Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview

[Jack Nessan]

You're really starting to embarrass yourself now, Jack, and it's all getting a little sad.
Your profound ignorance regarding the most basic aspects of this case and your general confusion, are making reasoned debate virtually impossible.The WC settled nothing. As I've explained elsewhere, the WC were complicit in fabricating a timeline that was specifically used to undermine the testimony of Vicki Adams. This is from Reply#401:

Just to be clear, Jack's Lie isn't that Vicki waited for four or five minutes before racing down to the first floor.
This is a Warren Commission Lie and, like a good little Nutter, Jack just regurgitates what the WC tells him to regurgitate.
On the 20th March 1964, Baker and Truly took part in time trials which established how quickly both men took to get up to the second floor lunchroom after the assassination. The first time was around 90 seconds, the second time 75 seconds.
Five days later both men testify before the WC and talk about the time trials. So the times taken by Truly and Baker to get inside the TSBD building and up to the second floor are firmly established by this point.
On the 7th April the testimonies of Adams, Lovelady and Shelley are taken. Adams goes first, telling the Commission she raced down the stairs to the first floor and was there in 30-60 seconds and saw Lovelady and Shelley there. There is no contradiction between her testimony and the Truly/Baker time trials - the reason she didn't see them and they didn't see her is that she was already out the back door before Truly and Baker got to the elevators.
Then come the testimonies of, first Lovelady, then Shelley, during which both men tell exactly the same lie which completely contradicts the Truly/Baker time trials and the testimony of Adams.
Both men testify to the effect that Truly and Baker were still outside the TSBD building at least three minutes after the assassination. This completely contradicts the time trials. The timings for Baker and Truly entering the TSBD building have already been firmly established. Now both Lovelady and Shelley are more or less testifying that Baker and Truly were lying and that the whole time trial was a sham. And it's not just one of them telling this lie...it is both of them. It is an organised and co-ordinated Lie.
I'm not sure if the Commission was aware of the Darnell footage at the time of the testimonies of Lovelady and Shelley. Film evidence proving the lies of these men.
Unbelievably, the Commission never questions these lies. The lies are allowed to stand, unchallenged.
Even more unbelievably, when it comes to offer it's final version of events on the day of the assassination, the Commission somehow accepts the results of the time trials (contradicting the "3 minute" lie of Shelley and Lovelady), but they also use the testimony of these proven liars to undermine the testimony of Adams!!This is how they come up with their ridiculous claim that it took Adams five minutes to get down to the first floor. A 'conclusion' all Nutters happily swallow down without question.
But this is not Jack's Lie.
Jack's Lie is that the testimonial evidence of Harkness, Sawyer and Barnett refutes the timeline of Adams - that she left the fourth floor within seconds of the last shot.

The WC not only allowed the lies of Shelley and Lovelady to stand unchallenged, they used these lies to undermine Adams' testimony, even though the lies completely contradicted the Baker/Truly timeline ( a timeline that had been firmly established by the time Shelley and Lovelady had their hearings).
There is no point in asking you to explain how the WC could accept these lies which completely contradicted the, already established, timelines provided by the Baker/Truly timelines.
There's probably no point even asking you if you understand what's being said here.
What can be said is that this issue is a real problem for all Nutters who just swallow down the WC's "narrative" whole.
I'm going to try, one last time, to explain your mistake. I'll explain it in a way that a child could understand.
Yes - Harkness reports that he and two others locked down the back of the building around 12:36pm
Yes - Adams reported running into an officer after she had left the building who told her to go back inside.
However, your identification of the officer who encountered Adams and Styles as Harkness is completely made up by you.
You have invented this identification. I don't know if you understand that.
It's not a fact.
It's a figment of your imagination.
You then reverse engineer the situation using this imaginary identification - if the officer is Harkness and he was there around 12:36pm then Adams and Styles encountered him around 12:36pm therefore they must have lied about what time they left the fourth floor. This is all a figment of your imagination.
I can't explain it in a simpler way.
There's no point in getting into the fact that somebody locking down the building would not be stood about 50 ft away from the door and round the corner of the building, in a position where they couldn't even see the door. I think that would be too much information for you to process.

