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Author Topic: Oswald fingerprints on the live shell?  (Read 5763 times)

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Oswald fingerprints on the live shell?
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2018, 06:55:52 PM »
As I figured, you have NONE. No surprise there since the evidence shows that Day lifted nothing off of CE 139.

Tom Alyea wrote:

Shortly after we arrived back on the 6th floor, Deputy Eugene Boone located the assassin's rifle almost completely hidden by some overhanging boxes near the stairwell. I filmed it as it was found. In my shot, the figure of Captain Fritz is standing within the enclosure next to the rifle. He knew then that the possibility of a fire fight with the sniper had greatly diminished. He dispatched one of his men to go down and call for the crime lab. About fifteen minutes later, Lt. Day and Studebaker arrived. Still pictures were taken of the positioning of the rifle, then Lt. Day slid it out from its hiding place and held it up for all of us to see. The world has seen my shot of this many times. Lt. Day immediately turned toward the window behind him and started dusting the weapon for fingerprints. Day was still within the enclosure formed by the surrounding boxes. I filmed him lifting prints from the rifle. He lifted them off with scotch tape and placed them on little white cards.


We know that only partial prints were found on the rifle's trigger guard and Day did not lift those partial prints...He merely placed cellophane tape on them to protect them from being damaged before he could examine them in the police lab.  So that cannot be what Alyea saw Day lift and place on white card......

What print do we have that might be the one that Alyea saw Day lift??

The only print of a lift is the so called "palm print" ( CE 634) and it was listed on the evidence list of the evidence that was turned over to the FBI at midnight.

The story of detective Day disassembling the rifle and discovering a palm print on the small diameter metal barrel is simply a fabrication and a damned lie.....     

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Re: Oswald fingerprints on the live shell?
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2018, 06:55:52 PM »


Online Jack Trojan

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  • Thomas Arthur Vallee
Re: Oswald fingerprints on the live shell?
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2018, 09:25:29 PM »
How does the infrequency of Oswald's prints compare to someone who was actually there and did the deed? The only explanation for you LNers is that Oswald must have worn gloves. So are you sticking with that?

Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Oswald fingerprints on the live shell?
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2018, 10:32:43 PM »
How does the infrequency of Oswald's prints compare to someone who was actually there and did the deed? The only explanation for you LNers is that Oswald must have worn gloves. So are you sticking with that?

What do criminologists and forensic scientists say about finding identifiable prints on weapons? Or in general at crime scenes? . Let's limit it to firearms since that's the issue you raised. Not only today but fifty plus years ago? This is not the movies; this is real life.

So, what do the experts say? Have you researched the issue? Yes, this is a challenge because I've read what they say. And you won't like it.

For example, from a 1997 article published in "The Journal of Forensic Identification":
"Latent fingerprint examiners generally know that even when cutting edge technology such as cyanoacrylate fuming and laser/forensic light source examination are utilized, successful development of latent prints on firearms is difficult to achieve. In reality, very few identifiable latent prints are found on firearms, a fact that has been discussed in both the literature and the judicial system."

And that's not an anecdote.




« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 11:34:42 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Online Jack Trojan

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Re: Oswald fingerprints on the live shell?
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2018, 12:21:02 AM »
What do criminologists and forensic scientists say about finding identifiable prints on weapons? Or in general at crime scenes? . Let's limit it to firearms since that's the issue you raised. Not only today but fifty plus years ago? This is not the movies; this is real life.

So, what do the experts say? Have you researched the issue? Yes, this is a challenge because I've read what they say. And you won't like it.

For example, from a 1997 article published in "The Journal of Forensic Identification":
"Latent fingerprint examiners generally know that even when cutting edge technology such as cyanoacrylate fuming and laser/forensic light source examination are utilized, successful development of latent prints on firearms is difficult to achieve. In reality, very few identifiable latent prints are found on firearms, a fact that has been discussed in both the literature and the judicial system."

And that's not an anecdote.

