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Author Topic: Quoting Common Sense  (Read 238 times)

Online Benjamin Cole

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Re: Quoting Common Sense
« Reply #7 on: Today at 01:40:26 AM »
DVP:

The testimony of the Connallys has always clashed with the WC narrative.

Connally: I was knocked over, just doubled over by the force of the bullet. It went in my back and came out my chest about 2 inches below and the left of my right nipple. The force of the bullet drove my body over almost double and when I looked, immediately I could see I was just drenched with blood. (1 HSCA 42)

Gov. JBC described himself as immediately incapacitated after he was shot.

The WC narrative is that JBC was struck by the same slug that hit JFK ~Z-221.

But JBC is bolt upright after Z-221, then looks over his right shoulder, eventually makes a near 180-degree in seat (you can see the left profile of JBC's face in the Z-film), begins to turn forward, and appears to be struck and pushed forward ~Z-295.

JBC shows no sign of incapacitating injury until after Z-295. I can well believe being shot though the chest would immediately incapacitate a man. I find it unlikely that JBC, after being shot through the chest, then made a 180-degree turn in his seat to check on JFK.

JBC being shot at Z-295 also lines up with the "bang...bang-bang" cadence described by so many witnesses.

I have reasonable doubts a lone gunsel, armed with a single shot per bolt action rifle, could perp the JFKA as revealed in the Z-film.

Caveat emptor, and draw your own conclusions.






Online Tom Scully

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Re: Quoting Common Sense
« Reply #8 on: Today at 01:40:33 AM »
The odds of Oswald being selected to be the triggerman for the JFKA seem quite remote for reason already stated. To suggest that he was chosen to be the patsy and that he would have been such a cooperative patsy is even more far fetched. Why would Oswald have been willing to smuggle his rifle into work. I think he could put 2 and 2 together to figure out what a bad idea that would be. If one wants to believe that the plotters stole Oswald's rifle, how did they get Oswald to bring a long brown paper bag into work. Are we to believe that the bag found next to the sniper's nest with Oswald's prints on it just happened to be long enough to hold the disassembled rifle. Why were there no curtain rods in the empty paper bag found by the sniper's nest.

What if Oswald had decided to join the rest of the TSBD employees on the front steps of the TSBD. According to Ralph Cinque, that's what he did. Suppose he had returned to work and answered the roll call. Even if they found his rifle, he would have had employees ready to tell the police, "Lee was with us when the shots were fired".

If Oswald was a patsy, he had to be the most cooperative patsy ever selected to take the fall for a crime committed by somebody else. He did everything imaginable that day to make himself look guilty. This is where the CTs will tell us his "handlers" made him do all those things that incriminated him which is laughable. It reminds me of Flip Wilson's Geraldine character saying, "The devil made me do it".

If there is nothing to opinions that at the very least there was a cover up implicating folks in high places, (in the conspiracy to cover up, not necessarily in the JFKA itself...)
Why do we have the evidence of this 1977 letter and why was the FBI claiming it was unable to identify a "Mr. Beamis", described in that 1977 as the owner of a string of hotels, when it is obvious he was George HW Bush's lifelong,best friend?

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9963#relPageId=175


https://www.google.com/books...
Circa 1974 :


Henry Hurt had a job teaching school in the town Bush and Bemiss summered in, all of their lives,
Kennebunkport. Hurt was about to marry Bemiss's cousin....

« Last Edit: Today at 01:50:16 AM by Tom Scully »

Online David Von Pein

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Re: Quoting Common Sense
« Reply #9 on: Today at 02:14:56 AM »

"Several factors make it clear that Kennedy and Connally WERE struck by the same bullet. There's absolutely no evidence of the existence of any separate bullet hitting Connally." -- Vincent Bugliosi; 1986
« Last Edit: Today at 02:15:35 AM by David Von Pein »

Offline Lance Payette

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Re: Quoting Common Sense
« Reply #10 on: Today at 12:21:40 PM »
Here is my Common Sense take on the issue.

The single best argument against Oswald being part of a conspiracy is that he got his job at the TSBD well before anyone knew a presidential motorcade would be going right past that building in late November. Whether one postulates Oswald was a shooter as part of a conspiracy or patsy chosen to take the fall, the plotters couldn't have known that the job at the TSBD would give Oswald a the perfect perch to shoot JFK from. Even if they knew JFK was coming to Dallas, they would have to have specific knowledge that there would be a motorcade and that it would pass directly in front of the TSBD.