Errr...no, Jack. I'm not the one saying Adams and Styles encountered Harkness around 12:36pm
That's you who is saying that.
Don't you remember? 
Once again, your ignorance regarding the facts of this case is shocking.
Adams states over and over and over again that she ran:

Mr. Belin: You took those stairs. Were you walking or running as you went down the stairs?
Miss ADAMS: I was running. We were running.

Mr. Belin: You had heels. Now, as you were running down the stairs, did you encounter anyone?
Miss ADAMS: Not during the actual running down the stairs; no, sir.

Mr. Belin: Did you immediately turn and run and keep on running down the stairs towards the first floor?
Miss ADAMS. Yes.

Miss ADAMS. Yes, sir; going down the stairs toward the back, I was running. I ran to the railroad tracks. I moved quickly to the front of the building, paused briefly to talk to someone, listened only to the report of the windows from which the shot supposedly was fired, and returned to the building.

Mr. BELIN. How long do you think it took you. to get from the window to the bottom of the stairs on the first floor?
Miss ADAMS. I would say no longer than a minute at the most.

Your idea, that Adams just strolled down the stairs and out of the building, just shows how little you know about this aspect of the case.
In Reply#362 I demonstrate that Adams and Styles could have made to the first floor 35 - 40 seconds after the head shot, perfectly within her own estimation of "a minute at most". Given that she "ran to the railroad tracks", her encounter with the officer could have taken place within 60 seconds of the headshot. Remember, Barnett must have seen the same officer when he got to the back of the TSBD building seconds after the shooting.
Again, this is really basic information you should be aware of. The footprint of the TSBD building is a shade under 100ft by 100ft.

Yet again, you are unaware of the basics.
Adams is specific that it is only one police officer who stops them. There is never any mention of multiple officers.
Just do some basic research. You really are making a fool of yourself.

Just a whole lot of nothing again. All just your opinion and conjecture. Everyone is lying. Not one person telling the truth but you. You and only you know what the truth is.

Maybe a recap is in order. You presented two photos as proof of something only, there was no proof of anything in the photos other than an overactive imagination. Shelley and Lovelady, to fit into this storyline are sprinting all over the place. Not because it makes any sense at all, but because that is the only way they can fit into this strange storyline.

Here are the known facts;

DO:  “Yes - Harkness reports that he and two others locked down the back of the building around 12:36pm”

DO:  “Yes - Adams reported running into an officer after she had left the building who told her to go back inside.”

Styles reported running into an officer after she had left the building who told her to go back inside.

Detective Sawyer states the front door was locked down by 13:37. Styles reenters the building by the front door and Adams tries to reenter a few minutes later and is stopped.

From where the encounter with the officer took place at the back of the building and the subsequent walk back to the front door is approximately 250 feet.

It is just math. No need to be afraid. 

At 4mph = 352 feet per minute

At 3mph = 264 feet per minute

Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir; going down the stairs toward the back, I was running. I ran to the railroad tracks. I moved quickly to the front of the building, paused briefly to talk to someone, listened only to the report of the windows from which the shot supposedly was fired, and returned to the building.

Styles walks into the front door and Adams is locked out.

 

In Reply#362 I demonstrate that Adams and Styles could have made to the first floor 35 - 40 seconds after the head shot, perfectly within her own estimation of "a minute at most".

Not according to Barnett who saw no-one behind the building.


Again, this is really basic information you should be aware of. The footprint of the TSBD building is a shade under 100ft by 100ft.

Basic is right. No, it is really 100x110 feet, N and S is longer.

There is a scale on the drawings

I should have just measured it myself the first time. Given what has gone on in this thread I am guessing the 80 x80 is probably one of your old, uninformed posts.

 

Adams is specific that it is only one police officer who stops them.

So is Styles. You are honestly insinuating that the officers were walking in a group?

 
And now you believe Adams and Styles are lying too?

Adams and Styles did not leave as quickly as they thought. The officer time stamps prove that. Seeing Shelley and Lovelady by the elevator 5 minutes after the last shot prove that.

[Dan O'meara]

You've reached the same conclusion as I did, some time ago.

