What Would a Valid Lone-Gunman Rifle Test Look Like?

[Michael T. Griffith]

In the 1963 and 1967 rifle tests, 14 of the 15 riflemen, 13 of whom were experienced and highly skilled riflemen, and three of whom were Master-rated riflemen, tried and failed to duplicate Oswald's alleged shooting feat of scoring two hits in three shots in 6 seconds on his first attempt. Even the one expert rifleman who scored two hits in three shots in 6 seconds on his first attempt did not actually duplicate Oswald's supposed feat because he fired under conditions that were substantially easier than those Oswald would have faced, and because he had far better rifle skills than Oswald had.

So, what would a valid, realistic lone-gunman rifle test look like? What would a rifle test need to include to duplicate all the conditions of the shooting feat attributed to Lee Harvey Oswald? The test would have to include the following:

-- None of the participants can have scored higher than the second category of the three qualification categories for the Marine Corps or the Army, if they have ever been in the military.

-- Any participant who has not been in the Marine Corps or the Army cannot have scored higher than the third category of the six NRA qualification categories.

-- Each participant must be described as a poor shot by nearly all of the 50-plus people who saw him shoot four to seven years earlier and who are interviewed and asked about his shooting skills. Rockefeller Foundation fellow and investigative journalist Henry Hurt:

In 1977 the author located and interviewed more than fifty of
Oswald's Marine Corps colleagues, who had never been questioned
by officials or journalists. On the subject of Oswald's shooting ability,
there was virtually no exception to Delgado's opinion that it was
laughable.

Sherman Cooley, an expert hunter who grew up in rural Louisiana,
knew Oswald well during their Marine Corps service. Cooley's
comment capsulizes what several dozen Marines had to say about
Oswald's ability as a marksman:

"If I had to pick one man in the whole United States to shoot me,
I'd pick Oswald. I saw that man shoot, and there's no way he could
have ever learned to shoot well enough to do what they accused him of.
Take me, I'm one of the best shots around, and I couldn't have done it."

Many of the Marines mentioned that Oswald had a certain lack of
coordination that, they felt, was responsible for the fact that he
had difficulty learning to shoot. They believed it was the same
deficiency in coordination responsible for his reported inability to
drive a car. Repeatedly, as an illustration of his ineptitude, the
former Marines harked back to the time Oswald managed to shoot
himself in the arm while fooling with an unauthorized pistol he had
stashed in his locker. (Reasonable Doubt, pp. 99-100)

-- Each participant must be described as a poor shot by people who saw him shoot one to three years earlier. Oswald was in the Soviet Union from October 1959 till June 1962. For most of his time in Russia, he lived in the city of Minsk. While there, he belonged to a gun club. The members of his gun club viewed him as a poor shot:

Members of the club reported that Oswald had been considered a
poor shot. (G. Robert Blakey and Richard Billings, Fatal Hour: The
Assassination of President Kennedy by Organized Crime, New York:
Berkley Books, 1992, p. 139).

Subsequent press releases out of the former Soviet Union likewise reported that Russians who saw Oswald shoot considered him to be a bad shot.

-- Participants must use a Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, which is not considered to be a high-quality rifle when it comes to firing rapidly with accuracy. Henry Hurt:

In any discussion of Oswald's Marine marksmanship, there is a
presumption that the rifle being used is one of acceptable quality.
The ancient, bolt-action Mannlicher-Carcano—built around 1940—
represents the opposite extreme. One handbook on rifles has called
it "an odd choice" for the assassination, since it "has no great reputation
for accuracy." This type of weapon also has "a good deal of recoil,"
making rapid shooting "notoriously difficult" considering the
cheap telescope used.

Mechanix Illustrated, one of this country's most respected journals
of popular technology and gadgetry, carried an article in 1964 on
the best way to find bargains in purchasing surplus military weapons.
The article had nothing to do with the assassination rifle and did not
even mention the connection. In advising its readers about various
characteristics of more than a dozen rifles, Mechanix Illustrated
dismissed the Mannlicher-Carcano as being "crudely made, poorly
designed, dangerous, inaccurate . . . unreliable on repeat shots."

The Oswald rifle was further handicapped by the fact that, according
to the FBI, the scope was mounted off center, so that a shooter would
have to compensate for the error. (Reasonable Doubt, p. 100)

-- The participants cannot fire any practice rounds before the rifle test.

