
61. Ibid 190
62. Ibid 196
63. Ibid
64. Ibid 197
65. Ibid 201-203
66. Ibid 206
67. Armstrong HSCA RG233 hand written notes
68. Greg Parker?s web site. www.ReopenKennedyCase.com
69. Tape III-2
70. Ibid
71. Tape III-6
72 Ibid
73. Ibid
74. Tape IV-14
75. DPD handwritten statement and affidavit 11/22/63
76. WC2H233
77. Op Cit
78. WC2H232
79. WC2H244, despite Ball trying his best to confuse him.
80. DMN 11/16/08 Aynesworth, ?Oswald co-worker no longer silent about JFK assassination role? pg 4
81. ?The Trial of Lee Harvey Oswald? Posted by MinM Fri Nov 21st 2008, http://journals.democraticunderground.com/MinM/109 ?Mark Lane would have been a better choice? Spence allowed Bugliosi to lead witnesses at will.
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POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 12:20 PM
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Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #82 on: January 10, 2018, 06:40:59 AM »
Can anyone provide any sort of proof that Randle actually said that?

Translation:  I cannot prove that Bookhout was lying when he wrote in his report that Randle stated that the bag was three feet long.

It's one thing to run around blowing hot air claiming that evidence is manipulated and FBI reports are lies.  Anybody can do that; it takes no special talent.  It's another thing entirely to actually prove it.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #82 on: January 10, 2018, 06:40:59 AM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #83 on: January 10, 2018, 07:27:54 PM »
Translation:  I cannot prove that Bookhout was lying when he wrote in his report that Randle stated that the bag was three feet long.

I never claimed that Bookhout was lying.  What is it with Nutters and their strawman arguments?

You can either prove that Randle told Bookhout that the bag she saw was "approximately 3 feet by 6 inches" or you cannot.  Bookhout's account is in direct conflict with Randle's testimony.

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #84 on: January 10, 2018, 07:35:47 PM »
I never claimed that Bookhout was lying.  What is it with Nutters and their strawman arguments?

You can either prove that Randle told Bookhout that the bag she saw was "approximately 3 feet by 6 inches" or you cannot.  Bookhout's account is in direct conflict with Randle's testimony.

I've not stated that you claimed Bookhout was lying.  I have not made a straw man argument; you simply misunderstood what you read.

I wonder why you always feel the need to point out the very obvious.  I asked if anyone can show that Bookhout was lying when he stated (in his report) that Randle told him the bag was three feet long.

All you did was chime in with something insignificant to my question and then later point out what everyone already knows, that Randle's testimony differs with what Bookhout stated she told him.

Bookhout's report states that Randle told him the bag was three feet long.  I'll ask again, can anyone prove that Bookhout was lying in his report about what he says Randle told him?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 07:38:34 PM by Bill Brown »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #84 on: January 10, 2018, 07:35:47 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #85 on: January 10, 2018, 08:48:57 PM »
I've not stated that you claimed Bookhout was lying.  I have not made a straw man argument; you simply misunderstood what you read.

I wonder why you always feel the need to point out the very obvious.  I asked if anyone can show that Bookhout was lying when he stated (in his report) that Randle told him the bag was three feet long.

Why are you asking for "anyone" to prove a claim that nobody made?  That's exactly what a strawman is, whether you understand it or not.

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #86 on: January 10, 2018, 09:21:12 PM »
It amuses me no end that you think that it's significant that a bag that was never looked for was never found.

They searched the upper floors for a rifle.  Do you have some reason to believe that they searched anywhere for a bag?

Only in Richard-land where handwaving is called "logic".

You still haven't substantiated this.  Nowhere in your excerpt of Fritz's testimony does he say that Oswald denied carrying a bag the size estimated by Frazier.

On what basis do you assume he lied?

You're a hoot.  If Oswald really "denied bringing a package to work" then that would include a lunch package.  So what did Oswald actually say?  The notes don't say "size estimated by Frazier".  Maybe writing one's interrogation notes several days later isn't the best way to ensure accuracy...

You truly can't be for real.  How do I know that they searched the TSBD and would have found any such bag?  Wait for it...keep waiting...because they found such a bag.  Only it was a bit longer than the one estimated by Frazier.  LOL.  How about you explain to us why Oswald would not have directed them to any such bag had it existed.  It's not being found is not evidence it was there as you stupidly imply but the opposite.  Only a CTer would make that insane suggestion. 

Nowhere in Fritz's testimony does he say that Oswald denied carrying a bag the size estimated by Frazier?  Huh.  He very clearly says that Oswald denied carrying a long bag and that he only carried his lunch. Are you claiming Oswald carried a two-foot plus sized lunch bag?

I asked him, I said, "Did you go toward the building carrying a long package?"
He said, "No. I didn't carry anything but my lunch."

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #86 on: January 10, 2018, 09:21:12 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #87 on: January 10, 2018, 09:36:22 PM »
You truly can't be for real.  How do I know that they searched the TSBD and would have found any such bag?  Wait for it...keep waiting...because they found such a bag.

It's truly sad and scary what you think passes for logic.  You assume that "they" didn't find any other bag than CE142 (even though there's no evidence that they ever looked for one and even though there is no crime scene photo showing such a bag on the 6th floor in the SE corner and even though the first 5 or 6 officers on the scene didn't see such a bag there), so therefore CE142 must have been the bag that Oswald carried, even though the only two people to see the bag that Oswald carried said that it was not.

Quote
Nowhere in Fritz's testimony does he say that Oswald denied carrying a bag the size estimated by Frazier?  Huh.  He very clearly says that Oswald denied carrying a long bag and that he only carried his lunch. Are you claiming Oswald carried a two-foot plus sized lunch bag?

I asked him, I said, "Did you go toward the building carrying a long package?"
He said, "No. I didn't carry anything but my lunch."

Thank you for demonstrating that when you said "Oswald denied carrying a bag the size estimated by Frazier", you just made that part up.  You don't know what was in the bag that Frazier saw.  You don't even know what if anything was ever in CE142.  You just pretend like you do.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 09:39:23 PM by John Iacoletti »