The deformation of CE-399 adds credibility to the SBT

[Michael T. Griffith]

This is downright comical and is so typical of the phony tests that people like Fackler will conduct to try to salvage the SBT.

First of all, not one of Fackler's test bullets passed through a simulated human neck and then destroyed 5 inches of rib bone while tearing through a simulated human chest before striking the cadaver radius bones. Not one. Let me repeat that so the phony nature of Fackler's test can sink in: Fackler made no effort to simulate a human neck, a human chest, and a rib bone. Not one of his bullets hit anything before they hit the cadaver radius bones. Fackler simply shot cadaver radius bones with bullets whose velocity had been lowered down to 1100-1300 FPS!

Are you kidding me? How can anyone cite this test with a straight face? Did you or any other SBT believer even bother to actually read Fackler's article on his SBT test? How, David, did you miss the fact that none of his test bullets hit anything before hitting the cadaver wrists?

Of course, Fackler rigged the test because he knew full well that if his test bullets first had to transit a human neck and then tear through a human chest and demolish 5 inches of rib bone in the process, the bullets would emerge markedly deformed, just as they did in the AAT test and in Lattimer's test.

I repeat again:

-- In Dr. Dolce's SBT test for the WC, even 6.5 mm FMJ bullets fired into cotton wadding emerged with more deformity than CE 399.

-- In the 1967 CBS test, not one of the 6.5 mm FMJ bullets that merely passed through the 12-inch gelatin block before hitting cadaver wrists never had enough velocity to penetrate the simulated thigh, and some of them never even managed to exit the wrists.

-- In the 1992 AAT SBT test, a 6.5 mm FMJ bullet was fired into two gelatin blocks. The second gelatin block contained animal bones to simulate the shattering of a rib bone and the smashing of a wrist bone. The bullet transited the first gelatin block and penetrated deep into the second block and struck the animal bones. It emerged markedly more deformed than CE 399.

-- In Lattimer's SBT test, one of the test bullets was split at the nose in several places and was markedly deformed, much more deformed than CE 399, and this wasn't even one of the bullets that struck all three simulation objects! Lattimer threw away all the bullets that hit all three simulation objects. Gee, I wonder why.

I should add that Fackler's phony SBT test also failed to include a simulated human thigh and made no effort to see if any of his test bullets could penetrate a human thigh after shattering a cadaver radius bone.

Yet, SBT believers still cite Fackler's bogus test as "evidence" that the SBT is credible. Some even go further into fiction and claim that Fackler's test "proves" the SBT is true.

This reminds me of when Dr. Cyril Wecht challenged the other members of the HSCA FPP (1) to produce a single case where an FMJ bullet had done the damage attributed to CE 399 and emerged with its lands and grooves intact and with a loss of only 3-4 grains from its substance, and (2) to conduct a realistic SBT test. The other FPP members never did present a single case that resembled the SBT, and they refused to conduct an SBT test.





 

[Jack Nessan]

I should add that Fackler's phony SBT test also failed to include a simulated human thigh and made no effort to see if any of his test bullets could penetrate a human thigh after shattering a cadaver radius bone.

Yet, SBT believers still cite Fackler's bogus test as "evidence" that the SBT is credible. Some even go further into fiction and claim that Fackler's test "proves" the SBT is true.

This reminds me of when Dr. Cyril Wecht challenged the other members of the HSCA FPP (1) to produce a single case where an FMJ bullet had done the damage attributed to CE 399 and emerged with its lands and grooves intact and with a loss of only 3-4 grains from its substance, and (2) to conduct a realistic SBT test. The other FPP members never did present a single case that resembled the SBT, and they refused to conduct an SBT test.

This reminds me of when Dr. Cyril Wecht challenged the other members of the HSCA FPP (1) to produce a single case where an FMJ bullet had done the damage attributed to CE 399

Can it be assumed that Wecht's challenge would be specific to bullets designed similar to the carcano bullet with all the same flight characteristics before and after striking various mediums. 

Didn’t the carcano hit on several sides instead of all impacts occurring just directly point on. Is that not the reason that the bullet looks the way it does?

 
 
 
 

[Michael T. Griffith]

This reminds me of when Dr. Cyril Wecht challenged the other members of the HSCA FPP (1) to produce a single case where an FMJ bullet had done the damage attributed to CE 399

Can it be assumed that Wecht's challenge would be specific to bullets designed similar to the carcano bullet with all the same flight characteristics before and after striking various mediums.

