Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Author Topic: Why did Oswald go to the movies?  (Read 65905 times)

Online Colin Crow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1141
Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #60 on: March 22, 2018, 04:29:47 AM »
The bag was found in the sniper's nest with Oswald's prints on it. It was long enough for Oswald to carry his rifle in. Linnie Mae's original estimate of its length was about three feet.  You cannot get around those facts no matter how hard you try. Frazier admitted that he never paid any attention to the bag.  He has a record of being unobservant and of underestimating the length of objects.   Linnie Mae's original estimate is almost dead on.

A bag was recovered at some time after the rifle was discovered, somewhere near the SE corner of the 6th floor on the afternoon of the assassination by someone. Det Studebaker claimed he fingerprinted the bag and found a partial print and placed tape over it. It was removed from the building by Det. Montgomery around 3pm and placed into evidence at DPD. It was sent to the FBI labs via Vincent Drain around midnight. The labs found no tape but developed a separate  finger and palm print using silver nitrate and identified them to be Oswalds. Linnie May Randle was interviewed by the FBI, who claimed she estimated the length to be around 3 feet. She later testified that the package was close to the length consistently estimated by her brother.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #60 on: March 22, 2018, 04:29:47 AM »

Online Bill Chapman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2740
Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #61 on: March 22, 2018, 04:45:38 AM »
By whom?

Studebaker didn't find any prints on CE 142. The prints were found outside of the TSBD in the possession of the FBI. Does that mean Lee constructed CE 142?


was about three feet. 


Please - I don't know whether you are joking or trying to yank my chain Tim. LMR who was behind a window cleaning the dishes and took a quick glance at Lee now made the most accurate guesstimate yet fails to recognize it that evening nor could construct one of the correct size? Spare me Tim. That's equivalent to Jack Dougherty failing to see the 38 inch paper bag because he was looking at the corner of his eye.

Frazier admitted that he never paid any attention to the bag

and one thing that destroys ALL of your arguments was that BWF made a direct observation of how Lee carried the paper bag  from only a few feet away. We BOTH know what he said and you have seen my thread.

It never ceases to amaze me Tim, how you attribute super powers to the weakest of witnesses. Hold on - YES I do know why.

CE 142 was never in Lee's possession that morning - we have LMR, BWF and JED to tell us that Tim.

Read BWF's testimony again - you will be left with no doubt what he observed. If you don't believe it take it up with BWF.

He was the man who drove the assassin to work FFS. He would face the death penalty if convicted. Duh.

Offline Tim Nickerson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1427
Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #62 on: March 22, 2018, 04:54:39 AM »
By whom?

Studebaker didn't find any prints on CE 142. The prints were found outside of the TSBD in the possession of the FBI. Does that mean Lee constructed CE 142?


was about three feet. 


Please - I don't know whether you are joking or trying to yank my chain Tim. LMR who was behind a window cleaning the dishes and took a quick glance at Lee now made the most accurate guesstimate yet fails to recognize it that evening nor could construct one of the correct size? Spare me Tim. That's equivalent to Jack Dougherty failing to see the 38 inch paper bag because he was looking at the corner of his eye.

Frazier admitted that he never paid any attention to the bag

and one thing that destroys ALL of your arguments was that BWF made a direct observation of how Lee carried the paper bag  from only a few feet away. We BOTH know what he said and you have seen my thread.

It never ceases to amaze me Tim, how you attribute super powers to the weakest of witnesses. Hold on - YES I do know why.

CE 142 was never in Lee's possession that morning - we have LMR, BWF and JED to tell us that Tim.

Read BWF's testimony again - you will be left with no doubt what he observed. If you don't believe it take it up with BWF.

Oswald's prints were on the bag. That means that he handled the bag. No prints of the other employees of the TSBD were found on the bag. Oswald's rifle, broken down, would fit inside of that bag. It was found it the sniper's nest near the shell casings that had been fired in Oswald's rifle. Linnie Mae's description of the bag she saw matched with that bag.  Frazier admitted that Oswald could have carried the bag in such a way that it's full length would not have been viewable to him. If you have a problem with that take it up with him, The logical conclusion is that Oswald made that bag and carried his rifle in it that morning.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #62 on: March 22, 2018, 04:54:39 AM »

Offline Tim Nickerson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1427
Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #63 on: March 22, 2018, 04:57:57 AM »
A bag was recovered at some time after the rifle was discovered, somewhere near the SE corner of the 6th floor on the afternoon of the assassination by someone. Det Studebaker claimed he fingerprinted the bag and found a partial print and placed tape over it. It was removed from the building by Det. Montgomery around 3pm and placed into evidence at DPD. It was sent to the FBI labs via Vincent Drain around midnight. The labs found no tape but developed a separate  finger and palm print using silver nitrate and identified them to be Oswalds. Linnie May Randle was interviewed by the FBI, who claimed she estimated the length to be around 3 feet. She later testified that the package was close to the length consistently estimated by her brother.

