Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: Buell Wesley Frazier  (Read 106143 times)

Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7322
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #200 on: October 02, 2018, 07:48:52 PM »
Advertisement
And there is no reason to think a rifle was ever inside it.

No, Frazier described a shorter bag made out of flimsier paper.

So does the soda bottle.  Just because something was found on the 6th floor doesn't mean that it's automatically connected to the assassination.

Was one ever looked for?  Was Harold Norman's lunch bag ever found?

False again.  Oswald (according to Fritz and Holmes) said he carried some kind of package.

Mr "Smith"...   Conversely, no bag matching Frazier's size estimate is ever found.

Mr Iacoletti...   Was one ever looked for?  Was Harold Norman's lunch bag ever found?

I believe that Detective Day DID find a brown paper sack that was "SHAPED like a gun case"....  He said that he folded that sack up and put it in his pocket and only Roy truly had seen the gun case shaped sack....   Where is that sack??

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #200 on: October 02, 2018, 07:48:52 PM »


Offline Bill Chapman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6513
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #201 on: October 02, 2018, 08:13:55 PM »
When Frazier said the bag he saw fitted between the cup of Oswald?s hand and his armpit, there is no estimate. It?s merely a statement of fact about what he observed. So, Richard... tell us, did he tell the truth?

At what angle did Buell view Oswald with the bag (aside from the back, where  he started out before Buell caught up with him and marched along ---and at speed, I might add--- with Buell lollygagging along, well to the rear)... front, side. or both?

Not to forget sis stating, first-day, that the bag was about 3 feet long*
(Sure shrunk real quick after the implications sunk in, huh)

*Thought I'd bring that up, given the CTroll penchant for grasping onto first-day evidence. Except when it's inconvenient to do so, of course.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 09:30:07 PM by Bill Chapman »

Offline John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10810
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #202 on: October 02, 2018, 08:51:33 PM »
At what angle did Buell view Oswald with the bag (aside from the back, where  he started out before Buell caught up with him and marched along at speed, I might add, with Buell lollygagging along, well to the rear)... front, side. or both?

If your goal is to demonstrate that the bags are the same, then it's not sufficient to just postulate that he could have been mistaken.  That doesn't actually demonstrate that they were the same.

Quote
Not to forget sis stating, first-day, that the bag was about 3 feet long*

Correction:  Bookhout recorded (after the fact) a second hand account of her saying that the bag was about 3 feet long.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #202 on: October 02, 2018, 08:51:33 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7322
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #203 on: October 02, 2018, 08:55:17 PM »
At what angle did Buell view Oswald with the bag (aside from the back, where  he started out before Buell caught up with him and marched along at speed, I might add, with Buell lollygagging along, well to the rear)... front, side. or both?

Not to forget sis stating, first-day, that the bag was about 3 feet long*
(Sure shrunk real quick after the implications sunk in, huh)

*Thought I'd bring that up, given the CTroll penchant for grasping onto first-day evidence. Except when it's inconvenient to do so, of course.

Not to forget sis stating, first-day, that the bag was about 3 feet long*

So you think Lee was about 7 foot tall?     I'd hasten to remind you Billy Bob that Linnie Mae said that Lee was carrying the sack in his right hand and it nearly touched the ground.....If the sack had been three feet long Lee would have been draggin it behind him....unless you think he was about seven feet tall......

You probably should THINK before you post .....Billy Bob......   

Offline Rob Caprio

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1094
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #204 on: October 02, 2018, 09:10:40 PM »
Addendum:

Michael Shermer has pointed out that the side that argues against the truth focuses on minutiae, whether it is 9/11 truthers, Scientific Creationists or Holocaust deniers. And don?t look at the overall picture.

Holocaust deniers claim presence of ?Prussian Blue? in the in the delousing stations but not in the gas chambers prove that the gas chambers were not used to kill people. Ignoring that insects require a much higher presence of cyanide is needed to kill insects (16,000 parts per million) than people (300 parts per million).

Scientific Creationists claiming human footprints besides dinosaur footprints disprove the Theory of Evolution. Ignoring the possibility of the ?human footprints? being chiseled into the rock by fakers.

9/11 Truthers pointing out that the fires could not have been hot enough to melt steel, and not considering that the steel doesn?t have to be melted, just heated to a high enough temperature long enough, to fail to support the tremendous weight of the building.

And just this weekend we see CTers doing the same thing.

1.   The southwest corner of the sixth floor of the TSBD looks like a sniper?s nest, but it is claimed that it is just a bit too cramped to be used to shoot from.

2.   The bag Oswald carried with him into work looked like it could have been used to carry his rifle into work that day, but it is claimed that it was just a bit too short to hold the rifle.

