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Author Topic: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD  (Read 3835 times)

Online John Mytton

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2018, 11:34:50 PM »
On October 4, 1963, Oswald applied for a job as a “typesetter trainee” at the Padgett Printing Company in Dallas and was turned down because (the bottom of the application reads) “Bob Stovall [the president of Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall, where Oswald previously worked] does not recommend this man. He was released [there] because of his record as a troublemaker.” Stovall also informed Padgett that Oswald had “communistic tendencies.”59       


If Oswald was the scheduled hit man in a conspiracy to murder Kennedy, why would those behind him (CIA, mob, FBI, etc.) have him apply for a job just seven weeks before the assassination that wasn’t on the presidential motorcade route and would never be? Padgett Printing is located today where it was back in 1963, at 1313 North Industrial Boulevard in Dallas, a boulevard of light industry and no tall office buildings, where large crowds of people would be nonexistent. After the presidential limousine was scheduled to get off Elm Street onto the Stemmons Freeway en route to the Trade Mart, North Industrial Boulevard, to the west of the freeway, would be running roughly parallel to it, including the location at 1313 North Industrial Boulevard. However, per Dave Torok, president of Padgett Printing, the company’s building has always been only one story, and the Stemmons Freeway, he said, “is a good half mile away, and you can’t see it from our building, even from the roof.”60       

The point, of course, is that if Padgett Printing Company had hired Oswald on October 4, Kennedy would not have been a target for Oswald to shoot and kill on November 22. And if Oswald were scheduled to be the hit man for the conspiracy to murder Kennedy, why would his employers (CIA, mob, etc.) have him apply for a job that, if he were hired, would eliminate him as their chosen assassin?

But there’s more bad news for the poor, hapless conspiracy theorists, who would gladly settle for anything real, no matter how small, to keep their hopes alive, instead of getting hit with one haymaker after another to their dreams. On October 8, the Texas Employment Commission (TEC) sent Oswald out for a job interview at the Solid State Electronics Company of Texas. He didn’t get the job because the company was looking for a sales clerk, and he had no experience that qualified him for that position. “I sure would like to have the job,” he told James Hunter of Solid State, who interviewed him. “Every place I go they want experience.”61 And again, the problem for the theorists is that Solid State was located at 2647 Myrtle Springs in Dallas, out beyond Parkland Hospital and nowhere near the motorcade route.       

The next day, October 9, the TEC sent Oswald to the Burton-Dixie Corporation for a job as a clerk trainee. Emmett Hobson at Burton-Dixie knows that the company didn’t hire Oswald, but told the FBI he didn’t recall why, and could not recall the background information Oswald had given him. Burton-Dixie was located at 817 Corinth in Dallas, an industrial area near Oak Cliff, which again, unfortunately for the buffs, was nowhere near the motorcade route.62        On October 14, Oswald applied for a job at the Wiener Lumber Company in Dallas. The proprietor, Sam Wiener, was impressed with Oswald as a prospective employee until Oswald was asked to show his Honorable Discharge Card, which Oswald, of course, was unable to do. In the “Remarks” section of Oswald’s application, Wiener typed, “Although this man makes an excellent appearance and seems quite intelligent he seemed unable to understand when I continually and clearly asked him for his honorable discharge card or papers for the latest (just ended) hitch. I believe he does not have [it] and will not get such a card or paper. Do not consider for this reason only.”       

The lumber company was at the corner of Inwood Road and Maple Avenue, near Love Field, so was close to the motorcade route, but again, not on it. The closest that the president’s motorcade came to this location was at the intersection of Lemmon Avenue and Inwood Road, a little more than three-quarters of a mile from Wiener Lumber.63       

Again, the fact, alone, that Oswald was applying for jobs up through October 14 at locations not on the motorcade route virtually precludes the notion of conspiracy among rational people.
RHVB






JohnM
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 11:36:53 PM by John Mytton »

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2018, 11:34:50 PM »


Online Joe Elliott

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2018, 11:40:51 PM »

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A real world conspiracy to assassinate the US President.

John Wilkes Booth was employed at the Ford Theatre and collected his mail there.

Booth learned of Lincoln's attendance at the theatre that morning.....


