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Author Topic: Statements (& Questions) That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #147  (Read 528 times)

Online Rob Caprio

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📥 "Whether you agree with him or not, researchers such as Rob Caprio for example, took the sensible initiative and saved his own research, and he is now reposting them back on the Forum.
All other members are free to do the same.” –Duncan MacRae


Disclaimer: I will no longer respond to any posts that are off topic and/or meant to derail the issue of the opening post. This should not be taken as me running, but instead seen as me keeping the topic on track.

I have no issue with any WC defender, therefore, I am happy to discuss the case in a manner that uses the actual evidence with them. IF the WC was correct in their final conclusion as they claim then this should be no problem for them.

I will not participate in any personal discussions with them as these are meant to distract and discredit instead of focusing on the JFK assassination. I come here to discuss and learn about the JFK assassination and nothing more.

No more games with the LNers. The LNers have to to discuss the WC's, HSCA's and ARRB's evidence or move along.


It is time for more questions the Warren Commission (WC) defenders CAN’T answer.


1) Why was the Dallas Police Department (DPD) Chief of Police’s phone off the hook?

This is an important question as we know from the evidence in the twenty-six volumes death threats were coming in against Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO). This information was originally received by the FBI and they in turn informed both the DPD and Sheriff’s Office about this. We see evidence of Chief Curry’s phone being off the hook at this vital time in Talbert Exhibit 5068. Captain Cecil Talbert came to work on 11/24/63 at 6:00 a.m. and received the warning from the FBI, he then tried to contact Chief Curry.  Here is what happened.

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he was informed by Captain W.B. Frazier that the Dallas FBI office and Sheriff Bill Decker had called and informed that the FBI had received an anonymous call that Lee Harvey Oswald would be KILLED this date.   Captain Frazier told him that he had attempted to contact Chief Curry but was unable to do so. Talbert attempted to contact Chief Curry by telephone and the telephone line was OUT OF ORDER. He directed a squad to Chief Curry’s home with instructions for Chief Curry to call him. At about 6:30 AM Chief Curry CALLED and he relayed the message to the Chief. (Emphasis added) (Talbert Ex. 5068)

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We see here Chief Curry had his phone out of order due to having it OFF THE HOOK at this key time! Why? Why would he do this at a very important time (LHO would be transferred later in the morning and this really should have been given to Sheriff Decker anyway)? We have corroboration that a threat came in that morning as Assistant Chief Batchelor said this in his WC testimony.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you discuss with Chief Stevenson anywhere along the way upstairs this phone call which you received from Mr. Talbert earlier in the morning?

Chief BATCHELOR. Yes; I think I mentioned that to him.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember anything about that conversation?

Chief BATCHELOR. Not anything especially.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall whether he knew or Stevenson knew at the time you saw him down in the basement that there had been such a threat?

Chief BATCHELOR. I believe he did. I think someone from one of his bureaus had called him, if I remember right. It was rather common knowledge that a call like that had been received.

It was “common knowledge” that a threat had been received, but Chief Curry had his phone off the hook! He was also responsible for the transfer according to Captain Fritz too. Here is what I posted earlier in this series about this issue.

Mr. BALL. Did you consider transferring him at night?

Mr. FRITZ. At night?

Mr. BALL. Yes.

Mr. FRITZ. During the night on Saturday night, I had a call at my home from uniformed captain, Captain Frazier, I believe is his name, he called me out at home and told me they had had some threats and he had to transfer Oswald. And I said, well, I don't know. I said there has been no security setup, and the chief having something to do with this transfer and you had better call him, because---so he told me he would.

He has “something to do with the transfer”, and one would assume with the security setup, why was his phone off the hook? Finally, as posted earlier in this series, even the WC admitted these threats. On page 209 of the WC Report you will read this:

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During the night, between 2:30 and 3 a.m., the local office of the FBI and the Sheriff’s office received telephone calls from an unidentified man who warned that a committee had decided “to kill the man who had killed the President.” Shortly after, an FBI agent notified the Dallas police of the anonymous threat. The Police department and ultimately Chief Curry were informed of both threats.

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Can any WC defender answer this question or explain what he was doing at this critical time in leaving his phone off the hook?

2) Why didn’t the Sheriff’s Office handle the transfer of LHO like they did almost every other prisoner?

Assistant Chief Batchelor gives us more details on this in his WC testimony.

