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Author Topic: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD  (Read 4815 times)

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2018, 08:50:27 PM »
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Martin, you seem to be a little bit agitated. You can get through it. Actually I play a real good game of chess. I'll play you any time you like. I'm sure we could figure out how to get that done. You really need to stop being in denial and except that you are a CT buff.


Martin, you seem to be a little bit agitated. You can get through it.

Funny... The truth is I just don't like guys much who think they know it all.

Actually I play a real good game of chess.

So far, there hasn't been much evidence of it on this board. You seem to plan ahead no more than one reply (which you likely have already prepared) when you ask a (mostly loaded) question. Considering options doesn't seem to be your forte.

But, then again, overestimation isn't uncommon amongst LNs...

You really need to stop being in denial and except that you are a CT buff.

Do you need this kind of crap to boost your ego?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 11:19:01 PM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2018, 08:50:27 PM »


Offline Wesley Johnson

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2018, 09:01:17 PM »
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Martin, you seem to be a little bit agitated. You can get through it.

Funny... The truth is I just don't like guys much how think they know it all.

Actually I play a real good game of chess.

So far, there hasn't been much evidence of it on this board. You seem to plan ahead no more than one reply (which you likely have already prepared) when you ask a (mostly loaded) question. Considering options doesn't seem to be your forte.

But, then again, overestimation isn't uncommon amongst LNs...

You really need to stop being in denial and except that you are a CT buff.

Do you need this kind of crap to boost your ego?


When are we playing?  ::)
 "The truth is I just don't like guys much how think they know it all."
Very funny Martin. That is what I think about most CTers. Ego plays no part Martin. It is just idle entertainment. When you get tired of walking the fence then maybe we could discuss some real evidence.

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2018, 09:05:11 PM »

Instead of being wishy washy, I would like Martin Weidmann to state:

** It is most probably that Oswald was, knowingly or unknowingly, part of the conspiracy before October 1963.

** It is most probably that Oswald was selected by the conspiracy to play his part after mid October 1963, based on where he worked and other factors that make him a plausible assassin.


Likely, Martin will not do so, because neither stand can really hold up. Both have serious problems. So, Oswald must forever remain in some sort of Quantum state. Maybe part of the conspiracy all along. Maybe not. This is how one holds onto bad theories.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2018, 09:10:33 PM »
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No, itís not LNers who imply this. It is what most CTers say. It is CTers who say that Oswald was working for the CIA:

** While in the Marines, working with radar.

** When he went to the Soviet Union.

** When he passed out pro Castro leaflets in New Orleans in the summer of 1963.


Iím not saying a conspiracy theory is impossible. Iím just saying a conspiracy theory that had Oswald as part of the plan before October 1963 makes no sense. Itís not my fault that CTers postulate a conspiracy that falls apart when the question of how Oswald got his job.

Iím just saying a conspiracy theory that had Oswald as part of the plan before October 1963 makes no sense.

I agree... if you consider Oswald to be the only possible patsy in play, that is.

Itís not my fault that CTers postulate a conspiracy that falls apart when the question of how Oswald got his job.

You've lost me there, but then I never postuated such a conspiracy in the first place.

Quote

Essentially, what CTers want, is to point out things that they say indicates that Oswald was working for the CIA for a long time. But then, when it is pointed out the problems this causes them, to suggest that maybe he wasnít. CTers want their cake and to eat it to. They want to argue that Oswald basically was working for the CIA while suggesting he wasnít to side step problems with logic that this causes them. And then go back to believing he was working for the CIA all along.



Essentially, what CTers want, is to point out things that they say indicates that Oswald was working for the CIA for a long time. But then, when it is pointed out the problems this causes them, to suggest that maybe he wasnít. CTers want their cake and to eat it to. They want to argue that Oswald basically was working for the CIA while suggesting he wasnít to side step problems with logic that this causes them. And then go back to believing he was working for the CIA all along.

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "working for the CIA", nor do I really see what logical problems it causes if he did.

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Plans based on hoping to find and identify someone who works along a motorcade route who:

** Works in an old, mostly empty building, on the edge of town, where there likely would be floor with no people.

** With an employee who has military training with a rifle.

** With the same employee having lived in the Soviet Union

** With the same employee recently passing out Pro Communist leaflets.

Are prone to failure. It would not be surprising such a plot would fail in Miami or Chicago or one hundred straight times. Real world plots donít work like this.


I agree, but then I don't believe that any conspiracy to kill the President would ever depend on such detailed requirements. If there was a conspiracy, it would IMO involve some highly skilled indivuals with a great deal of know how about how to operate. I seriously doubt they would let the execution of their plans depend on such minor issues.

One of the problems with this kind of stuff is that one is easily tempted to overthink things based on what one thinks to know, when reality (which is often stranger than fiction) is perhaps not so complicated at all.

Real world plots donít work like this.

Do you have much experience with "real world plots" or are you merely assuming (sorry, you likely call it "common sense") this?

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2018, 09:22:32 PM »
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Real world plots donít work like this.

Do you have much experience with "real world plots" or are you merely assuming (sorry, you likely call it "common sense") this?


I know of no real-world plots that worked this way.

Question 1:

Name me one real world plot that did work this way.

