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Author Topic: Why did Oswald go to the movies?  (Read 142495 times)

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #872 on: September 22, 2018, 02:28:34 AM »
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So you can't tell me. Maybe because it never happened?

Instead of your usual jumping to conclusions that only exist in your own mind, how about you just ask him, he's got nothing to hide.

Btw why didn't you ever debate Paul May, what are you scared of?

JohnM

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Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #872 on: September 22, 2018, 02:28:34 AM »


Online Mitch Todd

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Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #873 on: September 22, 2018, 07:39:18 AM »
Big deal. Show using supporting evidence how he got to the P.O. Then explain how he received a money order that wasn't due to be in circulation for a year or more.
Once the signature is is shown to be Oswald's, Oswald's possession of the MO is established. "How he got to the P.O." then becomes nothing more than a half-@$$3d exercise in goal-post manipulation by sore losers. As to your claim that this particular MO wasn't supposed to be in circulation, you need to explain what the hell you're talking about. 

Online Mitch Todd

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Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #874 on: September 22, 2018, 10:05:55 AM »
Police cars are approaching Brewer's store from the East, sirens blazing. A somewhat disheveled That Man (again, hereafter TM)  tucks into the vestibule at the store's entrance. He doesn't enter, but just stands there just outside the door and keeps his back turned to the street. Brewer notices that TM is staring (as you like to point out), but he's not staring at the merchandise in the store or the display cases on either side of the vestibule.
How would Brewer know what the man was looking at?
By watching him. A good, old-school salesman is adept at observing what you're paying attention to. That's out of necessity. BTW, it's how you can tell a professional from a dork. A dork will just stand there asking if "you need any help?" A pro will notice what catches your interest, then walk up and open a conversation on the item that's caught your attention.

The police cars make a U-turn at Zang, half a block short of reaching the shoe store, and head back to the East. TM looks over his shoulder, then proceeds in a Westerly direction, away from where the police cars came from.
"Avoiding the police" is just injecting a biased assumption based on what you already believe.  Maybe he was looking over his shoulder to avoid knocking down another pedestrian who might be walking by.  If the police cars turned around at Zang, why would he need to look for police cars?
Avoiding the police is what Brewer thought TM was doing, or didn't you notice? And when you get down to it, this is all about what JC Brewer thought, not what I think, nor whatever sphincter-clenching notion you'd like to believe today. 

TM continues on until he reaches the Texas Theatre, when Brewer sees TM disappear into the recess at the front of the theater. Brewer walks to the theater, doesn't see the guy reappear, and notices TM isn't in front of the theater when Brewer gets there.
You forgot the part where he went back to the shoe store first.
Brewer goes from standing on the sidewalk in front of his store to walking to the doors and finding them locked, then heading to the the theater. That took all of 5-10 seconds. Had That Man walked back out onto the sidewalk, he wouldn't have been able to go far at all before Brewer turned cleared the vestibule and headed West. Brewer would have seen him. Oh, and did I mention that Brewer actually saw That Man in the theater when they turned the lights up?

Brewer realizes that TM had to have entered the theater, and asks the ticket clerk whether she'd sold TM a ticket. He gets a negative response; the guy snuck in.
No, she said she wasn't sure whether he did or not.
This is what she said:
  In her 12/4/63 affidavit: "I told him no, I didn't"
  In her WC testimony: "I said, 'No; by golly, he didn't'"

What Brewer said:
  In his 12/4/63 affidavit: "she replied that she did not think so"
  In his WC testimony: "she said no, she hadn't"
  To Ian Griggs: "she said no, she hadn't"

To get from that collection of statements to "she said she wasn't sure whether he did or not," you have to pretend most of them don't exist, then take the last remaining one and strip the negative connotation completely out of it. I'm sure that was all just an accident.

the guy snuck in. You might be the only sucker alive who couldn't see that as suspicious and evasive behavior.
Be honest -- you consider it suspicious behavior because you already believe it was Oswald and he was avoiding the police.
Like I said, the question is whether Brewer thought that it was suspicious behavior. He certainly seems to have thought so. And, on any other day, he might not have given That Man another thought. But November 22, 1963 just wasn't any other day in Oak Cliff. I wouldn't be surprised to find a lot of other people calling the DPD that day for things that they otherwise wouldn't have given a second thought to. In Brewer's case, he turned out to be the one guy who really was onto something. And yes, I can see why Brewer decided the That Man was behaving suspiciously.

He was arrested after he struck a policeman and pulled a gun.  Let me guess: you don't consider that suspicious behavior, either.
Actually I consider that a false statement.  McDonald didn't say he pulled a gun.  Besides, he was arrested for murder, not for striking a policeman or pulling a gun.