Mr. GRIFFIN. To your office. Do you remember what conversation you had with Chief Stevenson along the way?

Chief BATCHELOR. Well, we were commenting about that camera and that they were going to have to move it, and we were going to have to man that basement. But at the moment, plans hadn't jelled as to when we would move him. Actually, back in our minds, I suppose, was the idea that when the time came, that the sheriffs department would probably move him, because this is customary in moving a prisoner. They normally come down and get the prisoner.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Tell us what your conversation was with Chief Curry up in his office when you first went in?

Chief BATCHELOR. I asked him, I believe, if he had called Sheriff Decker.

Mr. GRIFFIN. What did he say?

Chief BATCHELOR. He said, no, he hadn't, but he was fixing to do that. And he did do it. He picked up the phone and called Sheriff Decker.

This was--I got down around 9 o'clock--I mean around 8 o'clock, correction--and it must have been somewhere around 8:30 or 8:45 when he called Decker.

Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you talk with him before he called Sheriff Decker?

Chief BATCHELOR. Just a few minutes. He called Sheriff Decker, and Decker said--and I was hearing only one side of the conversation, but I gathered that Decker had told him he thought he was going to move the prisoner. Curry said, "Well, if you want us to, we will." So he said, "I think you've got more manpower than we have. You move him if you will."

Then we had discussed this threat that had been received and----

Mr. GRIFFIN. You and----

Chief BATCHELOR. Curry.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Curry mention the threat to Decker in the telephone conversation?

Chief BATCHELOR. I just don't remember whether he did or not. I would think reasonably that he did, but I don't remember.

So we see according to Assistant Chief Batchelor Decker supposedly said “I think you got more manpower than we have. You move him if you will”, but doesn’t this go for every other prisoner? Doesn’t the DPD have more manpower than the Sheriff’s Office for every prisoner? Aren’t other prisoners in danger from time to time also, but did the Sheriff pawn them off to the DPD? I doubt it. Why did the Sheriff’s Office so willingly give away the protection of LHO in this case when it was THEIR RESPONSIBIILTY to transfer prisoners? The last question is a waste of time as we know Sheriff Decker had INFORMED Captain Talbert about the death threat so he did NOT need Chief Curry to tell him about it (as we saw in question one Decker knew about it long before Curry did).

We see further corroboration that the transfer of prisoners falls to the Sheriffs Office from Lieutenant Woodrow Wiggins in his WC testimony.

Mr. HUBERT. On November 24, what was your situation?

Lieutenant WIGGINS. I was working the jail. My jail lieutenant was off that day.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, working the jail entails what responsibilities and duties?

Lieutenant WIGGINS. I'm in charge of everything that goes on in the jail, and among other duties, I pass on all prisoners that are put into jail.

Mr. HUBERT. When you say "pass," on them, what do you mean?

Lieutenant WIGGINS. I check to see their--the arrest is legal, and that I think the charge is proper and that this person belongs in jail before he is placed in jail.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, have you any duties or responsibilities with respect to the transfer of prisoners, in your capacity as jail lieutenant?

Lieutenant WIGGINS. Nothing more than as is normal to turn them over to either the constable or deputy sheriff who transfers them to the county jail.

Mr. HUBERT. With reference to prisoners who are transferred from the city jail to the county jail, is it customary for your department to transfer them to the county jail, or is it customary for the State deputies to come and get the prisoner?

Lieutenant WIGGINS. It is customary for the deputy sheriff or constable to come and get a prisoner.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you know why an exception was made in the case of Oswald?

Lieutenant WIGGINS. I was never told.

Why NOT? Wouldn’t it be more prudent to tell the man in charge of the jail why they were NOT following NORMAL procedure?

Mr. HUBERT. In other words, normally, it would have been Sheriff Decker's duty to come and get Oswald, is that correct?

Lieutenant WIGGINS. Normally, it would have been that way.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you know, or did you ever hear it discussed, the reason why the normal procedure was not followed?

Lieutenant WIGGINS. No; I haven't. When I make that statement--I have surmised that it was for better protection due to the fact that we have more men, possibly, than Sheriff Decker did. That is strictly a surmise of mine, of my own.

Despite the DPD having more men LHO was GUNNED DOWN in the basement with all the cops watching.  Do you think the Sheriff’s Office could have done worse with fewer men? I doubt it.

Even the WC lawyer found it odd that NO one gave him orders or details about the transfer of LHO.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you know of any of the plans for removal of Oswald, or the transfer?