The logic of the LN argument falls at the first hurdle.



A false example. There was not a conspiracy to use John Wilkes Booth to assassinate President Lincoln. And then, after Booth was selected to be part of this conspiracy, he fell into a job at the Ford theatre, giving himself the perfect opportunity to murder President Lincoln.


Also, it is possible that one of the reasons Booth first thought about kidnapping and possibility killing President Lincoln was that he knew that his employment at Ford’s Theatre might someday provide him with a perfect opportunity. He surely knew that President Lincoln sometimes visited the Ford Theatre. Had he not been a famous actor, he, like thousands of others, may have hated Lincoln but maybe would never have taken any concrete steps to try to murder him.


The assassins Booth and Oswald were similar to each other. Each were lucky enough to have the President pass by or visit a place they worked at or used to work at. The only difference is that Booth had enough fame and wealth to recruit others into his plan, making it a conspiracy. But both were fundamentally ‘Lone Nuts’. Except Booth, after first becoming a ‘Lone Nut’, was able to recruit others.

Online Colin Crow

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2018, 12:29:01 AM »
The assassination took place at workplaces of the assassin. The decision to assassinate Lincoln at the Ford theatre only occurred hours before the assassination. It was a conspiracy.

Offline Richard Smith

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2018, 12:34:09 AM »
Nothing has to add up for a closet CTer like Martin.  Like Sgt. Schultz he feigns to know nothing about a conspiracy while taking issue with all the evidence against Oswald. Does he believe the evidence proves Oswald ordered a MC rifle and was sent such a rifle with a specific serial number in March '63?  No.  But here we learn he believes any conspiracy didn't begin before Oct '63.  So all the allegedly faked documents and BY photos relating to the rifle are left unexplained.  Martin is just playing the lazy contrarian always arguing the evidence is deficient to his impossible subjective standard of proof so he never has to support anything.  It just happens that the evidence he takes issue with is always that of Oswald's guilt.   When Marina looks into the blanket and says she saw a "rifle" Martin interprets this to mean she saw some unspecified object made of wood.  LOL.  You can't make that sort of nonsense up.  But remember he is not alleging anything like a conspiracy that requires proof or at least a coherent narrative!  Oswald apparently just has the worst luck of anyone in history to be caught up in this plot like Mr. Magoo while going about his life in blissful ignorance.

Online Joe Elliott

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2018, 12:54:39 AM »

As I predicted, Martin Weidmann has dodge my two questions. So, I will answer them for him.


Question 1:

Name me one real world plot that did work this way. Bypassing opportunities time and time again until they somehow found the perfect patsy, within one month.



No, Martin cannot name another such murder plot. Where someone was first selected to take part in a murder plot. And then they lucked into a job that gave them a good opportunity to commit the murder. Nor can anyone else name one.

Colin presented the Lincoln assassination as such a case, but this is false. Booth was not selected to take part in a plot to murder President Lincoln. And then lucked into a job as an actor in the Ford Theatre. Presenting him with a perfect opportunity to murder the President.

Instead, things happened in this order:

1.   Booth became a famous actor.


2.   Lincoln was elected President.


3.   Booth started acting, some of the time, within Washington D. C. Possibly, he could have chosen to act in other theatres, with other acting groups, but chose an acting company that performed in Washington D. C.


4.   Booth used his past employment at the Ford Theatre to murder President Lincoln.

The only parallel is that Booth was part of a conspiracy, but Booth was the recruiter of others in a plot, first to kidnap Lincoln and later to murder him. He started out as a lone nut.



Neither Martin nor Colin has given an example, in all history, of a conspiracy to commit a murder, recruited the assassin and/or patsy, or multiple assassins and/or patsies and waited from one of them to luck into a job that gives them a good opportunity to murder the President, or to be framed for doing so.





Question 2:

Name me one major CT book that makes this argument. That Oswald was not part of the plot all along but was chosen no earlier than mid-October 1963?



No one has come up with such a book.

Basically, CTers argue that Oswald was part of the conspiracy for several years. In the Marines, sent to the U. S. S. R., ordered to do suspicious things once he returned. But, when problems come up with his, they temporarily suggest that he was, or perhaps was, selected as part of the conspiracy a month before the assassination.