I'm just not sure if Nessan is confusing matters on purpose or if he truly doesn't (want to) understand what he is being told, but either way, it's a waste of time to talk to him.

You will never get him to understand or accept that it wasn't and couldn't have been Harkness or one of the men with him who encountered Adams and Styles, because it simply does not fit with the known facts.

I thought there might be some way in engaging him in some kind of reasoned debate but it's turned out to be more like helping a doddering old man across the road.
His latest post is a continuation of his toothless dribbling.
I don't know what I was thinking. 

[Jack Nessan]

I thought there might be some way in engaging him in some kind of reasoned debate but it's turned out to be more like helping a doddering old man across the road.
His latest post is a continuation of his toothless dribbling.
I don't know what I was thinking. 

Obviously, the problem is you don't think, or you would not be posting this fantasy Adams -Styles tripe as if you have accomplished some great service to the understanding of the JFK assassination. In the end it is just simple math.

[Dan O'meara]

Just a whole lot of nothing again. All just your opinion and conjecture. Everyone is lying. Not one person telling the truth but you. You and only you know what the truth is.

Since I started looking into the Lost Interview with Vicki Adams the only people who have been shown, beyond reasonable doubt, to be lying are William Shelley, Billy Lovelady and you.
In your 'theory' (), which is based on nothing but your bizarre identification of Harkness as the officer Adams and Styles bumped into, you have Adams, Styles, Garner, Baker and Truly as liars. The Dillard picture is a lie and the Stroud document is wrong.
All because you insist it is Harkness that Adams and Styles bump into.

Now, maybe I'm underestimating you - maybe you do have good evidence that this officer is Harkness.
What is your evidence that this officer is Harkness? (don't bother trying to duck this question)

Maybe a recap is in order. You presented two photos as proof of something only, there was no proof of anything in the photos other than an overactive imagination. Shelley and Lovelady, to fit into this storyline are sprinting all over the place. Not because it makes any sense at all, but because that is the only way they can fit into this strange storyline.

Here are the known facts;

DO:  “Yes - Harkness reports that he and two others locked down the back of the building around 12:36pm”

DO:  “Yes - Adams reported running into an officer after she had left the building who told her to go back inside.”

Styles reported running into an officer after she had left the building who told her to go back inside.

Detective Sawyer states the front door was locked down by 13:37. Styles reenters the building by the front door and Adams tries to reenter a few minutes later and is stopped.

You forgot the bit where you made up the Harkness identification.
You forgot the bit where the officer in question was stood about 50ft away from the door he was supposed to be guarding.
You forgot the bit where this officer was around the corner of the building and couldn't even see the door he was supposed to be guarding.
You forgot the bit where Adams and Styles completely ignored his orders and wandered off in the opposite direction.
You really are very forgetful.

From where the encounter with the officer took place at the back of the building and the subsequent walk back to the front door is approximately 250 feet.

It is just math. No need to be afraid. 

At 4mph = 352 feet per minute

At 3mph = 264 feet per minute

Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir; going down the stairs toward the back, I was running. I ran to the railroad tracks. I moved quickly to the front of the building, paused briefly to talk to someone, listened only to the report of the windows from which the shot supposedly was fired, and returned to the building.

Styles walks into the front door and Adams is locked out.

Meaningless drivel
 

In Reply#362 I demonstrate that Adams and Styles could have made to the first floor 35 - 40 seconds after the head shot, perfectly within her own estimation of "a minute at most".

Not according to Barnett who saw no-one behind the building.

As usual you are completely wrong. He saw at least one other officer around the back.
It's interesting that in the Lost Interview, Vicki mentions seeing a cop stood on Houston street looking elsewhere. It would appear she saw Barnett but he didn't see her.

Again, this is really basic information you should be aware of. The footprint of the TSBD building is a shade under 100ft by 100ft.

Basic is right. No, it is really 100x110 feet, N and S is longer.

There is a scale on the drawings

From the Texas State Historical Association website:

TEXAS SCHOOL BOOK DEPOSITORY.The Texas School Book Depository, the building identified by the Warren Commission's report on the Kennedy assassination as the location from which Lee Harvey Oswald shot the president, is at 411 Elm Street in downtown Dallas and is now the Dallas County Administration Building. The building has seven floors and a basement and forms a 100 by 100 foot square with 80,000 square feet of space.