-- The participants must fire in the same cramped conditions that Oswald would have faced in the alleged sniper's nest in the sixth-floor window. Look at these photos to get some idea of how cramped/tight the firing location would have been for Oswald:

"The Cramped Quarters/Tight Space of the Alleged Sniper's Nest in the Southeast Corner Window of the Texas School Book Depository"
https://sites.google.com/view/tight-space-for-sniper/home

-- The firing location must include a half-open window, in addition to the same cramped space that Oswald would have faced, and participants must fire through that half-open window.

-- The participants can take up to 11 seconds to fire their three shots, but their final two shots must be fired in less than 6 seconds and must both be hits. If one of their final two shots is a miss, then their first shot must be a hit, the second shot a miss, and the third shot a hit.

-- A shot will only be counted as a hit if it lands in the same small area that Oswald allegedly hit with two of his shots.

-- The participants will get only one attempt.

-- The participants must fire from an elevation of 60 feet.

-- The participants must fire at a moving target silhouette.

-- The participants must believe there is a chance that they will be hit by a dart fired by one or more of the people riding behind the target silhouette if they do not fire their final two shots in 6 seconds or less. Obviously, there can be chance of serious injury, or else no one would agree to participate. So, the chance of injury must be no more than the dart hitting the arm or the shoulder, with an absolute guarantee that the dart will not hit the head, face, or chest of the participants.

People usually forget that the alleged lone gunman would have faced the very real possibility, at least in his mind, that one or more of the Secret Service agents could spot his rifle and fire at his window. This would have put great pressure on him to fire his shots as quickly as possible so he could begin his escape--unless, of course, he had been assured that no such return fire would occur, but lone-gunman theorists rule out such a scenario.

-- The participants must not have target-practiced within 40 days of the test. The FBI could find no evidence that Oswald did any target practice in the 40 days leading up to the 11/22 shooting. In fact, in the four years leading up to the assassination, the Warren Commission could only come up with 12 alleged cases where Oswald had any rifle practice, and one of those included Marina's belated claim that he would practice working the rifle's bolt while relaxing in New Orleans.

I can think of a few more conditions, but they are minor. The above conditions would make any rifle test a valid, realistic lone-gunman rifle test.

[Jack Nessan]

I can think of a few more conditions, but they are minor. The above conditions would make any rifle test a valid, realistic lone-gunman rifle test.

How about two shots in 5.6 seconds. Everything else is fantasy and a waste of time and ammo. Try duplicating that.

[Lance Payette]

Oswald's actual results - which one of you folks could have purchased for a mere $75,000 if you weren't so cheap  - speak for themselves:

https://www.rrauction.com/auctions/lot-detail/345171706200220-lee-harvey-oswalds-us-marine-corps-rifle-score-book-warren-commission-exhibit-no-239/

On December 21, 1956, Oswald was tested for marksmanship with his rifle on five different exercises—from 200, 300 and 500 yards firing slowly and from 200 and 300 yards firing rapidly. Based on these results a Marine would be rated by a defined scoring system: over 190 points was considered a marksman, over 210 was a sharpshooter, and over 220 was considered an expert. Oswald scored 212 and was rated in the middle as a sharpshooter. For the slow test (page 5), the target was 10" tall by 10" wide. For the rapid fire test the target was 26" wide by 19" tall. A closer examination of Oswald's 200 yard rapid fire result shows he hit 8/10 bullseyes and scored 48 out of 50. An expert rating on this test would have required a minimum score of 44 points (44 points x 5 tests = 220 points required). On his next test, 300 yards in rapid fire, Oswald hit 7/10 bullseyes scoring 46 out of 50. Again an expert rating on this test would have required a result of 44. So in both tests that most closely matched the conditions in the Kennedy assassination for rapid fire shooting Oswald scored above an expert level. Additionally on his third test from 500 yards firing slowly, Oswald scored 46 out of a possible 50: again shooting above an expert level.

46 out of 50 at 500 yards with iron sights.

Silly, desperate people persist with silly, desperate arguments.

[Michael T. Griffith]

Oswald's actual results - which one of you folks could have purchased for a mere $75,000 if you weren't so cheap  - speak for themselves:

https://www.rrauction.com/auctions/lot-detail/345171706200220-lee-harvey-oswalds-us-marine-corps-rifle-score-book-warren-commission-exhibit-no-239/