The CTs might counter that the conspirators just took advantage of the situation when they discovered their shooter/patsy was at a workplace overlooking the parade route. The question then becomes, why would they have selected Oswald for either role if they didn't know in advance of the golden opportunity his employment at the TSBD would present. Why would these conspirators select an average USMC marksman to do the biggest contract killing in American history? It makes no sense. It is also a bit far-fetched to think they had already contracted with Oswald to do the shooting and just got lucky when the motorcade route was announced. What are the odds of that happening.

Then the CTs might ask, didn't Oswald just get lucky when he learned of the motorcade route. Yes he did, and if Oswald was the only mentally unbalanced person in the country with a rifle and a propensity to commit such a heinous act, it would have been a remarkably bad piece of luck. But the fact is there might have been dozens of such people in the country, maybe hundreds, who would have done what Oswald did if given the opportunity. Given the fact we had a President who traveled all over the country and had a fondness for riding in slow moving motorcades in an open top car, it's not at all surprising that he eventually might cross paths with one of them. The key word here is "opportunity". This was a crime of opportunity. Oswald won the assassin's lottery when JFK's motorcade was routed right past his workplace and he took full advantage. Maybe if another site for the luncheon had been selected we would have never heard of Lee Harvey Oswald. Maybe it would have been another assassin in another city at another time who was dealt such an opportunity or maybe it would never have happened at all. Life can be that random. Who could have guessed that the choice for the site of the luncheon would have such devastating consequences, but that is what happened.

I often challenge CT arguments on the basis “That simply makes no sense.” Honesty and my own nagging doubts about the LN scenario compel me to acknowledge three CT scenarios at which this challenge can’t be leveled: (1) Oswald as a dupe in a Mafia plot; (2) Oswald as a dupe in an anti-Castro plot; and (3) Oswald as a willing participant in a pro-Castro plot. To make sense, I believe all three would have to be tight, minimalist conspiracies, and number (3) would have to involve pro-Castro types little more sophisticated than Oswald himself (i.e., nothing official).

For any of these, Oswald with his pro-Castro high profile could have been on the radar screen long before the JFKA. He would have been on the radar screen for numbers (1) and (2) because he would have been an almost too-good-to-be-true patsy. He would have been on the radar screen for (3) because he was an in-your-face Castro supporter (and god knows what wild things he may have said in New Orleans or Mexico City). To be on the radar screen would not have required anyone to know in advance that he would be working in the TSBD or the exact motorcade route.

JFK’s trip to Dallas was known even before Oswald went to Mexico City. There were surely umpteen locations along the route from which the JFKA could have been carried out. I think there is a tendency to reason backwards: Oswald was in fact working in the TSBD, the sixth floor provided an excellent perch, the limousine slowed to a crawl when it turned onto Elm, and the JFKA was in fact highly successful – ergo, this must have been “the plan” from the get-go. But this is not true at all. How do we account for Oswald pretty clearly scouting the Allright Parking Garage just a week before the JFKA?

I don’t say that any of the three CT scenarios I posit is anywhere near as likely as the LN scenario. To tilt the scales would require either or both of (1) really compelling evidence that there was such a plot and that it involved Oswald and/or (2) really compelling evidence that the LN scenario – probably meaning the SBT – is not a plausible explanation for what occurred in Dealey Plaza.

I do say, however, that none of the scenarios is nonsensical or subject to the charge “That simply makes no sense.” If we’re going to be intellectually honest and accuse CTers of making no sense when that charge fits, I think we have to be careful to distinguish between genuine “common sense” and mere “LN salesmanship.”

One bit of common sense that I think is very difficult for any CT scenario to overcome is: In any conspiracy, it is hard to imagine a gunman hitching a ride with a coworker to retrieve his disassembled $20 rifle the evening before the assassination. That's a toughie, hence the CT propensity to say "That's not what happened."