Do some research.

I should have just measured it myself the first time. Given what has gone on in this thread I am guessing the 80 x80 is probably one of your old, uninformed posts.

??
It's you who came up with the 80 x 80 nonsense.
Don't you remember?
It was only a couple of posts ago.
Is your memory really that bad.
At least you referred your own nonsense as "uninformed". That's the only accurate thing you've posted on this thread and it describes you perfectly.

 

Adams is specific that it is only one police officer who stops them.

So is Styles. You are honestly insinuating that the officers were walking in a group?

 
And now you believe Adams and Styles are lying too?

Adams and Styles did not leave as quickly as they thought. The officer time stamps prove that. Seeing Shelley and Lovelady by the elevator 5 minutes after the last shot prove that.

??
It's you who is saying the officers are together, not me!
Don't you remember?
It was only a couple of posts ago.
Is your memory really that bad?
Are you having a deja vu moment?

At no point in any of your posts have you taken on a single argument I've made other than to just babble your nothing opinion.
I've presented a massive amount of evidence and arguments emanating from that evidence to demonstrate that Adams was telling the truth and that Shelley and Lovelady were lying.
You have offered nothing in the way of a coherent, reasoned response.
You can't explain why Adams and Styles aren't in the window of the Dillard picture.
You can't explain the Stroud document.
You can't explain how the testimonies of Shelley and Lovelady completely contradicted the Baker/Truly time trials.
You can't explain why Oswald included Shelley in his alibi.
You lie about Harkness, Sawyer and Barnett making statements that refute Adams constant assertion that she left the fourth floor within seconds, supported by Styles and Garner.
And you can only offer the useless identification of Harkness as the officer Adams and Styles encountered based on nothing more than your own limited imagination. That's all you've got.
Do some research. Come up with some actual evidence.

[Jack Nessan]

Since I started looking into the Lost Interview with Vicki Adams the only people who have been shown, beyond reasonable doubt, to be lying are William Shelley, Billy Lovelady and you.
In your 'theory' (), which is based on nothing but your bizarre identification of Harkness as the officer Adams and Styles bumped into, you have Adams, Styles, Garner, Baker and Truly as liars. The Dillard picture is a lie and the Stroud document is wrong.
All because you insist it is Harkness that Adams and Styles bump into.

Now, maybe I'm underestimating you - maybe you do have good evidence that this officer is Harkness.
What is your evidence that this officer is Harkness? (don't bother trying to duck this question)

You forgot the bit where you made up the Harkness identification.
You forgot the bit where the officer in question was stood about 50ft away from the door he was supposed to be guarding.
You forgot the bit where this officer was around the corner of the building and couldn't even see the door he was supposed to be guarding.
You forgot the bit where Adams and Styles completely ignored his orders and wandered off in the opposite direction.
You really are very forgetful.

Meaningless drivel
 
As usual you are completely wrong. He saw at least one other officer around the back.
It's interesting that in the Lost Interview, Vicki mentions seeing a cop stood on Houston street looking elsewhere. It would appear she saw Barnett but he didn't see her.

From the Texas State Historical Association website:

TEXAS SCHOOL BOOK DEPOSITORY.The Texas School Book Depository, the building identified by the Warren Commission's report on the Kennedy assassination as the location from which Lee Harvey Oswald shot the president, is at 411 Elm Street in downtown Dallas and is now the Dallas County Administration Building. The building has seven floors and a basement and forms a 100 by 100 foot square with 80,000 square feet of space.


Do some research.

??
It's you who came up with the 80 x 80 nonsense.
Don't you remember?
It was only a couple of posts ago.
Is your memory really that bad.
At least you referred your own nonsense as "uninformed". That's the only accurate thing you've posted on this thread and it describes you perfectly.

 
??
It's you who is saying the officers are together, not me!
Don't you remember?
It was only a couple of posts ago.
Is your memory really that bad?
Are you having a deja vu moment?

