The "mysterious death" of Hale Boggs, anyone?

[Tim Nickerson]

Yes, I wish I could recover some of it myself! I was fairly proud of my work on the HT LINGUAL program and the Raleigh phone call. I did only delete the posts from my most recent incarnation there. However, all the surviving ones are now shown as "Guest" posts. Since lots of other people who have departed are also shown as "Guest," mine are hell to find unless I remember exactly what I said and can search by the specific language, as with my "Beginner's Guide to the Conspiracy Game."

I actually have some of what you posted in the ED Forum saved in a Doc file. Not much though.

[Lance Payette]

I actually have some of what you posted in the ED Forum saved in a Doc file. Not much though.

I've probably mentioned it before, but I lurked at the Ed Forum (as a CTer, mind you) for quite a while, AWED by how much these characters knew and feeling entirely unworthy. One day, the Klein's postal money order came up. I saw the numbers across the top and simply wondered "So what are those?" I could find no discussion of them at all. In about an hour, I discovered an article explaining the Treasury Department's then-new punch card system and that these numbers showed the money order had been processed through the Federal Reserve banking system and stored at the federal records center. Suddenly, I found myself being referred to - comically, it seemed to me - as a "JFK researcher." The fact that these numbers had apparently not been previously identified was kind of eye-opening to me about the status of JFKA "research."

It also seemed to me that my discovery pretty well killed any argument that the money order was bogus or lacking in the "bank stamps" it supposedly should have had. But NOOOOO ... Sandy Larsen just moved the goal posts and insisted the money order had been planted at the records center (but without the "bank stamps" that are the big red flags for CTers?). So now we were off to the races. I did extensive research as to how postal money orders worked and thought I had pretty well resolved the issue. But NOOOOO ... Lawyer Sandy (I think he was some sort of engineer) did his own legal research, which was completely flawed, and not only announced victory but declared it one of his greatest triumphs.

Suffice it to say, my previous AWE was long gone. I probably should have quit right there. I did realize, however, that busting CT factoids could be kind of fun in small doses. As Steve has pointed out, however, it's completely exhausting - I must have 15 hours in this Boggs nonsense alone - and entirely futile. In fact, when I joined here I was in the process of writing the DEFINITIVE expose of the money order silliness, tracing the evolution of the money order system back to the 1800s. Poor Sandy had simply worked himself into total confusion, as non-lawyers tend to do when faced with statutes and regulations. But that project became so absurdly long and time-consuming that I deleted it, too, and decided I'd let Sandy have his little victory.

Seldom have I had one as much fun as this Boggs stuff, I must say.

[Tim Nickerson]

I've probably mentioned it before, but I lurked at the Ed Forum (as a CTer, mind you) for quite a while, AWED by how much these characters knew and feeling entirely unworthy. One day, the Klein's postal money order came up. I saw the numbers across the top and simply wondered "So what are those?" I could find no discussion of them at all. In about an hour, I discovered an article explaining the Treasury Department's then-new punch card system and that these numbers showed the money order had been processed through the Federal Reserve banking system and stored at the federal records center. Suddenly, I found myself being referred to - comically, it seemed to me - as a "JFK researcher." The fact that these numbers had apparently not been previously identified was kind of eye-opening to me about the status of JFKA "research."

It also seemed to me that my discovery pretty well killed any argument that the money order was bogus or lacking in the "bank stamps" it supposedly should have had. But NOOOOO ... Sandy Larsen just moved the goal posts and insisted the money order had been planted at the records center (but without the "bank stamps" that are the big red flags for CTers?). So now we were off to the races. I did extensive research as to how postal money orders worked and thought I had pretty well resolved the issue. But NOOOOO ... Lawyer Sandy (I think he was some sort of engineer) did his own legal research, which was completely flawed, and not only announced victory but declared it one of his greatest triumphs.