Yes. As I said, "to produce a single case where an FMJ bullet had done the damage attributed to CE 399" and emerged with its lands and grooves intact and losing only 3-4 grains of its substance.

Didn’t the carcano hit on several sides instead of all impacts occurring just directly point on. Is that not the reason that the bullet looks the way it does?

The bullet that hit Connally's back destroyed 5 inches of rib bone before it exited his chest and before it allegedly smashed his right radius bone, exited the radius bone, and penetrated his left thigh. No bullet in any SBT test has done such damage and emerged looking anything like CE 399.

Even in the 1967 CBS SBT test, FMJ bullets that merely penetrated a 12-inch gelatin block before hitting a cadaver radius bone were unable to penetrate the simulated thigh, and many of them never even exited the cadaver radius bone. One of the expert forensic consultants for the CBS test, Dr. W. F. Enos, said the CBS test "disproved" the SBT and that the SBT was "highly improbable" (Mal Jay Hayman, Burying the Lead: The Media and the JFK Assassination, Trine Day LLC, 2019, pp. 214, 218).

[Jack Nessan]

Yes. As I said, "to produce a single case where an FMJ bullet had done the damage attributed to CE 399" and emerged with its lands and grooves intact and losing only 3-4 grains of its substance.

The bullet that hit Connally's back destroyed 5 inches of rib bone before it exited his chest and before it allegedly smashed his right radius bone, exited the radius bone, and penetrated his left thigh. No bullet in any SBT test has done such damage and emerged looking anything like CE 399.

Even in the 1967 CBS SBT test, FMJ bullets that merely penetrated a 12-inch gelatin block before hitting a cadaver radius bone were unable to penetrate the simulated thigh, and many of them never even exited the cadaver radius bone. One of the expert forensic consultants for the CBS test, Dr. W. F. Enos, said the CBS test "disproved" the SBT and that the SBT was "highly improbable" (Mal Jay Hayman, Burying the Lead: The Media and the JFK Assassination, Trine Day LLC, 2019, pp. 214, 218).

Sounds incredible but it really did happen. There has to be reasons it did take place.

Is there another case or is this the only one? If you know of another one cite it. 

Shooting a bullet full on into a wrist instead of yawing and tumbling produced what result?? Didn’t the bullet peel off the flesh along the rib bone while sliding sideways and then exited the chest sideways before it crashed into the wrist? 

 

 
 

[Michael T. Griffith]

Sounds incredible but it really did happen. There has to be reasons it did take place.

Is there another case or is this the only one? If you know of another one cite it. 

Shooting a bullet full on into a wrist instead of yawing and tumbling produced what result?? Didn’t the bullet peel off the flesh along the rib bone while sliding sideways and then exited the chest sideways before it crashed into the wrist?

Think about what you're saying: If a bullet sliding sideways scraped a rib bone hard enough to destroy 5 inches of the bone, the bullet's lands and grooves would certainly suffer at least some deformation. Yet, CE 399's lands and grooves remained intact.

Beyond that, ask yourself, How would a bullet entering the back at a perpendicular angle manage to suddenly slide sideways along the horizontal plane of a rib bone? And how would such a bullet then exit the chest after traveling sideways along the horizontal plane of a rib bone for 5 inches? A modern guided missile would find it impossible to perform such a feat of sudden turns in such a comparatively short space.

CBS and Fackler knew that including cadaver rib bones in their SBT tests would produce deformed bullets, which is why they ensured that their tests did not include such bones. At least the CBS SBT test included a simulated human thigh, but not a single one of their bullets penetrated the thigh, and some of them didn't even leave the cadaver wrists, even though they didn't have to shatter 5 inches of rib bone before striking the wrists.

Again, in the WC's wound ballistics SBT test, even FMJ bullets fired into cotton wadding emerged with more deformation than CE 399.

[Jack Nessan]

Think about what you're saying: If a bullet sliding sideways scraped a rib bone hard enough to destroy 5 inches of the bone, the bullet's lands and grooves would certainly suffer at least some deformation. Yet, CE 399's lands and grooves remained intact.

Beyond that, ask yourself, How would a bullet entering the back at a perpendicular angle manage to suddenly slide sideways along the horizontal plane of a rib bone? And how would such a bullet then exit the chest after traveling sideways along the horizontal plane of a rib bone for 5 inches? A modern guided missile would find it impossible to perform such a feat of sudden turns in such a comparatively short space.