Question 2:

Name me one major CT book that makes this argument. That Oswald was not part of the plot all along but was chosen no earlier than mid-October 1963?



I expect you will dodge either Question 1 or 2, maybe both.

A conspiracy wanted to commit a crime. There were multiple opportunities to commit it. But they waited until the perfect patsy who just happened to be in the right place at the right time turned up.


Can you imagine a November 1963 CIA meeting with: ďOK. We have another motorcade going through Dallas. Give me a report on all people who work along the route. And have it on my desk by Monday morning.Ē
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 09:25:08 PM by Joe Elliott »

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2018, 09:22:32 PM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2018, 09:25:52 PM »
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Instead of being wishy washy, I would like Martin Weidmann to state:

** It is most probably that Oswald was, knowingly or unknowingly, part of the conspiracy before October 1963.

** It is most probably that Oswald was selected by the conspiracy to play his part after mid October 1963, based on where he worked and other factors that make him a plausible assassin.

Likely, Martin will not do so, because neither stand can really hold up. Both have serious problems. So, Oswald must forever remain in some sort of Quantum state. Maybe part of the conspiracy all along. Maybe not. This is how one holds onto bad theories.

neither stand can really hold up. Both have serious problems.

Pray tell, what are those serious problems? I'm interested to see how your mind works.

Maybe part of the conspiracy all along. Maybe not. This is how one holds onto bad theories.

What exactly does "part of the conspiracy" mean to you?

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2018, 09:38:46 PM »
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I know of no real-world plots that worked this way.

Question 1:

Name me one real world plot that did work this way.

Question 2:

Name me one major CT book that makes this argument. That Oswald was not part of the plot all along but was chosen no earlier than mid-October 1963?


I expect you will dodge either Question 1 or 2, maybe both.


The one dodging the question is you.

I asked you if you had much experience with "real world plots". I did not ask you about "plots that worked this way", whatever that means. 

You stated "Real world plots donít work like this" and the purpose of my question was to find out on what you based that claim. Telling me that you "don't know of no real-world plots that worked this way" is a meaningless statement which most certainly does not answer my question.

Quote

A conspiracy wanted to commit a crime. There were multiple opportunities to commit it. But they waited until the perfect patsy who just happened to be in the right place at the right time turned up.

Can you imagine a November 1963 CIA meeting with: ďOK. We have another motorcade going through Dallas. Give me a report on all people who work along the route. And have it on my desk by Monday morning.Ē


What is it with LNs and strawman arguments?

Where do you get that a conspiracy would have waited for the pefect patsy to be in the right place at the right time? Why do you assume that a conspiracy at that level (if there was one) would rely on just one scenario and just one possible patsy?

Some food for thought; eloborate magic tricks are impossible to understand and/or explain until they are explained to you and they suddenly become obvious and easy. What smoke and mirrors can't achieve, right?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 09:59:29 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2018, 09:59:06 PM »

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The one dodging the question is you.

I asked you if you had much experience with "real world plots". I did not ask you about "plots that worked this way", whatever that means. 



I have not been a part of any real-world plots. I have read about various conspiracies, but I donít know of any that work the way you postulate, finding the perfect patsy by accident.

There, I have answered your question.


Now, stop dodging my Questions 1 and 2. Or are you going to dodge them by asking another question.



Question 1:

Name me one real world plot that did work this way. Bypassing opportunities time and time again until they somehow found the perfect patsy, within one month.

Question 2:

Name me one major CT book that makes this argument. That Oswald was not part of the plot all along but was chosen no earlier than mid-October 1963?


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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2018, 09:59:06 PM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2018, 10:11:29 PM »
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I have not been a part of any real-world plots. I have read about various conspiracies, but I donít know of any that work the way you postulate, finding the perfect patsy by accident.


When did I ever postulate finding the perfect patsy by accident? If you don't understand what I have said, then please ask me and don't start making up your own versions of what you think it means what I have said.

Quote

There, I have answered your question.

Now, stop dodging my Questions 1 and 2. Or are you going to dodge them by asking another question.

Question 1:

Name me one real world plot that did work this way. Bypassing opportunities time and time again until they somehow found the perfect patsy, within one month.

Question 2:

Name me one major CT book that makes this argument. That Oswald was not part of the plot all along but was chosen no earlier than mid-October 1963?


I am not dodging your questions. They are too absurd and vague to be answered.

Name me one real world plot that did work this way. Bypassing opportunities time and time again until they somehow found the perfect patsy, within one month.

Why are you misrepresenting what I said? I have never claimed any plot worked that way, nor have I ever said a word about opportunities being bypassed. It's just another strawman.

Name me one major CT book that makes this argument.

What makes you assume that I read CT books? I don't!

That Oswald was not part of the plot all along but was chosen no earlier than mid-October 1963?

I never made such a claim, nor do I know of any book that makes such a claim. It's actually a claim that is way too vague to be taken seriously. What does "part of the plot" even mean?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 10:13:59 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Online Colin Crow

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2018, 10:34:14 PM »
A real world conspiracy to assassinate the US President.

John Wilkes Booth was employed at the Ford Theatre and collected his mail there.

Booth learned of Lincoln's attendance at the theatre that morning.....


The logic of the LN argument falls at the first hurdle.

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Re: How did Oswald get the job at the TSBD
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2018, 10:34:14 PM »