Lieutenant WIGGINS. I knew of no plans. I had been informed by the platoon that--I believe that it was understood that he would be transferred after 10 o'clock in the morning. Now, that was----

Mr. HUBERT. No one gave you any orders or assigned any duties to you in connection with the transfer?

Lieutenant WIGGINS. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Did any sheriff come with a warrant for his release?

Lieutenant WIGGINS. Not to my knowledge.

Again, this is strange and rare. They discuss this more.

Mr. HUBERT. Well, under normal circumstances would you allow a prisoner to be removed by the city police?

Lieutenant WIGGINS. Yes.

This sounds promising until you read on.

Mr. HUBERT. He would be out of your custody on "tempo," is that right?

Lieutenant WIGGINS. Not necessarily. Let me say this: that the--that the city police transfer prisoners on occasion over to the county jail.

Mr. HUBERT. Yes.

Lieutenant WIGGINS. But, this is rare. It is--there are instances I can name. For instance, they have filed on a prisoner and just for courtesy to the prisoner, more or less, he wants to get to the county and they just transfer him on down to the county themselves.

We see it is RARE for the DPD to do a transfer. They did NOT follow the normal procedure for LHO or his belongings either.

Mr. HUBERT. How do you relieve yourselves of responsibility in those circumstances?

Lieutenant WIGGINS. Each prisoner who is transferred, the card is signed, or the name of the officer that is making the transfer is placed on his card. His property is turned over to the officer making the transfer.

Mr. HUBERT. Was this done in this way?

Lieutenant WIGGINS. No: in this case, they were going to take the property later.

It seems like the DPD was NOT too worried about bringing LHO’s belongings with them when they transferred him as IF they knew he would NOT be needing them. When did Wiggins learn of the transfer taking place?

Mr. HUBERT. When were you first aware that Oswald was going to be moved in the immediate future?

Lieutenant WIGGINS. When was I aware that he was en route, or----

Mr. HUBERT. Yes.

Lieutenant WIGGINS. Or, being moved to the county?

Mr. HUBERT. Yes.

Lieutenant WIGGINS. I'd say possibly a minute before the shooting occurred, they called me--someone called me from the--Captain Fritz' office, the homicide bureau, and told me they were en route down the elevator with Oswald, and I know that when I hung the phone up I looked in and could tell by the elevator lights it was on the way down.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, in your statement you fix that moment at 11:20. How do you fix that? Do you remember now how you fixed that?

Lieutenant WIGGINS. I remember looking at our clock as they came by. I don't know why, but I looked, just to be sure.

So a minute before LHO was gunned down he was called and told they were transferring LHO with NO one signing the transfer card or coming for LHO’s belongings!  Why was the change made this time? The claim of it being because the “DPD had more men” is ludicrous given the FACT LHO was gunned down while in their custody—so what is the real reason for the change in policy in regards to LHO? 

Can any WC defender answer or explain this?

3) Why was one of  the cops handcuffed to LHO NOT told about the threats made against LHO?

If we go to L.C. Graves testimony we will see this.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, prior to taking Oswald down to the basement, had you learned anything about the threatening telephone calls which the police department had received?

Mr. GRAVES. I had not. At that time I didn't know that there had been any threatening calls.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you subsequently learn?

Mr. GRAVES. Yes; learned later that the FBI had a call to that effect, but I learned that our office had had similar calls, too. (XIII, pp. 5-6)

We see Graves had NO idea any threats had been made at the time he was transferring LHO. Why NOT? I would love to know if Leavelle knew, but the WC did NOT see fit to ask him. He does give us a very good bit of information though.

Mr. HUBERT. Yes; push it back a little further. From the time you left the jail cell.

Mr. LEAVELLE. All right, when we left the jail cell, we proceeded down to the booking desk there, up to the door leading out into the basement, and I purposely told Mr. Graves to hold it a minute while Captain Fritz checked the area outside. I don't know why I did that, because we had not made any plans to do so, but I said, "Let's hold it a minute and let him see if everything is in order." Because we had been given to understand that the car would be across the passageway.

Mr. HUBERT. Of the jail corridor?

Mr. LEAVELLE. And that--and we would have nothing to do but walk straight from the door, approximately 13 or 14 feet to the car and then Captain Fritz--when we asked him to give us the high sign on it he said, "Everything is all set."

Mr. HUBERT. Did you notice what time it was?