Honest arguments don’t argue things both ways. They have simply present the most likely scenario. And stick to it.

But if no good scenario can be found, they develop arguments that have schizophrenia. There is no solid scenario. Scenario A is first presented. When problems are pointed out to it, they switch to Scenario B. When problems are point out to it, they switch back to Scenario A.

Hence, after over 50 years, CTers have no coherent scenario. Oswald was part of this conspiracy for months or years. Although, to deal with logical problems with this, one could temporarily adopt the position that maybe he wasn’t. But basically, think that he was, or probably was.

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2018, 12:54:39 AM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2018, 12:55:49 AM »
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Nothing has to add up for a closet CTer like Martin.  Like Sgt. Schultz he feigns to know nothing about a conspiracy while taking issue with all the evidence against Oswald. Does he believe the evidence proves Oswald ordered a MC rifle and was sent such a rifle with a specific serial number in March '63?  No.  But here we learn he believes any conspiracy didn't begin before Oct '63.  So all the allegedly faked documents and BY photos relating to the rifle are left unexplained.  Martin is just playing the lazy contrarian always arguing the evidence is deficient to his impossible subjective standard of proof so he never has to support anything.  It just happens that the evidence he takes issue with is always that of Oswald's guilt.   When Marina looks into the blanket and says she saw a "rifle" Martin interprets this to mean she saw some unspecified object made of wood.  LOL.  You can't make that sort of nonsense up.  But remember he is not alleging anything like a conspiracy that requires proof or at least a coherent narrative!  Oswald apparently just has the worst luck of anyone in history to be caught up in this plot like Mr. Magoo while going about his life in blissful ignorance.


But here we learn he believes any conspiracy didn't begin before Oct '63.

There are two possibilities here; either you have great difficulty understanding what I have written or you are just a plain liar who makes up stuff. Either way; I never said it.

BY photos relating to the rifle are left unexplained.

Another lie. I am on record as saying that I believe the BY photos are probably authentic. Since I am no photographic expert and never saw the originals of the photos, that's the best I can conclude. I just don't attach the same significance to the photos as you do.

always arguing the evidence is deficient to his impossible subjective standard of proof so he never has to support anything. It just happens that the evidence he takes issue with is always that of Oswald's guilt. 

I am not here to support anything. I don't have a theory, I don't really care if Oswald did it, did it alone or if there was a conspiracy and the evidence being discussed here just happens to be predominantly material used to support the claim of Oswald's guilt. You just don't like that I find the evidence less persuasive than you do. But truth be told, your constant complaining like a cry-baby that I do not agree with you is getting pretty tiresome.

When Marina looks into the blanket and says she saw a "rifle" Martin interprets this to mean she saw some unspecified object made of wood.  LOL.

Another misrepresentation, or shall I just call them outright lies from now on. I don't interpret anything of the kind.

In her testimony, Marina was told there was a rifle in the blanket. Rankin treated it as a given;

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever check to see whether the rifle was in the blanket?
Mrs. OSWALD. I never checked to see that. There was only once that 1 was interested in finding out what was in that blanket, and I saw that it was a rifle.
Mr. RANKIN. When was that?
Mrs. OSWALD. About a week after I came from New Orleans.
Mr. RANKIN. And then you found that the rifle was in the blanket, did you?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, 1 saw the wooden part of it, the wooden stock.


Marina herself saw the wooden part of it. I just take her by her word.

But remember he is not alleging anything like a conspiracy that requires proof or at least a coherent narrative!

At least I don't have to lie or misrepresent stuff, as you do constantly.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 01:24:38 AM by Martin Weidmann »

Online John Mytton

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2018, 01:03:13 AM »
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When Marina looks into the blanket and says she saw a "rifle" Martin interprets this to mean she saw some unspecified object made of wood.  LOL.

Another misrepresentation, or shall I just call them outright lies from now on. I don't interpret anything of the kind.

In her testimony, Marina was told there was a rifle in the blanket. Rankin treated it as a given;

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever check to see whether the rifle was in the blanket?
Mrs. OSWALD. I never checked to see that. There was only once that 1 was interested in finding out what was in that blanket, and I saw that it was a rifle.
Mr. RANKIN. When was that?
Mrs. OSWALD. About a week after I came from New Orleans.
Mr. RANKIN. And then you found that the rifle was in the blanket, did you?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, 1 saw the wooden part of it, the wooden stock.