Sadly for you, no one ever saw LHO with a bag inside the TSBD. Furthermore, no bag was ever shown to be in the alleged SN either.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #204 on: October 02, 2018, 09:10:40 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10810
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #205 on: October 02, 2018, 09:11:28 PM »
Only in John's Alice-in-Wonderland world could two people both be telling the truth when one says that the other was carrying a long package and the other says he was not.  LOL.

Fritz - "He said he had a cheese sandwich and some fruit and that was the only package he had brought with him to work and denied that he had brought the long package described by Mr. Frazier and his sister"

Holmes - "When asked if he didn't bring a sack with him the next morning to work, he stated that he did, and when asked as to the contents of the sack, he stated that it contained his lunch. Then, when asked as to the size or shape of the sack, he said 'Oh, I don't recall, it may have a small sack or a large sack, you don't always find one that just fits your sandwiches.'"

The claim that Oswald denied carrying any kind of long package is just flat out false.

Quote
   That one is a keeper.  It highlights John's dishonest approach to the evidence.  You can't have it both ways simply because there is no other way to reconcile the facts to his desired outcome.  Either Oswald or Frazier is lying about the long package.

No, you're being dishonest.  Not only by cherry-picking your interpretation of Fritz's testimony from 8 months later and ignoring everything else, but by also imposing your own biased standard of what "long package" does and does not mean.  The bottom line is that Frazier said that Oswald carried a bag that was not CE142.  Randle said that Oswald carried a bag that was not CE142.  Oswald said he carried a bag that could have been small or large.

Quote
The choice then becomes whether to accept the obvious, common sense interpretation as supported by the evidence (i.e. the long bag found with Oswald's prints on it is the long bag he carried that morning) or entertain baseless alternative fantasies that make no narrative sense (the bag found was planted, no one "looked" for Frazier's bag even though they searched the building and found a similar long bag, and Frazier acted contrary to his own self interest etc).  This is just a devil's advocate game to see how long a contrarian can extend a discussion with his intellectual superiors to feel relevant.

...and it's back to the fantasy conspirators strawman again.  Bottom line again:  you can't show that Oswald carried in CE 142 that morning, you can't show that CE 142 ever had C2766 (or any rifle) inside it, and you can't even show that CE 142 was in the alleged sniper's nest when it was first discovered.

Quote
In addition, John, yet again, dishonestly cites the evidence.  Per Dishonest John: "Frazier saw a package.  Fritz reported that Oswald said he had a package."  John is implying that the long package Frazier saw is the same one Oswald acknowledged carrying (i.e his lunch).  But that is not what the evidence suggests.

I think you're confusing your assumptions ("long package") with evidence.

Quote
  In fact, it is completely to the contrary and excludes this possibility.  What Frazier "reported" was a long package over two feet long which he specifically indicated was not Oswald's lunch.

Frazier also reported that CE 142 was not that bag.  Cherry-picking again?  Frazier's recall is 100% accurate except when you don't want it to be?

Why can't a lunch be in a 2 foot (give or take a few inches) package?  Just because you want it to be a rifle?

Quote
Thus, there is no possibility whatsoever, as John dishonestly suggests with his selective omissions, that Frazier's package and Oswald's lunch could be one and the same package.

Why?  You can't put more than one thing in a package now?

Quote
  Both Frazier and Oswald confirmed they were two distinct items being discussed - a long package and Oswald's lunch.  Common sense also lends itself to the conclusion that no one other than perhaps Fred Flintstone has ever carried his lunch in such a large package.

"Common sense" again.  The last refuge of somebody without evidence.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 09:13:19 PM by John Iacoletti »

Offline Bill Chapman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6513
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #206 on: October 02, 2018, 10:00:55 PM »
If your goal is to demonstrate that the bags are the same, then it's not sufficient to just postulate that he could have been mistaken.  That doesn't actually demonstrate that they were the same.

Correction:  Bookhout recorded (after the fact) a second hand account of her saying that the bag was about 3 feet long.

Is her affidavit a second-hand account, John?

I didn't say anything here about Buell being mistaken. I asked if Buell had seen Oswald from the front while carrying the bag at any point.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #206 on: October 02, 2018, 10:00:55 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10810
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #207 on: October 02, 2018, 10:16:22 PM »
Is her affidavit a second-hand account, John?

Interesting.  Have you seen an affidavit that mentions the length of the bag she saw?

Quote
I didn't say anything here about Buell being mistaken. I asked if Buell had seen Oswald from the front while carrying the bag at any point.

Difficult to say for sure, but possibly when he first got the package out of the car or while he was waiting over by the cyclone fence.  Relevance?