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Author Topic: What Was The Interest In This Topic By The WC?  (Read 636 times)

Online Rob Caprio

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What Was The Interest In This Topic By The WC?
« on: October 18, 2018, 07:58:55 PM »
They asked Adrian Alba this during his testimony.

Mr. LIEBELER - He was really interested----

Mr. ALBA - He was more interested in the Japanese rifle.

Mr. LIEBELER - Had you already sporterized that?

Mr. ALBA - That was completely sporterized.

Mr. LIEBELER - What do you do to a rifle when you sporterize it?

Mr. ALBA - Alter the stock, eliminate me of the weight, and the length of the stock, because it is a military piece to start with, and you glass-bead the stock.

Mr. LIEBELER - And what does that mean?

Mr. ALBA - To accurize the stock, and you put this where you have all metal in contact in the stock. It is referred to as accurizing, and sporterizing, and customizing a piece.

This is interesting given the fact we just saw that Warren Caster supposedly purchased a “sporterized” .30.06 Mauser and brought it into the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) on November 20, 1963. In #81 we looked at some of the incidents that were supposedly LHO taking target practice and we covered this testimony.

Quote on

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see the rifle closely that day--you must have handled it in looking through the scope?

Mr. PRICE. Oh, yes; I handled it--it was a Mauser-type rifle.

Mr. LIEBELER. What do you mean by that--I don't know anything about rifles?

Mr. PRICE. Well, it's strictly a military rifle and it's patterned after the German Mauser.

Mr. LIEBELER. A bolt-action rifle?

Mr. PRICE.. A bolt action, and the general outline it had--about oh, possibly a six shot clip that set just ahead of the trigger, and I understand it was a 6.5 Italian, but at that time I didn't know. I thought it was a Mauser because there's a friend of mine in Grand Prairie that has an Argentine Mauser that was 7.6 and it looked very familiar--they looked a whole lot alike.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have a chance to look at any of the writing or printing that was stamped on the rifle?

Mr. PRICE. Well, the only thing that I could see on it--I looked for a brand name so I could see approximately where it was made, and the only thing that I could find on it was a serial number.

It is obvious Mr. Price wants to aid the WC as he throws in the mention of an Italian rifle, but we know it was NOT the alleged murder weapon simply because that rifle had “MADE ITALY” and “6.5” stamped on it and Price said the ONLY thing he could find was the serial number.  Also, the rifle Price saw was “sporterized” (remember Warren Caster’s Mauser?) and the alleged murder weapon has NEVER been accused of this.

Mr. LIEBELER. It had been taken off as part of the attempt to sporterize the rifle?

Mr. PRICE. Yes.

Quote off

This line of questioning is again interesting to the overall picture.

Mr. LIEBELER - And do you recall telling them that Oswald was interested in the number of inches that had been cut from the barrel of the gun?

Mr. ALBA - I believe I did; yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you recall what Oswald said, about that?

Mr. ALBA - No; not other than a general discussion of the trajectory and the feet per second, and et cetera, and the general accuracy elimination--I mean elimination of the accuracy of the gun cutting the barrel off.

Mr. LIEBELER - What is the effect of cutting the barrel?

Mr. ALBA - On the accuracy of a rifle; none.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you tell Oswald that?

Mr. LIEBELER - Did he seem surprised?

Mr. ALBA - Not that my memory would--if my memory-would serve me correctly; no.

Why were they so interested in LHO’s knowledge and interest in this? Was it too see if he could have been at the target ranges as claimed?  The next exchange pretty much eliminates the claim LHO would purchase anything like the Mannlicher-Carcano (M-C) to do the deed as claimed.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did he seem to have a fairly good knowledge of a rifle?

Mr. ALBA - He did of the military pieces, the M-1 and the Garand. He was asking questions about the Japanese rifle and the Springfield, the l 3-A, the A-3 Springfield, inquiring questions about those pieces, but he seemed to have a very thorough knowledge of the M-1 and the Garand.

Mr. LIEBELER - You just mentioned two different rifles, or three different rifles that he showed a real familiarity with?

Mr. ALBA - Two.