McDonald did indeed say Oswald pulled a gun:

"Mr. BALL - Which fist did he hit you with?
Mr. McDONALD - His left fist.
Mr. BALL - What happened then?
Mr. McDONALD - Well, whenever he knocked my hat off, any normal reaction was for me to go at him with this hand.
Mr. BALL - Right hand?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes. I went at him with this hand, and I believe I struck him on the face, but I don't know where. And with my hand, that was on his hand over the pistol.
Mr. BALL - Did you feel the pistol?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Which hand was--was his right hand or his left hand on the pistol?
Mr. McDONALD - His right hand was on the pistol.
Mr. BALL - And which of your hands?
Mr. McDONALD - My left hand, at this point.
Mr. BALL - And had he withdrawn the pistol
Mr. McDONALD - He was drawing it as I put my hand.
Mr. BALL - From his waist?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir.


Brewer, John Gibson, and George Applin all saw a pistol in Oswald's hand during the melee with the cops. How did it get there if he didn't draw it himself? I mean, did a feral revolver that lived in the alley charge into the theater through the open back door then lunge at McDonald's throat before Oswald bravely saved the day by grabbing the rabies-crazed firearm to protect McDonald from it's venomous bite?

The criminal trespass thing would in itself have created probable cause to arrest and search Oswald once Brewer pointed him out.
No, actually it would not have been.  They had no probable cause for criminal trespass either.  And they tried to search him before they arrested him.  No go.
He entered a theater without buying a ticket and sat down in the auditorium. That would most likely constitute criminal trespass.

And the cops didn't even need a warrant or probable cause to stop and frisk you. Remember the NYPD's "stop and frisk" program?

Here's some background from people with an actual legal background:
https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/when-can-the-police-stop-and-frisk-you-on-the-street 

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Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #874 on: September 22, 2018, 10:05:55 AM »


Online Mitch Todd

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Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #875 on: September 22, 2018, 10:22:33 AM »
So who is huffing?

I was hinting at this stub, as per Informant Holmes:

Mr. HOLMES. .........So then I passed the information to the men who were looking for this money order stub to show which would designate, which would show the number of the money order, and that is the only way you could find one..........

But great fun to see Mytton cut in front of you displaying the money order showing amount and date Holmes was NOT sent looking for.

M&Ms, what a pair!
You mean the stub the USPS keeps for its records, not the receipt part. Exactly why would that particular stub be important? And how would that stub invalidate Oswald's signature?

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #876 on: September 22, 2018, 10:52:58 AM »
Brewer said the balcony was empty, therefore his estimated 15-20 were all downstairs. His estimate included the empty balcony.

So....the Commission was lying, again:

"About six or seven people were seated on the theatre's main floor and an equal number in the balcony."

Not that you're desperate for attention, Tom. To a 24/7/365/CTerGetALife, I suppose having more pressing matters to attend to away from this forum is considered 'fading' by you lot...

Considering your resent posting history I doubt you have much else to do.

Brewer said he and Burroughs could not see anyone upstairs, as it was too dark.

I'm only posting 4 times per day.

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Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #876 on: September 22, 2018, 10:52:58 AM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #877 on: September 22, 2018, 11:50:51 AM »
So now you're reverting to the WC on the balcony thing....LOL

Your cunning shoe salesman told Griggs how they circumvented that problem, remember?

Did Brewer tell the truth to the WC or to Griggs?

Both it seems.

If I remember the Griggs thing correctly, Brewer said he went up with Burroughs a second time and did the screen-as-backlight thing and saw no heads. Ask Brewer why he didn't mention that in testimony. Was he asked for more details regarding the upstairs?

Offline Howard Gee

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Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #878 on: September 22, 2018, 11:58:15 AM »
So now you're reverting to the WC on the balcony thing....LOL

Your cunning shoe salesman told Griggs how they circumvented that problem, remember?

Did Brewer tell the truth to the WC or to Griggs?

Imagine how 'cunning' Brewer would have to be if his story regarding trailing Saint Patsy to the TT and telling Postal to call the cops wasn't true.

How do the ConspiraClowns explain Brewer knowing Saint Patsy was in the theater ?

Brewer would have to be more than cunning, he'd have to be clairvoyant !

Brewer Hero.  ConspiraClowns Zero.

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Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #878 on: September 22, 2018, 11:58:15 AM »


Offline Howard Gee

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Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #879 on: September 22, 2018, 12:12:24 PM »
The ConspiraClowns find it suspicious that Brewer was in his shoestore with 2 'IBM men' (so sinister !) listening to the radio about the assassination, but don't find it suspicious at all that Saint Patsy immediately left the scene of the assassination to go grab his pistol and catch a couple of movies.