Suffice it to say, my previous AWE was long gone. I probably should have quit right there. I did realize, however, that busting CT factoids could be kind of fun in small doses. As Steve has pointed out, however, it's completely exhausting - I must have 15 hours in this Boggs nonsense alone - and entirely futile. In fact, when I joined here I was in the process of writing the DEFINITIVE expose of the money order silliness, tracing the evolution of the money order system back to the 1800s. Poor Sandy had simply worked himself into total confusion, as non-lawyers tend to do when faced with statutes and regulations. But that project became so absurdly long and time-consuming that I deleted it, too, and decided I'd let Sandy have his little victory.

Seldom have I had one as much fun as this Boggs stuff, I must say.

I was the one who found the uncashed US Postal money order. I posted here in these forums. I think that it was David Von Pein who then posted it on the ED Forum.



In looking through my doc file on your ED forum posts, I see that it has DiEugenio's plural version of Moe Green's remark from The Godfather. It was addressed to you. It was basically "Do you know who we are? 

[Lance Payette]

On it goes ...

John Simkin, founder of the Ed Forum, whom I once considered rational only because I knew absolutely nothing about him and his photo looked sort of rational, posted TODAY, a mere 5 HOURS AGO, his apparent final word on the Boggs case.

He repeats the factoids from Boggs' speech in April of 1971. Boggs did NOT say "the [FBI] files consisted of information on seven persons who had written critically of the Warren Commission's findings." He said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the Warren Commission. Boggs did NOT "accuse J. Edgar Hoover of being 'incompetent and senile'." READ THE SPEECH. BOGGS ABSOLUTELY DID NOT SAY THIS.

He repeats the "Los Angeles Star reported" factoid. Someone needs to send Simkin some of my images of the LA Star, doncha think?

He repeats the "startling revelations" factoid and attributes it to Boggs rather than an unnamed former aide.

He introduces a factoid about journalist Ron Kessler, Boggs' son, the Warren Commission, yada yada. What is the source of this factoid, you ask? You got it: BERNIE FENSTERWALD'S BOOK, Coincidence or Conspiracy! I will admit, I didn't spend hours attempting to bust this factoid, but a brief search revealed nothing to support it. Perhaps I will turn the tables and challenge you CTers to verify it - somewhere, anywhere, other than a CT source.

He says he listened to the entire "Missing in Alaska" podcast of Jon Walczak. Nevertheless, he repeatedly refers to Walczak as Walzack and Pegge Begich as Peggy. Some of what he says is accurate and some is not, but I'll let it go.

I won't beat this to death. CTers, your gods have feet of clay. They cannot be trusted, simple as that. They weave factoids until their readers are cross-eyed, entirely without regard to whether those factoids have been thoroughly busted. And, as we once again see here, what starts out as dubious factoid in a dubious source ends up being repeated 400 times and ending up as conspiracy gospel 50 years later.

[Lance Payette]

I'll admit, I'm a hopeless sucker for anything connected with the JFKA that produces giggles. This is a conversation between Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford the morning after Boggs' little speech demanding Hoover's resignation. It is, IMHO, hysterical. Tricky Dick and Goofy Gerry are absolutely AGOG. Bear in mind, Boggs was the House Majority leader. But our heroes agree, he's NUTS! he's ON THE SAUCE! if he isn't drinking, he's ON PILLS! he simply CAN'T BE TRUSTED! and must be EXCLUDED FROM MEETINGS! At one point, Tricky assures Goofy that "no person setting foot on Capitol Hill" has been taped by the FBI "since 1924." Gerry says he had no idea, but he laps it up.

Alas, they do not discuss the Warren Commission, Joe Bananas, the Mafia or bombs. Those discussions were later in the afternoon when they were just "kicking some ideas around" over cold Buds in the Oval Office.

I said somewhere up above that Nixon admired Boggs. There is evidence to that effect, but not on THIS day.

