What about that dent?

[Michael T. Griffith]

ME: Were any of the shells that were found in the "Sniper's Nest" on 11/22/63 dented? If so, does it present a problem for the official conclusion of the Warren Commission?

Thought for 23s

GROK: Yes, one of the three spent cartridge cases (shells) found in the "sniper's nest" on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository had a dent. The three cases recovered by Dallas police on November 22, 1963, were designated as Warren Commission Exhibits (CE) 543, 544, and 545. CE 543 had a noticeable inward dent on the mouth (the open lip where the bullet had been seated).

educationforum.ipbhost.com +1

This dent has been documented in photographs taken at the scene (and later in Commission exhibits) and was examined by the FBI and, later, the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) Firearms Panel. The other two cases (CE 544 and CE 545) were undamaged in this way.

aarclibrary.org

No, this does not present a problem for the Warren Commission's official conclusion (that Lee Harvey Oswald fired three shots from a 6.5 mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle in the sniper's nest, with the three cartridge cases ejected from that rifle). The Warren Commission itself relied on FBI ballistic analysis showing that all three cases had been fired in Oswald's rifle (CE 139), based on matching firing-pin impressions, extractor marks, and bolt-face marks.

archives.gov

The dent on CE 543 prompted criticism from some researchers, who argued it was so severe that the case could not have held a live bullet beforehand (implying it could not have been one of the three shots fired during the assassination, or that the case was planted or previously damaged).

jfk.boards.net +1

However, the HSCA Firearms Panel (a team of independent firearms experts) directly addressed this in 1977–1978.

They concluded:

The dent on the mouth of CE 543 was produced during ejection from the rifle (specifically, from rapid operation of the bolt/ejector mechanism), not before firing or from manufacturing/loading.

They duplicated an identical dent in test firings with Oswald’s rifle (one of four test cases showed a comparable dent when the bolt was worked quickly).
Microscopic comparison confirmed that all three cases (including the dented CE 543) were fired in the CE 139 rifle, with no evidence of multiple chamberings or prior firings.

aarclibrary.org +1

The panel explicitly rejected the idea that the dent would have prevented the case from being fired in the rifle (or any rifle).

ronaldjlilek.medium.com

The Warren Commission (1964) did not dwell on the dent as an issue—the FBI’s initial matching of the cases to the rifle was sufficient for their conclusion of three shots from the sniper’s nest. The later HSCA analysis reinforced this by resolving the dent question through direct experimentation. While some conspiracy-oriented analyses continue to dispute the replication or point to minor chain-of-custody details (e.g., CE 543 was turned over to the FBI a few days later than the others), the official forensic examinations found the dent fully consistent with the three-shot scenario.

documents3.theblackvault.com

In short, the dent is real and well-documented, but it has been explained as post-firing ejection damage and does not contradict (or undermine) the Warren Commission’s ballistics findings or lone-gunman conclusion.

It is sad, and really inexcusable, to see anyone repeating these long-since debunked claims. The dented shell, CE 543, is hard evidence of conspiracy because the shell could not have been used to fire a bullet during the assassination.

No, the HSCA firearms experts did not duplicate the CE 543 dent in any of their test shells. Anyone can look at the shells they produced and see that they are not nearly as dented as CE 543. The same goes for Chad Zimmerman's supposed duplication of the dent in CE 543.

A few other important facts:

-- CE 543 has three sets of marks on the base that are not found on the two other shells and that were not made on any of the numerous shells that were ejected from the alleged murder weapon during firing tests.

-- CE 543 does not have the characteristic chambering impression along the side exhibited by the other cartridges we know to have been seated in the chamber of the alleged murder weapon, i.e.,, CE 544 and CE 545, and also CE 141 (the live round found in the chamber of the rifle. The impression on CE 141 is in the same but is not as pronounced as on CEs 544 and 545, almost certainly due to the fact that it was not fired.

-- CE 543 could not have been marked by the alleged murder weapon’s magazine follower during the assassination because there was a live round left in the rifle’s chamber and only the last shell in the clip is marked by the magazine follower. This fact alone discredits the HSCA firearms experts' claims about the dented shell, as research scientist Dr. Don Thomas has explained:

Furthermore, according to the FBI experts, the casing had been marked by the magazine follower. This fact is especially relevant because only the last cartridge in the clip is marked by the magazine follower, and inasmuch as the Oswald rifle still had one live round in the chamber, CE 543 could not have been marked by the magazine follower as an operation of the rifle during the assassination. The failure of the HSCA Firearms Panel to disclose or discuss the discrepancy between their conclusion and the FBI findings forces the conclusion that the Firearms Panel analysis of this problem was less than forthright and certainly less than thorough. (Hear No Evil: Politics, Science, and the Forensic Evidence in the Kennedy Assassination, New York: Skyhorse Publishing, 2010, p. 141)

I discuss the dented shell at length in my book A Comforting Lie: They Myth That a Lone Gunman Killed President Kennedy. A condensed version of that discussion is available on my website:

The Dented Bullet Shell: Hard Evidence of Conspiracy in the JFK Assassination
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ihue8a0GmN_Ptl38bPjpu1F99nqU0Z6f/view

[Lance Payette]

MTG: "Because if that cartridge case could not have been used to fire a bullet during the assassination, then there must have been more than one gunman."

Dented shell: Dry firing round in the chamber of the disassembled M-C in Ruth Paine's garage. JFKA: Two shots. Case closed. You're welcome.

Helpful freebie advice: I notice MTG's paper says "@ All Rights Reserved." Obviously "@" is incorrect and looks goofy. The copyright symbol may be found on your keyboard by holding the Alt key and typing 0169 on the numeric keyboard, to wit:

© 2022 Michael T. Griffith. All rights reserved.

There, now you don't look like a goofball. Actually, none of that is necessary. Copyright protection is automatic. You do need to register the copyright to sue for infringement, but you can do that just before you sue and there is little risk of anyone even wanting to infringe your work anyway. I did some copyright and trademark work when I was an in-house attorney at Xerox. Anyone want to hear about the Berne Convention?

[John Corbett]

MTG: "Because if that cartridge case could not have been used to fire a bullet during the assassination, then there must have been more than one gunman."

Dented shell: Dry firing round in the chamber of the disassembled M-C in Ruth Paine's garage. JFKA: Two shots. Case closed. You're welcome.

Helpful freebie advice: I notice MTG's paper says "@ All Rights Reserved." Obviously "@" is incorrect and looks goofy. The copyright symbol may be found on your keyboard by holding the Alt key and typing 0169 on the numeric keyboard, to wit:

© 2022 Michael T. Griffith. All rights reserved.

There, now you don't look like a goofball. Actually, none of that is necessary. Copyright protection is automatic. You do need to register the copyright to sue for infringement, but you can do that just before you sue and there is little risk of anyone even wanting to infringe your work anyway. I did some copyright and trademark work when I was an in-house attorney at Xerox. Anyone want to hear about the Berne Convention?

A two shot scenario is akin to the likelihood Oswald had accomplices, theoretcially possible but highly unlikely.