Mr. LEAVELLE. No; I did not. That is the only error that I can see. The captain should have known that the car was not in the position it should be, and I was surprised when I walked to the door and the car was not in the spot it should have been, but I could see it was in back, and backing into position, but had it been in position where we were told it would be, that would have eliminated a lot of the area in which anyone would have access to him, because it would have been blocked by the car. In fact, if the car had been sitting where we were told it was going to be, see--it would have been sitting directly upon the spot where Ruby was standing when he fired the shot.

We see Captain Fritz said everything was “all set” when it was NOT! One has to wonder what he meant by all set, huh? The car should have been close to the door and it was NOT! Why would Fritz say everything was set when it was clearly NOT? Leavelle even says IF the car was where it was supposed to be Ruby could NOT have shot LHO! Can any WC defender explain this better than the WC did? Here is the excuse the WC put into the record for the car NOT being in place.

Mr. HUBERT. Of course, in that case the television cameras would have been blocked out?

Mr. LEAVELLE. That's true.

God forbid we block the camera, huh? I guess LHO staying alive was NOT as important as letting the media have their camera shot UNOBSTRUCTED, huh? A third party to this saga is Detective L.D. Montgomery. Here is some of his WC testimony.

Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you do while these two officers were bringing Oswald down to Fritz' office?

Mr. MONTGOMERY. I didn't do anything outstanding. Must have been just answer the telephone.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, were the telephone calls that you were getting the same kind of calls that you had been getting?


Mr. GRIFFIN. Any useful information come out of these calls?

Mr. MONTGOMERY. No. (XIII, p. 25)

What kind of calls are we talking about here? Were they the DEATH THREAT kind? Who knows as the WC lawyer didn’t see fit to clarity for us.

Mr. GRIFFIN. What did he tell you?

Mr. MONTGOMERY. He told us we was going to, you know, transfer him to county jail.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he tell you how you were going to go?

Mr. MONTGOMERY. Told us we were going to use his car, the captain's car. Said he had an armored car down there, but they wasn't going to use it.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he tell you why he wasn't going to use it?

Mr. MONTGOMERY. I think he said it was too big and bulky.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you aware of an earlier plan to take him by way of Elm Street rather than Main?

Mr. MONTGOMERY. He said that the armored car was supposed to go up Elm Street and act as a decoy. (XIII, pp. 26-27)

Decoy? Don’t you think the camera you did NOT want to block showing LHO getting into a CAR would have DESTROYED the chance of a decoy working? Why did they think anyone who wanted LHO dead might not watch television or listen to the radio? Why was LHO handcuffed in the first place based on Montgomery’s view?

Mr. GRIFFIN. What else did he tell you about how he was going to be moved?

Mr. MONTGOMERY. Of course, he said, no; he wanted Graves on one side and Leavelle on the other, and wanted Leavelle to handcuff himself to Oswald there so he wouldn't get away, and said, "I'll lead the way out." And told me, said, "I want you to follow behind Oswald," which I did.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he tell you what you were supposed to do?

Mr. MONTGOMERY. Make sure he didn't get away.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Was there some concern that Oswald might try to get away? Was this actually discussed, the possibility that Oswald might try to escape?

Mr. MONTGOMERY. I don't know that there was anything actually discussed about him trying to get away. No.

Mr. GRIFFIN. But you have the feeling that he might try to break away?

Mr. MONTGOMERY. No; I didn't have a feeling that he would try, but he just said to stay there with him and make sure he doesn't. (XIII, p. 28)

IF LHO was NOT going to try and escape (where could he go with 70 cops in the basement anyway?) why was he being handcuffed at all? Was it to make sure he did NOT avoid the shot by Ruby? One has to wonder this when Fritz said everything was set, but the car was NOT in place and Ruby could NOT have shot LHO IF the car was in place.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, did you feel that your reason, your primary reason for being behind him was to prevent him from getting away rather than to prevent somebody from getting to him?

Mr. MONTGOMERY. Keep him from getting away. (XIII, p. 28)

Getting away from what? Ruby’s bullet? There were 70 cops in the basement plus a bunch of media people, how could LHO get away again?

How many coincidences add up to conspiracy? Can all of these things just be coincidences? OR, do they show a deliberate plan to have LHO done away with?

Can any WC defender show us it was all just a big coincidence?

IF NOT the WC is sunk by their own evidence again!
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 05:36:04 PM by Rob Caprio »

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