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Author Topic: A simple question for LNS  (Read 3243 times)

Online Martin Weidmann

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A simple question for LNS
« on: January 25, 2024, 10:54:42 PM »
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Do you think it is possible for somebody to be involved in some sort of scheme which is a minor part of a bigger scheme, that somebody knows nothing about?

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A simple question for LNS
« on: January 25, 2024, 10:54:42 PM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: A simple question for LNS
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2024, 03:01:22 AM »
Do you think it is possible for somebody to be involved in some sort of scheme which is a minor part of a bigger scheme, that somebody knows nothing about?

Why beat around the bush, your "somebody" is obviously Oswald and the people behind the "bigger scheme" are clearly the people who wanted Kennedy dead.

Now, let's examine this closely.

1. Kennedy was nearing the end of his term.
2. Why Kill Kennedy with all the potential headaches and the threat of the Electric chair, when you can simply blackmail Kennedy about his womanizing ways?
3. Or blackmail him about his drug use?
4. Or bring his lies about his Addison disease into the open.
5. Or All three of the above.
6. If the people behind the Bigger Scheme could do all the manipulation that took months before and after, why wouldn't they secure Oswald, but instead idiotically, let him just roam about the building?
7. If Oswald was in fact a minor player, why wouldn't a car be waiting for him and then they could just take Oswald away and let him disappear?
8. Why let Oswald be arrested and potentially blab?
9. In the theatre, and after Oswald pulled out his weapon, killing Oswald in self defense wouldn't be a problem.
10. If Oswald was a minor player, then he must have had some idea, so why let Oswald blab to his family, and in the Police halls, and why give him a Press conference?

I could go on and on, but any scenario in which Oswald wasn't just a silly little commie lone nut, just doesn't make sense.

JohnM

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: A simple question for LNS
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2024, 09:13:41 AM »
Why beat around the bush, your "somebody" is obviously Oswald and the people behind the "bigger scheme" are clearly the people who wanted Kennedy dead.

Now, let's examine this closely.

1. Kennedy was nearing the end of his term.
2. Why Kill Kennedy with all the potential headaches and the threat of the Electric chair, when you can simply blackmail Kennedy about his womanizing ways?
3. Or blackmail him about his drug use?
4. Or bring his lies about his Addison disease into the open.
5. Or All three of the above.
6. If the people behind the Bigger Scheme could do all the manipulation that took months before and after, why wouldn't they secure Oswald, but instead idiotically, let him just roam about the building?
7. If Oswald was in fact a minor player, why wouldn't a car be waiting for him and then they could just take Oswald away and let him disappear?
8. Why let Oswald be arrested and potentially blab?
9. In the theatre, and after Oswald pulled out his weapon, killing Oswald in self defense wouldn't be a problem.
10. If Oswald was a minor player, then he must have had some idea, so why let Oswald blab to his family, and in the Police halls, and why give him a Press conference?

I could go on and on, but any scenario in which Oswald wasn't just a silly little commie lone nut, just doesn't make sense.

JohnM

My very simple question required only a "yes" or "no" answer.

Not a list of "reasons" why it doesn't make sense to you.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2024, 05:10:51 PM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: A simple question for LNS
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2024, 09:13:41 AM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: A simple question for LNS
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2024, 04:45:25 PM »
Do you think it is possible for somebody to be involved in some sort of scheme which is a minor part of a bigger scheme, that somebody knows nothing about?

This is a good question, and of course the answer should be an obvious Yes. When we look at other conspiracies that were eventually at least partially exposed, we see plenty of cases where many of the people who participated in the conspiracy did so without knowing they were aiding a conspiracy or did so with only very limited knowledge of the conspiracy.

This brings up the point that WC apologists constantly invoke the strawman scenario of a massive, all-controlling, all-powerful, all-knowing conspiracy that should not have made any mistakes of any kind, ala the outlandish Oliver Stone-Fletcher Prouty conspiracy theory in Stone's 1991 movie JFK.

The better, more-credible, more-responsible researchers posit no such fantastic scenario. We recognize that throughout history, even some carefully planned military operations were plagued by numerous mistakes and oversights when they were executed, even though they still accomplished their primary objectives. We posit the following about the JFK assassination plot:

-- A major motive, if not the primary motive, was revenge. Hence the public execution.

-- Another major motive was to provide a clear warning to others who might have been thinking about doing what JFK did. Hence the public execution.

-- Many mistakes were made, some of them huge, and some unexpected developments occurred. For example:

* Connally was not supposed to be hit.
* Oswald was not supposed to leave the TSBD alive.
* There were too many misses, misses that witnesses saw strike and/or that left visible bullet marks that were seen by witnesses and then by journalists and others (the Aldredge curb hit, the Tague curb hit, the pavement hit, and the south Elm St. manhole-cover-grass hit).
* It took the gunmen too many shots to kill JFK.
* Because there were several misses and because it took too many shots to kill JFK, the Zapruder film could not be edited enough to make it support the lone-gunman theory, which is why it was suppressed for years and was not shown to the public until 1975 (when Geraldo Rivera ignored threats of legal action and showed the film on national TV).
* A Dallas patrolman accidentally recorded the shooting because his mic remained stuck in the open position.
* Some FBI personnel issued honest reports that contained evidence that contradicted the lone-shooter story (e.g., the initial FBI lab report on the JFK shirt slits and the Sibert & O'Neill report on the autopsy, to name two examples).

