The smell of gunpowder

[Benjamin Cole]

Obviously, there are some brands of ammo that smoke (see below).

In addition, "hand-loading" of .38 rounds was popular in the 1960s and now.

A hand-loaded .38 round can use who knows what kind of gunpowder. A smoky brand may have been chosen, as the GK shot was intended as a diversion.

I doubt the railroad workers, and Dallas Police officer and war vet Joe Smith, and many others, all imagined they saw and smelled smoke in the GK area, concurrently.

Why there, and not some other location?

---30---

We can put to rest the all ammo does not smoke fiction:

Ammo known for producing significant smoke is generally budget-friendly range ammunition or specialized types like tracers. Users frequently report that certain brands are "dirty," meaning they burn older or less efficient powder mixtures that produce more residue and smoke.
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Here are the brands and types of ammo often cited for being smoky:
Tula / Wolf (Steel Case): These Russian brands are notorious for being both dirty and smoky.
Armscor: Often reported as dirty, producing extra smoke and residue.
Remington UMC/Green Box: Sometimes cited as having a distinct smell and producing more smoke compared to cleaner options.
Winchester White Box (WWB): While a staple for bulk shooting, it is frequently cited for being smokier and dirtier than competition brands.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

AI Overview
Yes, an AR-15 (likely an early Colt Model 601 or 602) fired 6 times in 1963 would produce a distinct and likely strong, pungent, or acrid odor to anyone nearby.
While modern, high-quality ammunition is relatively clean, several factors in 1963 would make the scent intense.
Why It Would Smell Strongly in 1963
Lubricant Burn-off: Early AR-15s were often heavily treated with packing grease and, when in use, required generous lubrication (like LSA). Firing 6 rounds would heat the rifle, burning off this oil and grease, which creates a very pungent, hot oil smell.
Acrid Gunpowder: Early .223 ammunition utilized specific nitrocellulose propellants that produce a sharp, acrid odor (sometimes described as sulfurous) when burning.
Direct Impingement System: Because the AR-15 directs gases back into the action/bolt carrier group, that burnt powder smell and oil vapors are released near the shooter's face/upper body, making the smell more noticeable than in traditional rifles.
Factory Residue/Grease: New rifles in that era often arrived with thick, pasty protective grease designed for long-term storage, which "smokes" or smells intensely when first fired.

Contextual Factors
Ammonia Smell: Some early or slightly degraded ammunition from that era might produce a strong ammonia scent, especially if moisture was present in the powder, which can happen if the gun is fired shortly after removal from storage.
The "Burning Oil" Factor: If the weapon was heavily lubricated with CLP or LSA (common for military testing), the smell would be quite pungent, similar to "burnt oil + burning engine paint" or a "machine shop".

In summary, 6 shots of early 1960s ammo would be enough to create a distinct, pungent aroma that would linger in the immediate area.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

AI Overview
No, six spent AR-15 shell casings in your pocket would likely not produce a "strong stink" in a hospital setting, though they do have a faint, distinct odor.

Scent Profile: Fired brass typically smells like burnt matches, fireworks, or sulfur due to the combustion of gunpowder. Some users also describe a metallic or acrid, "pool-like" ammonia smell.
Potency and Dissipation: While the smell is sharp immediately after firing, it dissipates quickly as the casings cool. In a large, ventilated area like a hospital, the scent from just six small casings would likely be undetectable to others unless they were extremely close to your pocket.
Persistence on Person: It is more likely that a person would smell like gunpowder from residue on their skin or clothing (especially sleeves and face) than from the casings themselves.
Security & Policy: While the smell may not be strong, carrying spent casings in a hospital can be problematic. Many facilities have strict Security and Visitor Policies regarding items that resemble ammunition or weapons.

If you are traveling with them, the TSA Shell Casing Guidelines allow empty casings in carry-on bags as long as the primer is discharged and the projectile is removed, but hospital security protocols may be more restrictive.

[John Mytton]

.........and smelled smoke in the GK area, concurrently.

We can put to rest the all ammo does not smoke fiction:

I don't think anybody ever suggested that ammo doesn't smoke because by definition to fire a bullet requires a chemical reaction, gunpowder needs to be ignited to propel the bullet out of the gun but as seen in my previous post the amount of smoky discharge isn't much.

But here we are talking about at most a single shot that was fired in quite a strong breeze as illustrated by the image you posted of Hill's and Moorman's dresses. Do you honestly think that in these conditions that gunpowder from a single shot would still be lingering in the vicinity of the area behind the grassy knoll or would it be quickly dispersed into relatively insignificant amounts up Elm street?

JohnM

[Benjamin Cole]

JM--

I can't prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt.

I lean towards believing that Dallas PD officer Joe Smith, war vet, smelled gunsmoke near the GK, about where Sam Holland other railroad workers said they saw a puff of smoke, in the immediate aftermath of the JFKA.

Of course, they were not the only ones who saw smoke and smelled gunsmoke (gunsmoke gives off a particular scent).

It is a fact a snub-nose .38, especially if freshly oiled, would give off a lot of noise and smoke, especially with certain cheap ammos or hand-packed ammo. The snub-nose .38 was the default concealed weapon of the day.

It is notable that DPD Smith and Dallas Sheriff Seymour Weitzman both encountered a man flashing an (apparently) fake Secret Service credential near the GK, in the aftermath of the JFKA.

That's my take.

I cannot prove my case, but that is the way I lean.

Caveat emptor, and draw your own conclusions.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

JM--

I can't prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt.

I lean towards believing that Dallas PD officer Joe Smith, war vet, smelled gunsmoke near the GK, about where Sam Holland other railroad workers said they saw a puff of smoke, in the immediate aftermath of the JFKA.

Of course, they were not the only ones who saw smoke and smelled gunsmoke (gunsmoke gives off a particular scent).

It is a fact a snub-nose .38, especially if freshly oiled, would give off a lot of noise and smoke, especially with certain cheap ammos or hand-packed ammo. The snub-nose .38 was the default concealed weapon of the day.

It is notable that DPD Smith and Dallas Sheriff Seymour Weitzman both encountered a man flashing an (apparently) fake Secret Service credential near the GK, in the aftermath of the JFKA.

That's my take.

I cannot prove my case, but that is the way I lean.

Caveat emptor, and draw your own conclusions.

What about gunsmoke smelt by people on the triple underpass.
What about gunsmoke smelt at the other underpasses & overpasses.
And at the hospital.

[Benjamin Cole]

MR-

I cannot explain every witness reaction everywhere in DP 11.22.

IMHO, there is a concentration of credible witnesses near the GK who saw and smelled gunsmoke, in the immediate aftermath of the JFKA.

I contend that gunsmoke did not come from LHO's M-C carbine, as he was upwind.

I am aware of your explanation of the JFKA, but we are on different pages on this one.

However, this is a forum where different views are presented, and I welcome such a platform for all (excluding hate speech promoters).