Mr. LIEBELER - This was the straight M-1 gas-operated rifle that has been used by the military services?

Mr. ALBA - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - And the other was the Springfield?

Mr. ALBA - No, no; the other was the Garand M-1. The Garand M-1 and you have the M-l, carbine. Both are gas-operated.

Mr. LIEBELER - Those are the only two weapons that he show any particular or real familiarity with, is that correct?

Mr. ALBA - That is correct.

LHO showed knowledge of just the M-1 and its CARBINE companion. That is all is according to Alba who discussed weapons with him, so why would he go with a cheap rifle like the M-C that required using a bolt?

It makes no sense like the rest of the WC’s case. This along with many other things shows us that LHO was NOT guilty of this crime in my opinion. What do you think?

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What Was The Interest In This Topic By The WC?
« on: October 18, 2018, 07:58:55 PM »


Offline Tom Scully

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Re: What Was The Interest In This Topic By The WC?
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2018, 02:01:22 AM »

.......
LHO showed knowledge of just the M-1 and its CARBINE companion. That is all is according to Alba who discussed weapons with him, so why would he go with a cheap rifle like the M-C that required using a bolt?

It makes no sense like the rest of the WC’s case. This along with many other things shows us that LHO was NOT guilty of this crime in my opinion. What do you think?


As in your recent Mrs. Penn thread, you rely completely on testimony of witnesses. You present no evidence
suppporting the claims of any witness you present.

You do not support your opinions to a degree resulting in an actual point. You reinforce the anecdote that eye witnesses
are generally unreliable.

Online Rob Caprio

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Re: What Was The Interest In This Topic By The WC?
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2018, 04:11:47 AM »
@ Tom Scully. -- You are on my ignore list. I'm sure this is some form of criticism. The irony of course is that no one has a clue what your posts are about.

For the record  -- this post is a QUESTION. It wasn't meant to prove anything for those who either have trouble reading or misrepresent what they read. It was meant to start a discussion, but I realize that the LNers aren't interested in this for the most part.

Offline John Mytton

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Re: What Was The Interest In This Topic By The WC?
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2018, 05:27:31 AM »

LHO showed knowledge of just the M-1 and its CARBINE companion. That is all is according to Alba who discussed weapons with him, so why would he go with a cheap rifle like the M-C that required using a bolt?

It makes no sense like the rest of the WC’s case.


Well geez Rob it's kinda like this, we'd all like to live in a mansion, drive a Ferrari and/or own the best rifle but unfortunately some of us just gather books or work as a cashier at the supermarket and subsequently we are forced to live within our means.



JohnM
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 07:20:51 AM by John Mytton »

Online Rob Caprio

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Re: What Was The Interest In This Topic By The WC?
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2018, 06:22:29 PM »
Well geez Rob it's kinda like this, we'd all like to live in a mansion, drive a Ferrari and/or own the best rifle but unfortunately some of us just gather books or work as a cashier at the supermarket and subsequently we are forced to live within our means.



JohnM

So you are claiming that LHO would choose a rifle he had NO knowledge of for something as big as the killing of the POTUS? Sure, that makes sense. Can you show with evidence that LHO ever used a bolt-action rifle prior to his alleged use of one on November 22?

Why were the WC so interested in the issue of sporterized rifles and LHO's knowledge of this? Was CE 139 sporterized?

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Re: What Was The Interest In This Topic By The WC?
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2018, 06:22:29 PM »


Offline Mark Valenti

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Re: What Was The Interest In This Topic By The WC?
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2018, 07:05:47 PM »
So you are claiming that LHO would choose a rifle he had NO knowledge of for something as big as the killing of the POTUS? Sure, that makes sense. Can you show with evidence that LHO ever used a bolt-action rifle prior to his alleged use of one on November 22?

Why were the WC so interested in the issue of sporterized rifles and LHO's knowledge of this? Was CE 139 sporterized?

At the time that LHO allegedly purchased the Carcano, he was closer in time to the alleged attempt on the life of General Walker and the alleged desire to gun down Richard Nixon than he was to the alleged shooting of JFK.

So his alleged purchase of the crappy rifle could very well have had nothing to do with the alleged shooting of POTUS.