-- Many powerful elements in the government were either not part of the plot or did not know that some/most of the main plotters hoped to use JFK's death to spark an invasion of Cuba, and these elements prevented those plotters from using the assassination to provoke an invasion of Cuba. I have many issues with James Douglass's book JFK and the Unspeakable, but one of the valid and valuable disclosures in his book is the documentation that Hoover and Johnson and other officials issued stern cease-and-desist orders to those CIA officials who were trying to pin the assassination on Castro via news stories about real and phony Oswald-Cuba/Castro connections.

-- The CIA elements that were involved in the assassination were rogue elements who were operating without the knowledge or consent of CIA Director John McCone and his staff.

-- In the case of the Mafia elements involved in the plot, they acted (1) because RFK had humiliated Carlos Marcello and (2) because JFK, via RFK, was in the process of waging an unprecedented war on the Mafia and was working to shut down the lucrative Marcello, Trafficante, and Giancana operations.

-- The autopsy doctors were ordered to do what they did and were told that this was necessary for reasons of vital national security. To varying degrees, over the years the autopsy doctors disclosed damning information about JFK's wounds while still appearing to maintain their pro-WC position. Although Humes eventually succumbed to the HSCA FPP's intense pressure to go along with the cowlick entry site, Finck and Boswell adamantly refused to do so. Finck even questioned the origin of the back-of-head autopsy photo when the FPP pressed him about the red spot in the photo. Also, Humes later repudiated the cowlick site and returned to his original position on the rear head entry wound. Dr. Boswell, in particular, made a number of crucial and historic disclosures about JFK's wounds to the ARRB.



Online Richard Smith

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Re: A simple question for LNS
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2024, 05:10:34 PM »
Why beat around the bush, your "somebody" is obviously Oswald and the people behind the "bigger scheme" are clearly the people who wanted Kennedy dead.



Maybe he is asking for a friend.  LOL.  Imagine the mindset that conflates what is "possible" with the facts and evidence.  Almost anything is conceivably "possible."  That alone does not give it any validity.  It's possible that the Earth is not round.  All the evidence of such could be faked.  I've never walked around it to confirm.  So perhaps it is just my "assumption" that all the evidence lends itself to that conclusion.  This is endlessly repeated Alice-in-Wonderland lunacy that takes every thread down the same rabbit hole.

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Re: A simple question for LNS
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2024, 05:10:34 PM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: A simple question for LNS
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2024, 05:13:08 PM »
Maybe he is asking for a friend.  LOL.  Imagine the mindset that conflates what is "possible" with the facts and evidence.  Almost anything is conceivably "possible."  That alone does not give it any validity.  It's possible that the Earth is not round.  All the evidence of such could be faked.  I've never walked around it to confirm.  So perhaps it is just my "assumption" that all the evidence lends itself to that conclusion.  This is endlessly repeated Alice-in-Wonderland lunacy that takes every thread down the same rabbit hole.

And another dishonest LN, who is too afraid to simply answer "yes" or "no" bites the dust.

Imagine the mindset that conflates what is "possible" with the facts and evidence.

You mean the guy who claims it was possible for Oswald to come down the stairs unnoticed, despite the fact there is no evidence for it, or for that matter for him being on the 6th floor in the first place?

Almost anything is conceivably "possible."  That alone does not give it any validity.

So, we agree there is no validity to the claim that Oswald came down the stairs unnoticed, simply because it is possible? Great, that's progress...
« Last Edit: January 26, 2024, 05:35:14 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Jim Hawthorn

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Re: A simple question for LNS
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2024, 11:36:56 AM »
Do you think it is possible for somebody to be involved in some sort of scheme which is a minor part of a bigger scheme, that somebody knows nothing about?

Yes and that is possibly where Oswald was at.
He could also have been on his independent mission that day - unconnected to the (very small) conspiracy that was playing out at the same time. Explains everything and everyone here can get on fine.

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Re: A simple question for LNS
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2024, 11:36:56 AM »


Offline Jim Hawthorn

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Re: A simple question for LNS
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2024, 10:50:39 AM »
Why beat around the bush, your "somebody" is obviously Oswald and the people behind the "bigger scheme" are clearly the people who wanted Kennedy dead.

Now, let's examine this closely.

6. If the people behind the Bigger Scheme could do all the manipulation that took months before and after, why wouldn't they secure Oswald, but instead idiotically, let him just roam about the building?
7. If Oswald was in fact a minor player, why wouldn't a car be waiting for him and then they could just take Oswald away and let him disappear?
8. Why let Oswald be arrested and potentially blab?
10. If Oswald was a minor player, then he must have had some idea, so why let Oswald blab to his family, and in the Police halls, and why give him a Press conference?

And if Oswald was totally unconnected to the conspirator's plot? That theory reconciles everything. The problem with everyone here is that they feels that it has to be black or white.