So that explains why Oswald didn't leave a single print on the stock, barrel, trigger, clip, ammo and scope of the MC after he disassembled then reassembled it in the TSBD. Is that what those latent fingerprint examiners are suggesting or are you?

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Oswald fingerprints on the live shell?
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2018, 12:36:19 PM »
So that explains why Oswald didn't leave a single print on the stock, barrel, trigger, clip, ammo and scope of the MC after he disassembled then reassembled it in the TSBD. Is that what those latent fingerprint examiners are suggesting or are you?

Lee Oswald didn't leave a print on the stock, barrel, trigger, clip, ammo or scope of the MC after he disassembled then reassembled it in the TSBD.....because he never disassembled or reassembled that Carcano that day.

If anybody has solid proof that Lee Oswald handled that Carcano that day, then please... please....   present the proof.

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Re: Oswald fingerprints on the live shell?
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2018, 12:36:19 PM »


Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Oswald fingerprints on the live shell?
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2018, 12:43:45 PM »
As I figured, you have NONE. No surprise there since the evidence shows that Day lifted nothing off of CE 139.

Tom Alyea wrote:

"Shortly after we arrived back on the 6th floor, Deputy Eugene Boone located the assassin's rifle almost completely hidden by some overhanging boxes near the stairwell. I filmed it as it was found. In my shot, the figure of Captain Fritz is standing within the enclosure next to the rifle. He knew then that the possibility of a fire fight with the sniper had greatly diminished. He dispatched one of his men to go down and call for the crime lab. About fifteen minutes later, Lt. Day and Studebaker arrived. Still pictures were taken of the positioning of the rifle, then Lt. Day slid it out from its hiding place and held it up for all of us to see. The world has seen my shot of this many times. Lt. Day immediately turned toward the window behind him and started dusting the weapon for fingerprints. Day was still within the enclosure formed by the surrounding boxes. I FILMED HIM LIFTING PRINTS FROM THE RIFLE He lifted them off with scotch tape and placed them on little white cards."

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Oswald fingerprints on the live shell?
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2018, 04:23:28 PM »
He dispatched one of his men to go down and call for the crime lab. About fifteen minutes later, Lt. Day and Studebaker arrived.

But Day/Studebaker were already there in the SN...

Yes, You're right...I think Alyea mixed up the chronology.....or Alyea simply used the wrong words.

"He knew then that the possibility of a fire fight with the sniper had greatly diminished. He dispatched one of his men to go down and call for the crime lab. About fifteen minutes later, Lt. Day and Studebaker arrived."

I believe that Alyea probably didn't know that Day & Studebaker were the men who Fritz was requesting when he heard Fritz tell a subordinate to get the crime lab detectives on the scene.....   


Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Oswald fingerprints on the live shell?
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2018, 06:12:55 PM »
I believe that Alyea probably didn't know that Day & Studebaker were the men who Fritz was requesting when he heard Fritz tell a subordinate to get the crime lab detectives on the scene.....

Maybe...but the rifle was found by the stairwell so he got both the man going down wrong and the timing wrong, and in response to Tony:

(Version 1)
Mr. BALL. When the rifle was found, were you there?
Mr. SIMS.  No, sir; we were still on the sixth floor where the hulls were, I believe.
Mr. BALL. Did you see anyone pick the rifle up off the floor?
Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir; I believe Lieutenant Day--he dusted the rifle there for fingerprints.
Mr. BALL. And did you see Fritz do anything?
Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir; he took it and ejected a live round of ammunition out of the rifle.
Mr. BALL. Do you know who took possession of that live round?
Mr. SIMS. No, sir; I don't.