Marina herself saw the wooden part of it. I just take her by her word.






A rifle?




A rifle?





JohnM
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 01:38:23 AM by John Mytton »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2018, 01:05:29 AM »
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As I predicted, Martin Weidmann has dodge my two questions. So, I will answer them for him.

Question 1:

Name me one real world plot that did work this way. Bypassing opportunities time and time again until they somehow found the perfect patsy, within one month.



No, Martin cannot name another such murder plot. Where someone was first selected to take part in a murder plot. And then they lucked into a job that gave them a good opportunity to commit the murder. Nor can anyone else name one.

Colin presented the Lincoln assassination as such a case, but this is false. Booth was not selected to take part in a plot to murder President Lincoln. And then lucked into a job as an actor in the Ford Theatre. Presenting him with a perfect opportunity to murder the President.

Instead, things happened in this order:

1.   Booth became a famous actor.


2.   Lincoln was elected President.


3.   Booth started acting, some of the time, within Washington D. C. Possibly, he could have chosen to act in other theatres, with other acting groups, but chose an acting company that performed in Washington D. C.


4.   Booth used his past employment at the Ford Theatre to murder President Lincoln.

The only parallel is that Booth was part of a conspiracy, but Booth was the recruiter of others in a plot, first to kidnap Lincoln and later to murder him. He started out as a lone nut.

Neither Martin nor Colin has given an example, in all history, of a conspiracy to commit a murder, recruited the assassin and/or patsy, or multiple assassins and/or patsies and waited from one of them to luck into a job that gives them a good opportunity to murder the President, or to be framed for doing so.

Question 2:

Name me one major CT book that makes this argument. That Oswald was not part of the plot all along but was chosen no earlier than mid-October 1963?


No one has come up with such a book.

Basically, CTers argue that Oswald was part of the conspiracy for several years. In the Marines, sent to the U. S. S. R., ordered to do suspicious things once he returned. But, when problems come up with his, they temporarily suggest that he was, or perhaps was, selected as part of the conspiracy a month before the assassination.

Honest arguments don’t argue things both ways. They have simply present the most likely scenario. And stick to it.

But if no good scenario can be found, they develop arguments that have schizophrenia. There is no solid scenario. Scenario A is first presented. When problems are pointed out to it, they switch to Scenario B. When problems are point out to it, they switch back to Scenario A.

Hence, after over 50 years, CTers have no coherent scenario. Oswald was part of this conspiracy for months or years. Although, to deal with logical problems with this, one could temporarily adopt the position that maybe he wasn’t. But basically, think that he was, or probably was.

As expected, you are having a conversation with yourself, repeating the same thing over and over again, and simply ignore what I have written in my reply. You are just playing pathetic games, asking nonsensical strawman questions and expecting a comprehensive reply on your terms, when you can't even define the term "part of a conspiracy".


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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2018, 01:05:29 AM »


Online Joe Elliott

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2018, 02:26:05 AM »

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As expected, you are having a conversation with yourself, repeating the same thing over and over again, and simply ignore what I have written in my reply. You are just playing pathetic games, asking nonsensical strawman questions and expecting a comprehensive reply on your terms, when you can't even define the term "part of a conspiracy".



Of course, people will repeat themselves when you dodge their questions. So, I will ask again, at the risk of repeating myself, when are you going to answer my questions one and two?



What does “part of a conspiracy” mean? With Oswald it means that Oswald was selected, unknowing or unknowingly to by the assassin or patsy in the conspiracy to murder President Kennedy.

In the case of any conspiracy it means someone who was selected to take part in it, to help the conspiracy to succeed or to act as a patsy. Such a person would be  “part of the conspiracy” whether they knew it or not.

Online Tom Sorensen

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2018, 06:43:16 AM »
Mr. RANKIN. And then you found that the rifle was in the blanket, did you?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, I saw the wooden part of it, the wooden stock.

If true she would have been A LOT smarter than Michael Paine.

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2018, 06:43:16 AM »