On December 21, 1956, Oswald was tested for marksmanship with his rifle on five different exercises—from 200, 300 and 500 yards firing slowly and from 200 and 300 yards firing rapidly. Based on these results a Marine would be rated by a defined scoring system: over 190 points was considered a marksman, over 210 was a sharpshooter, and over 220 was considered an expert. Oswald scored 212 and was rated in the middle as a sharpshooter. For the slow test (page 5), the target was 10" tall by 10" wide. For the rapid fire test the target was 26" wide by 19" tall. A closer examination of Oswald's 200 yard rapid fire result shows he hit 8/10 bullseyes and scored 48 out of 50. An expert rating on this test would have required a minimum score of 44 points (44 points x 5 tests = 220 points required). On his next test, 300 yards in rapid fire, Oswald hit 7/10 bullseyes scoring 46 out of 50. Again an expert rating on this test would have required a result of 44. So in both tests that most closely matched the conditions in the Kennedy assassination for rapid fire shooting Oswald scored above an expert level. Additionally on his third test from 500 yards firing slowly, Oswald scored 46 out of a possible 50: again shooting above an expert level.

46 out of 50 at 500 yards with iron sights. Silly, desperate people persist with silly, desperate arguments.

And you are among the silly, desperate people who keep repeating silly, desperate arguments, and who keep ignoring facts that refute your fiction. People who read my OP and then read your pitiful reply will recognize that you have ducked every fact that contradicts your fantasy.

It is laughable, unserious drivel to appeal to Oswald's Marine rifle scores, not to mention that doing so doesn't lay a finger on the WC and CBS rifle tests and ignores the key components of the alleged shooting feat.

A few facts about Oswald's Marine Corps rifle scores (most of which I've mentioned several times in previous threads):

-- The so-called "rapid fire" phase of the Marine Corps qualification test was far, far longer than the alleged lone gunman would have had to fire all three of his shots. During the "rapid fire" phase on the Marine Corps rifle range, Oswald had 60 seconds to fire 10 shots (or 6 seconds per shot). On 11/22/63, he would have had no more than 11 seconds to fire three shots (or no more than 3.6 seconds per shot), would have had to fire his final two shots in 5.6 seconds (2.3 seconds per shot), and would have had to do so from 60 feet up, in cramped quarters, with no practice in the preceding 40 days, and using a bolt-action rifle that had a difficult bolt and an odd trigger pull.

-- The December 1956 Oswald Marine Corps rifle scores you cite barely exceeded the minimum for the second of three qualification categories.

-- Some new recruits, who never fired a rifle before, have met or bettered the Oswald shooting scores that you cite. In Army basic training, I personally saw several such new recruits qualify in the second category (Sharpshooter).

-- Oswald was using a superb semi-automatic rifle, which means he had no bolt to worry about working. I know you know very little about weapons, but ask any serious rifleman if not having to operate a bolt action makes a big difference in your ability to fire quickly and accurately.

-- Oswald was firing from a level shooting position.

-- Oswald was firing at targets that he had recently spent hours practicing against.

-- When Oswald fired for record in May 1959, he barely managed to qualify in the last category of the three qualification categories.

I've seen your dance before. I know you're never going to get around to dealing with the facts about the actual shooting feat under discussion and with the facts regarding the rifle tests that attempted to show the feasibility of that shooting feat.

[Jack Nessan]

MGriffith
“It is laughable, unserious drivel to appeal to Oswald's Marine rifle scores, not to mention that doing so doesn't lay a finger on the WC and CBS rifle tests and ignores the key components of the alleged shooting feat.”
 
“A few facts about Oswald's Marine Corps rifle scores (most of which I've mentioned several times in previous threads):

....On 11/22/63, he would have had no more than 11 seconds to fire three shots (or no more than 3.6 seconds per shot), would have had to fire his final two shots in 5.6 seconds (2.3 seconds per shot),[/u][/i] and would have had to do so from 60 feet up, in cramped quarters, with no practice in the preceding 40 days, and using a bolt-action rifle that had a difficult bolt and an odd trigger pull.”

It looks like you are a Lone Nut advocate after all. Nice to see you finally clued in.

Let us examine your current shooting sequence.

First shot @ z112 -----(11 seconds from Z313)

Second shot @ Z210---(5.6 seconds from Z313)

Third shot @ Z313 

First shot--- an obvious miss or Phantom Shot. You have set a new record for how early the first missed shot occurred.

Second shot--- SBT---A Single Bullet wounds JFK and causes all the wounds to JBC. Definitely right about that shot.

Third shot --- Fatal head shot. Hard to argue that one.

Congratulations, you have managed to leave Clown Town in the rear-view mirror. 

You already have stated that LHO only fired twice, and CE 543 was not fired that day. That would scratch the shot at Z110. 

Nice turn around Michael, you have managed to figure out there really was only two shots fired that day. I was losing hope you would ever understand something this simple.