Original statements generally carry more weight than statements made later on. do they not? By "testified that the package was close to the length consistently estimated by her brother" you mean she said it was 27 inches in length right?

Offline Tim Nickerson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1427
Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #64 on: March 22, 2018, 05:11:26 AM »
Did Lee construct CE 142 - yes or no?

Yes.

Quote
No one else's prints mattered Tim. The FBI expert only developed the ones belonging to Lee.

You mean that there were no other identifiable prints on the bag? How does that help your client?

Quote
By who?

By DPD officers.

Quote
But it wasnt CE 142 Tim.

Nonsense

Quote
BS - that's not what he said in 1963 or 1964 or even now. Bugliosi wanted to add doubt, but BWF corrected himself when questioned by Gerry Spence. Don't add CRAP, Tim.

Corrected himself how?

Quote
No Tim - there is nothing to support that.

Nothing but the evidence.

Quote
There never was one eye witness who saw Lee with CE 142 - folded or unfolded.

Frazier and his sister both saw Oswald with CE 142. Oswald lied to his interviewers, saying that he never carried a long package to work that morning and that he never told Frazier that he brought curtains rods with him. Deal with that Mr Defense Attorney.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #64 on: March 22, 2018, 05:11:26 AM »

Offline Tim Nickerson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1427
Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #65 on: March 22, 2018, 05:17:34 AM »
On the NIGHT of 22/11/1963 - neither BWF (even after being heavily interrogated, placed on a polygraph machine and threatened physical violence by Captain Fritz) or LMR could ID CE142 as being the paper bag in Lee's possession some 16 hours prior.

Anything after that is in your imagination Tim.

Frazier was not threatened with physical violence by Fritz or anyone else.  While on the polygraph machine, Frazier stated that the paper bag shown to him was possibly the same one that Oswald had with him. The problem was that Frazier had simply not paid enough attention to the bag that morning to be able to say definitively that it was or was not the same bag.

Offline Tim Nickerson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1427
Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #66 on: March 22, 2018, 05:46:23 AM »
Frazier stated that the paper bag shown to him was possibly the same one that Oswald had with him

Good Lord Tim! 38 inches X 8.5 inches is not "2 feet, give or take a few inches by 5 - 6 inches". Why are you denying this Tim?


Tony , you really are desperate. You keep referring to the dimensions of the bag when it is empty. The package was 35 inches long by about 6 inches in width.

Quote
Frazier was not threatened with physical violence

You don't think this was SOP for Captain Will Fritz?

The officers who spoke of Fritz over the years all spoke very highly of him. Being physically violent with a witness was not his SOP.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #66 on: March 22, 2018, 05:46:23 AM »

Offline Tim Nickerson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1427
Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #67 on: March 22, 2018, 05:48:23 AM »
Tim ,

You can not simply create your own version of events when the very eyewitnesses that were there were telling the authorizes that none of them saw CE 142 in Lee's possession. Deal with it.

Deal with that Mr Defense Attorney

I have more proof of it being constructed after the rifle was found than you will ever have of Lee doing the same the day prior.

Oswald lied to his interviewers, saying that he never carried a long package to work that morning and that he never told Frazier that he brought curtains rods with him. Deal with that Mr Defense Attorney.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #67 on: March 22, 2018, 05:48:23 AM »

Offline Tim Nickerson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1427
Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #68 on: March 22, 2018, 06:03:56 AM »
Irrelevant if Lee didn't have CE 142 in his possession Tim.

It is relevant and it's something that you cannot just dismiss or wish away. It has to be dealt with. How would you do so in front of a jury? Why would Oswald deny that he carried a long package to work that morning and deny that he told Frazier that it was curtain rods?

Offline Tim Nickerson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1427
Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #69 on: March 22, 2018, 06:07:29 AM »

Recognize the "players" Tim and their MO?

https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/2016/may/henry-wade-executed-innocent-man/

Fast forward to 22/11/1963.

Not that crap again Tony. It a bullshit story by a discredited author. Mary Mapes of the "Fake but accurate" story that got her and Dan Rather fired from CBS.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Why did Oswald go to the movies?
« Reply #69 on: March 22, 2018, 06:07:29 AM »

 

Mobile View