CBS and Fackler knew that including cadaver rib bones in their SBT tests would produce deformed bullets, which is why they ensured that their tests did not include such bones. At least the CBS SBT test included a simulated human thigh, but not a single one of their bullets penetrated the thigh, and some of them didn't even leave the cadaver wrists, even though they didn't have to shatter 5 inches of rib bone before striking the wrists.

Again, in the WC's wound ballistics SBT test, even FMJ bullets fired into cotton wadding emerged with more deformation than CE 399.

So, you are thinking if LHO had been in a slightly different location, then the different bullet’s trajectory through JFK’s neck would have placed the bullet striking JBC in a different location and resulting in striking a much thicker rib bone than the thin fifth rib and changing the resulting damage to the bullet?

The bullet exiting JBC’s chest relatively intact is not your issue? Your thinking a jacketed metal bullet should have the identifying marks wiped clean while sliding along soft bone?  The bullet then proceeded to the wrist at a much-reduced speed. It still had enough momentum to pass through the wrist again at an angle or even backwards and then barely embedded itself in his thigh. You have a problem with this why? How should the bullet have looked?

Your only issue with this is how the bullet looked, even though it is obviously deformed?

The biggest problem with this whole train of thought is when conducting tests how do you fire a bullet out of a barrel of a rifle at a reduced velocity and also sideways or various angles to boot to be able to duplicate the deformation of the bullet along with the various injuries sustained? 

[Michael T. Griffith]

So, you are thinking if LHO had been in a slightly different location, then the different bullet’s trajectory through JFK’s neck would have placed the bullet striking JBC in a different location and resulting in striking a much thicker rib bone than the thin fifth rib and changing the resulting damage to the bullet?

No bullet exited JFK's throat. We know that because there was no hole through JFK's tie. No bullet exiting the shirt slits could have missed tearing through the middle of the bottom part of the tie knot, and no bullet could have magically weaved around the body of the knot to nick the top of the knot near the knot's left edge. That is Alice in Wonderland material.

We also know that no bullet exited the slits. Three Parkland doctors confirmed that the throat wound was above the collar/tie, so the slits could not have been the exit point in the shirt for a bullet exiting the throat wound. Also, no fabric was missing from the slits, and no metallic traces were found them. One of the Parkland nurses confirmed that the nurses made the slits, which explains why the jagged edges of a sharp scalpel can be seen in the slits under high magnification, as confirmed by Weisberg and then by Mantik.

The 2023 Knott Laboratory SBT trajectory analysis, the most sophisticated SBT analysis ever done, proves the SBT is impossible.

Are you familiar with any of the considerable evidence, including new evidence developed by Barry Ernest, that Oswald was not on the sixth floor during the shooting but was downstairs eating lunch and watching the motorcade, just as he told the police? 

The bullet exiting JBC’s chest relatively intact is not your issue? Your thinking a jacketed metal bullet should have the identifying marks wiped clean while sliding along soft bone?  The bullet then proceeded to the wrist at a much-reduced speed. It still had enough momentum to pass through the wrist again at an angle or even backwards and then barely embedded itself in his thigh. You have a problem with this why? How should the bullet have looked?

Did you simply forget the facts I've pointed out in my previous four replies when you wrote this? Every single SBT wound ballistics test has failed to duplicate the SBT, either because they failed to simulate key parts of the bullet's alleged journey or because the bullets emerged much more deformed than CE 399. Furthermore, no one has yet produced a single documented forensic case where a bullet did the damage attributed to CE 399 and emerged in the same condition.

Your only issue with this is how the bullet looked, even though it is obviously deformed?

Seriously? Please re-read my previous four replies. CE 399 is only slightly deformed at its base. Its nose is pristine. Its lands and grooves are intact. It is missing only 3-4 grains of its substance. Deep down, somewhere in your mind, you must know that no bullet could emerge in this condition after penetrating seven layers of skin, smashing 5 inches of rib bone, and shattering a radius bone.

The biggest problem with this whole train of thought is when conducting tests how do you fire a bullet out of a barrel of a rifle at a reduced velocity and also sideways or various angles to boot to be able to duplicate the deformation of the bullet along with the various injuries sustained?

Again, did you simply forget the facts I've presented in my previous replies when you wrote your response? You simply refuse to consider cold hard facts that destroy your SBT fantasy.