Online Rob Caprio

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Re: What Was The Interest In This Topic By The WC?
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2018, 09:37:54 PM »
At the time that LHO allegedly purchased the Carcano, he was closer in time to the alleged attempt on the life of General Walker and the alleged desire to gun down Richard Nixon than he was to the alleged shooting of JFK.

So his alleged purchase of the crappy rifle could very well have had nothing to do with the alleged shooting of POTUS.

Okay. Everything else goes though. Why would he select a rifle he was totally unfamiliar with to attempt to kill anyone? Can you show that he had any experience with a bolt-action rifle? Was CE 139 sporterized?

By the way, based on Marina Oswald's totally unsupported claim regarding Nixon LHO would have used a pistol.

Offline Mark Valenti

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Re: What Was The Interest In This Topic By The WC?
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2018, 03:49:38 PM »
Okay. Everything else goes though. Why would he select a rifle he was totally unfamiliar with to attempt to kill anyone? Can you show that he had any experience with a bolt-action rifle? Was CE 139 sporterized?

By the way, based on Marina Oswald's totally unsupported claim regarding Nixon LHO would have used a pistol.

No Rob, I can't show that he had any experience with that rifle.

But what Oswald DID have was a lot of conversations with Adrian Alba, an older man who also had an affinity for weapons - to the degree that he had lots of gun magazines scattered all over his office.

The two of them chatted like old friends about firing, their opinions about various weapons, etc.

Since we don't know the exact content of their conversations, we can only theorize. But it's no great leap to suppose that Oswald may have ordered the Carcano at the suggestion of Alba. Maybe Oswald was showing off, maybe he wanted Alba to respect him, maybe maybe maybe.

See, there are endless numbers of theories as to WHY he may have ordered the Carcano (though there is spotty evidence that he did) that don't necessarily lead to a conspiracy.

And no, there is no "evidence" for any of these theories, no more than there is airtight proof that he didn't order the Carcano.

On the one side there are theories and on the other side there is spotty evidence. That's why we're still debating this fifty plus years later.

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Re: What Was The Interest In This Topic By The WC?
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2018, 03:49:38 PM »


Online Rob Caprio

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Re: What Was The Interest In This Topic By The WC?
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2018, 11:20:00 PM »
No Rob, I can't show that he had any experience with that rifle.

But what Oswald DID have was a lot of conversations with Adrian Alba, an older man who also had an affinity for weapons - to the degree that he had lots of gun magazines scattered all over his office.

The two of them chatted like old friends about firing, their opinions about various weapons, etc.

Since we don't know the exact content of their conversations, we can only theorize. But it's no great leap to suppose that Oswald may have ordered the Carcano at the suggestion of Alba. Maybe Oswald was showing off, maybe he wanted Alba to respect him, maybe maybe maybe.

See, there are endless numbers of theories as to WHY he may have ordered the Carcano (though there is spotty evidence that he did) that don't necessarily lead to a conspiracy.

And no, there is no "evidence" for any of these theories, no more than there is airtight proof that he didn't order the Carcano.

On the one side there are theories and on the other side there is spotty evidence. That's why we're still debating this fifty plus years later.

There is still the matter of the sporterized Mauser Caster purchased,:

Mr. CASTER. I believe it was on Wednesday, November 20, during the noon hour.

Mr. BALL. Whose guns were they?

Mr. CASTER. They were my guns.

Mr. BALL. And what kind of guns were they?

Mr. CASTER. One gun was a Remington, single-shot, .22 rifle, and the other was a .30-06 sporterized Mauser.

...and the rifle seen at the rifle range.

Mr. Liebeler. In other words, this rifle that Oswald had was a sporterized rifle? It had been rebuilt?

Mr. Slack. Just as advertised. I have seen besides the Oswald, I have friends that have those rifles. I wouldn't shoot a toad frog with one of them, because I know that they are just junk.

A sporterized rifle was involved in this case in various ways so I think this is why the WC was trying to find out LHO's knowledge of this type of rifle.


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Re: What Was The Interest In This Topic By The WC?
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2018, 11:20:00 PM »


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