At no point in any of your posts have you taken on a single argument I've made other than to just babble your nothing opinion.
I've presented a massive amount of evidence and arguments emanating from that evidence to demonstrate that Adams was telling the truth and that Shelley and Lovelady were lying.
You have offered nothing in the way of a coherent, reasoned response.
You can't explain why Adams and Styles aren't in the window of the Dillard picture.
You can't explain the Stroud document.
You can't explain how the testimonies of Shelley and Lovelady completely contradicted the Baker/Truly time trials.
You can't explain why Oswald included Shelley in his alibi.
You lie about Harkness, Sawyer and Barnett making statements that refute Adams constant assertion that she left the fourth floor within seconds, supported by Styles and Garner.
And you can only offer the useless identification of Harkness as the officer Adams and Styles encountered based on nothing more than your own limited imagination. That's all you've got.
Do some research. Come up with some actual evidence.

Since I started looking into the Lost Interview with Vicki Adams the only people who have been shown, beyond reasonable doubt,

“Looking into”  You are really being kind to yourself. You just brought a preconceived notion based on a photo and have been force fitting the known information ever since.

 

The answer has not changed. The girls did not leave when they thought. The reason this is known is the time stamps tell a different story. You can ignore the timestamps all you want, but your storyline does not work and the evidence supposedly supporting it is just flat-out made-up nonsense. Nothing but one endless hypothetical brain fart. Garbage in, garbage out.

Because this theory is as broken as it gets. Apparently, now Harkness is an issue, but only because the rest of this nonsense just does not add up, and his timestamp ends this theory by his testimony alone. It makes no difference who the girls encounter, feel free to have the girls encounter whoever you want but just make sure it was at the proper time of 12:36. All Harkness did was assemble some men and lockdown the back. If you want Harkness to be the officer they encounter good for you. The rest of this is just all you. The women encountered Harkness and the police officers stationed in the back. Get over it.

The flaws in your theory are obvious. 

Shelley and Lovelady talking to Calvery and then sprinting back into the building and somehow get ahead of Truly and Baker who they witness going into the building

Truly and Baker entering the building while Shelley and Lovelady are still outside.

The girls supposedly encountering the police in the back before Harkness states they are stationed there at 12:36

Not encountering Barnett or being seen by him, who also raced to the back of the building and was standing in the back

From start to finish would take no more than 2 minutes to traverse the building and be back at the front door, making Adams whole statement and her being turned away at the front door a red flag in your story.

-----------------

In the end the time stamps of the police confirm the movements of Adams and Styles. 

You can have all the “what if” brain farts you want but there are always logic flaws or timing issues that make what you are trying to create untenable and make them moot. The timing of this storyline of an immediate departure does not work. Claiming everyone is lying is standard for your failed ideas. Especially given the girls did not see anyone of importance and LHO admitted to the encounter on the 2nd floor.

 If he was coming up as conspiracy people believe instead of coming down like his Holmes statement, Adams and Styles should have encountered him.

Once again opinion brain farts are presented as facts. 

Mr. BELIN - How soon after 12:36 p.m., would you say the building was sealed off?
Mr. HARKNESS - It was sealed off then because I was back there and two other men.
Mr. BELIN - You are talking about the back part of the building?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.

----------------------------

You can't explain why Adams and Styles aren't in the window of the Dillard picture.
You can't explain the Stroud document.
You can't explain how the testimonies of Shelley and Lovelady completely contradicted the Baker/Truly time trials.
You can't explain why Oswald included Shelley in his alibi.
You lie about Harkness, Sawyer and Barnett making statements that refute Adams constant assertion that she left the fourth floor within seconds, supported by Styles and Garner.
And you can only offer the useless identification of Harkness as the officer Adams and Styles encountered based on nothing more than your own limited imagination. That's all you've got.
Do some research. Come up with some actual evidence.

You call what you are doing is research?  Coming up with hypothetical scenarios and then convincing yourself they are real by calling everyone liars and ignoring the real facts. If you cannot explain the time stamps and the correlations between the girls and the police you have done nothing but waste time. Here is the bad news you have not. Your "look" at the evidence has shown the opposite, that all this hypothetical guessing has yielded no answer.