Offline Lance Payette

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Re: Quoting Common Sense
« Reply #11 on: Today at 12:26:48 PM »
"Several factors make it clear that Kennedy and Connally WERE struck by the same bullet. There's absolutely no evidence of the existence of any separate bullet hitting Connally." -- Vincent Bugliosi; 1986

I happen to be rereading Gerald Knight’s CT-oriented but excellent Breach of Trust: How the Warren Commission Failed the Nation and Why. Knight was a respected professor of history. He makes the point that the FBI’s working hypothesis all along, which was shared by the Secret Service, was that JFK had been hit by two bullets and JBC by a third. This was the FBI’s final report that was expected by everyone concerned to serve as the guide for the Warren Commission and the basis for what it was “expected” to conclude. The SBT was really prompted by the WC’s need to account for the wound to Tague, which had been conveniently omitted from the FBI report. I am no great student of the SBT and would not be qualified to speak about the medical and ballistic aspects even if I were, but I have read enough (lots) to regard it as problematical in several regards. There seems to be a tendency on the part of LN advocates to keep saying things like “There is no doubt!” as though saying this often and loudly made it true. From my informed layman’s perspective, I think there is a fair amount of legitimate doubt. As I’ve said previously, I wish there could be a fresh look by world-class experts from other countries who know and care nothing about JFK or the JFKA and thus have no preconceived notions or agenda. Maybe we can get Elon Musk to work on this!

(Are we now supposed to be posting "real us" avatars like the Ed Forum? I suppose I can find one that doesn't make me look girlishly cute. Nope, couldn't do it - I'm cute in all of them. Admittedly, that was ten years ago, when I was still using Just for Men. I did have an amusing anecdote about that: My boss, the County Attorney, was a big blob of a guy with very short hair who one day used Just for Men. Literally EVERYONE commented on it. "Did you see Mel? Look at Mel!" So I, the Chief Deputy, used it and expected at least some reaction. I met my paralegal Vicki as I was going up the stairs and she was coming down. "Well?" I asked. "What?" she asked as though she had no clue. I pointed at my hair. "What?" she asked again, slightly exasperated. "I USED THAT STUFF!" "No one cares," she said, as she continued on her way.)
« Last Edit: Today at 12:43:57 PM by Lance Payette »

Online John Corbett

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Re: Quoting Common Sense
« Reply #12 on: Today at 12:42:31 PM »

JFK’s trip to Dallas was known even before Oswald went to Mexico City. There were surely umpteen locations along the route from which the JFKA could have been carried out. I think there is a tendency to reason backwards: Oswald was in fact working in the TSBD, the sixth floor provided an excellent perch, the limousine slowed to a crawl when it turned onto Elm, and the JFKA was in fact highly successful – ergo, this must have been “the plan” from the get-go. But this is not true at all. How do we account for Oswald pretty clearly scouting the Allright Parking Garage just a week before the JFKA?


What evidence is there that Oswald was "pretty clearly scouting the Allright Parking Garage just a week before the JFKA.".

Online John Corbett

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Re: Quoting Common Sense
« Reply #13 on: Today at 12:54:17 PM »
DVP:

The testimony of the Connallys has always clashed with the WC narrative.

Connally: I was knocked over, just doubled over by the force of the bullet. It went in my back and came out my chest about 2 inches below and the left of my right nipple. The force of the bullet drove my body over almost double and when I looked, immediately I could see I was just drenched with blood. (1 HSCA 42)

Gov. JBC described himself as immediately incapacitated after he was shot.

The WC narrative is that JBC was struck by the same slug that hit JFK ~Z-221.

But JBC is bolt upright after Z-221, then looks over his right shoulder, eventually makes a near 180-degree in seat (you can see the left profile of JBC's face in the Z-film), begins to turn forward, and appears to be struck and pushed forward ~Z-295.

JBC shows no sign of incapacitating injury until after Z-295. I can well believe being shot though the chest would immediately incapacitate a man. I find it unlikely that JBC, after being shot through the chest, then made a 180-degree turn in his seat to check on JFK.

JBC being shot at Z-295 also lines up with the "bang...bang-bang" cadence described by so many witnesses.

I have reasonable doubts a lone gunsel, armed with a single shot per bolt action rifle, could perp the JFKA as revealed in the Z-film.

Caveat emptor, and draw your own conclusions.

Why do you have to make up crap. JBC never said he was incapacitated by the shot that hit him. That's ludicrous. No wonder you come up with such goofy ideas. You lie to yourself about the facts.