[Lance Payette]

OK, I’m admittedly like a dog gnawing on a bone – a dog recovering from Achilles surgery, mind you – but we Factoid Busters are an intrepid bunch. This what Simkin said today:

After the death of Boggs, Ron Kessler, reported in the Washington Post that his son Thomas Hale Boggs Jr claimed that the FBI had mounted a smear campaign against his father because of his criticism of the Warren Commission Report. “The material, which Thomas Boggs made available, includes photographs of sexual activity and reports on alleged communist affiliations of some authors of articles and books on the assassination.” He said these dossiers had been compiled by the FBI on Warren Commission critics in order to discredit them. “Mr. Boggs said the files consisted of information on seven persons who had written critically of the commission's findings.”

This is, I am happy to report, not totally bogus. It is, however, totally misleading.

I could not locate the Washington Post article by Kessler, but I did find it quoted in the Salt Lake City Tribune of January 21, 1975 (same day as the Post article). Kessler, in case you don’t know, is still alive, a prolific author, and has been described as The Donald’s #1 cheerleader. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Kessler. Thomas Hale Boggs, Jr., was a Washington lawyer and power-broker who died in 2014. I could find nothing where Junior criticized the Warren Commission.

Here is the Post article in its entirety:

The son of the late House Majority Leader Boggs has told The Post that the FBI leaked to his father damaging material on the personal lives of critics of its investigation into John F. Kennedy's assassination. Thomas Hale Boggs, Jr. said his father, who was a member of the Warren Commission, which investigated the assassination and its handling by the FBI, was given the material in an apparent attempt to discredit the critics (of the Warren Commission).

The material, which Thomas Boggs made available, includes photographs of sexual activity and reports on alleged communist affiliations of some authors of articles and books on the assassination.

Boggs, a Washington lawyer, said the experience played a large role in his father's decision to publicly charge the FBI with Gestapo tactics in a 1971 speech alleging the Bureau had wiretapped his telephone and that of other Congressmen.

I found substantially the same information in the New York Times of January 31, 1975. The only oddity is that the Washington Post article was in the January 21 edition, whereas the Times place says Boggs, Jr., “said today,” meaning January 21. Perhaps Junior spoke to both newspapers. Here’s the Times piece, which was not a major story:

The son of the late Representative Hale Boggs, Democrat of Louisiana, said today that his father had given him dossiers that the Federal Bureau of Investigation had compiled on critics of the Warren Commission in an attempt to discredit them. “They weren't basically sex files,” said Tom H. Boggs, of Washington, a lawyer. “They had some of that element but most of the material dealt with leftwing organizations these people belonged to.”

Mr. Boggs said that he had received the material in late 1970 and had kept it in a safe deposit box.

The senior Mr. Boggs was a member of the Warren Commission established to investigate the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

In 1971, the Congressman made a speech on the floor of the House accusing the F.B.I. of tapping his phones and keeping dossiers on members of Congress. Those charges were never substantiated by Mr. Boggs, who disappeared in October, 1972, while on an airplane flight in Alaska. Mr. Boggs said the files consisted of information on seven persons who had written critically of the commission's findings.

Now wait a minute. Read that Simkin quote again. Boggs, Jr., said the FBI had mounted a “smear campaign” against his father? Is that what either article says?

Hell, no.

In fact, the FBI provided to Boggs, a Warren Commission member, dossiers containing some sexual material but principally material related to leftwing organizations that the FBI had assembled on critics of the Warren Commission in an attempt to discredit them. How did this constitute a “smear campaign” against Boggs, and why does neither article say anything like this? (Who does say it, you ask: Bernie Fensterwald. Oh, God.)

Boggs, Sr., gave the dossiers to Junior in 1970, and Junior kept them in a safe. Junior says this experience was an influence on Boggs in his later denunciation of the FBI for its “Gestapo” activities, but what on earth does it have to do with the 1972 plane crash? I’m lost. Simkin seems to be suggesting this was some warning about what the FBI could do to Boggs if he criticized the WC, but there is absolutely no hint of that.

The scales have fallen from my eyes. John Simkin, whose photo makes him look as benign and rational as Ward Cleaver, is just another CT wacko of the first magnitude.