(Version 2 - memory fix by Fritz)
Mr. BELIN. Now what caused you to remember now what you actually did with the hulls? I mean, what refreshed your recollection as to that?
Mr. SIMS. Talked to Captain Fritz, and I remember we was going over to where the rifle, someone had found the rifle in the meantime, and we was walking over to where the rifle was found, and he told me to be sure and get the hulls.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do then?
Mr. SIMS. Well, I went over to where the rifle was found, and went back later to where the hulls were.
Mr. BELIN. Were the hulls still in the location you left them for being dusted for fingerprints?
Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir; they were still taking pictures.
Mr. BELIN. Were they still taking pictures, or dusting them?
Mr. SIMS. I hadn't picked them up. They were still, as far as I can remember, taking pictures, because Captain Fritz left two officers to preserve the scene.
Mr. BELIN. When you got back, what did you do after they got through with the pictures?
Mr. SIMS. When he got through with the scenery I picked the hulls up.
Mr. BELIN. Was it then that he dusted them, or what?
Mr.s. SIMS. Yes, sir.


Versus
Mr. DAY. I released them to Detective Sims or rather he took them.
Mr. BELIN. And then what did you do?
Mr. DAY. At that time I was summoned to the northwest corner of the building.


Maybe...but the rifle was found by the stairwell so he got both the man going down wrong and the timing wrong, and in response to Tony:

I know that Tom Alyea was not 100% accurate in recalling the event to mind.....No doubt about that,because he said that Seymour Weitzman wasn't there on the sixth floor.... and Weitzman definitely was there.

And he thinks that Lee Oswald was guilty even though he KNOWS without any doubt that the Dallas Police created fake photos and presented those fakes as evidence against Lee Oswald.  He has clearly stated that he abhors the lies that the DPD created.  Any thinking, reasonable person with his knowledge should  have serious doubts about Lee Oswald's guilt.

But the only point I'm attempting to show at this time is the FACT... FACT... that Tom Alyea watched detective Day as he LIFTED the  the so called "palm print"  quote: " lifted off underside gun barrel near end of foregrip  C 2766  " unquote. 

This lays bare one of the key lies that Tom Alyea abhors....The lie that detective Day disassembled the rifle and found a palm print on the small 5/8" diameter ( diameter of a AA penlight battery) .   Day found a Smudge on the underside of the WOODEN foregrip  that he though might be a palm print and he lifted that smudge as Tom Alyea watched....

The FBI received that 3 X 5 white card on Saturday 11/23/63 and reported that the smudge was unidentifiable as a palm print and it was useless for identification purposes.

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Re: Oswald fingerprints on the live shell?
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2018, 06:12:55 PM »


Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Oswald fingerprints on the live shell?
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2018, 08:26:21 PM »
But the only point I'm attempting to show at this time is the FACT... FACT... that Tom Alyea watched detective Day as he LIFTED the  the so called "palm print"  quote: " lifted off underside gun barrel near end of foregrip  C 2766  " unquote.

Understood, adding this to the equation (prints on trigger guard):

Mr. LATONA. No, sir ; I don't think so. In fact, I think we got the prints just like they were. There had, in addition to this rifle and that paper bag, which I received on the 23d--there had also been submitted to me some photographs which had been taken by the Dallas Police Department, at least alleged to have been taken by them, of these prints on this trigger guard which they developed. I examined the photographs very closely and I still could not determine any latent value in the photograph. [...]

Why would they pass those photographs on with the rifle but NOT the actual lift by Day?


Good point!.....But the evidence inventory list that was typed up that night  DOES list the "partial palm print"....so we know that the story about detective Day disassembling the rifle and discovering the palm print is a crock! 

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Oswald fingerprints on the live shell?
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2018, 02:07:43 PM »
Alyea did what he was told as he relied on the DPD's approval for a good bit of his work. Haven't you ever wondered why he was the only one allowed in and film?

There was no evidence for Day's claim.

Haven't you ever wondered why he was the only one allowed in and film?

Yes I have.....But if you are implying that Tom Alyea was a nefarious part of the conspiracy or the cover up, I certainly would disagree.    Alyea seems to be a bit confused about the case....He definitely has exhibited his lack of solid reasoning and commonsense.

I think the fact that he was in the TSBD at the time the planted evidence was being discovered is probably one of those cases where a person just happens to be in the right place at the right time.

There was no evidence for Day's claim.

What claim?

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Re: Oswald fingerprints on the live shell?
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2018, 02:07:43 PM »


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