[Dan O'meara]

Since I started looking into the Lost Interview with Vicki Adams the only people who have been shown, beyond reasonable doubt,

“Looking into”  You are really being kind to yourself. You just brought a preconceived notion based on a photo and have been force fitting the known information ever since.

This is the very first sentence I posted when I became aware of the "Lost Interview". It's from Reply#314:

"This interview is quite an eye-opener and certainly contradicts my own thinking on this aspect of the case."

I most certainly did not bring a preconceived notion to this aspect of the case. I had a completely different idea about it.
On the contrary, it's you who has brought an idiotic preconceived notion that it was Harkness that the girls encountered 50ft away from the back door and around the corner of the building.
You have been asked to provide evidence to support your dizzy notion that this officer is Harkness. As usual, you have provided nothing other than your insistence that it must be him because, in your own deluded mind, there were no other police officers around the back of the building before Harkness.
You have zero grasp of the evidence involved in this aspect of the case.
Your ignorance has been shown up time and time and time again.
 

The answer has not changed. The girls did not leave when they thought. The reason this is known is the time stamps tell a different story. You can ignore the timestamps all you want, but your storyline does not work and the evidence supposedly supporting it is just flat-out made-up nonsense. Nothing but one endless hypothetical brain fart. Garbage in, garbage out.

Because this theory is as broken as it gets. Apparently, now Harkness is an issue, but only because the rest of this nonsense just does not add up, and his timestamp ends this theory by his testimony alone. It makes no difference who the girls encounter, feel free to have the girls encounter whoever you want but just make sure it was at the proper time of 12:36. All Harkness did was assemble some men and lockdown the back. If you want Harkness to be the officer they encounter good for you. The rest of this is just all you. The women encountered Harkness and the police officers stationed in the back. Get over it.

The flaws in your theory are obvious. 

Shelley and Lovelady talking to Calvery and then sprinting back into the building and somehow get ahead of Truly and Baker who they witness going into the building

Truly and Baker entering the building while Shelley and Lovelady are still outside.

The girls supposedly encountering the police in the back before Harkness states they are stationed there at 12:36

Not encountering Barnett or being seen by him, who also raced to the back of the building and was standing in the back

From start to finish would take no more than 2 minutes to traverse the building and be back at the front door, making Adams whole statement and her being turned away at the front door a red flag in your story.

-----------------

In the end the time stamps of the police confirm the movements of Adams and Styles. 

You can have all the “what if” brain farts you want but there are always logic flaws or timing issues that make what you are trying to create untenable and make them moot. The timing of this storyline of an immediate departure does not work. Claiming everyone is lying is standard for your failed ideas. Especially given the girls did not see anyone of importance and LHO admitted to the encounter on the 2nd floor.

 If he was coming up as conspiracy people believe instead of coming down like his Holmes statement, Adams and Styles should have encountered him.

Once again opinion brain farts are presented as facts. 

Mr. BELIN - How soon after 12:36 p.m., would you say the building was sealed off?
Mr. HARKNESS - It was sealed off then because I was back there and two other men.
Mr. BELIN - You are talking about the back part of the building?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.

----------------------------

You can't explain why Adams and Styles aren't in the window of the Dillard picture.
You can't explain the Stroud document.
You can't explain how the testimonies of Shelley and Lovelady completely contradicted the Baker/Truly time trials.
You can't explain why Oswald included Shelley in his alibi.
You lie about Harkness, Sawyer and Barnett making statements that refute Adams constant assertion that she left the fourth floor within seconds, supported by Styles and Garner.
And you can only offer the useless identification of Harkness as the officer Adams and Styles encountered based on nothing more than your own limited imagination. That's all you've got.
Do some research. Come up with some actual evidence.

You call what you are doing is research?  Coming up with hypothetical scenarios and then convincing yourself they are real by calling everyone liars and ignoring the real facts. If you cannot explain the time stamps and the correlations between the girls and the police you have done nothing but waste time. Here is the bad news you have not. Your "look" at the evidence has shown the opposite, that all this hypothetical guessing has yielded no answer.

The usual meaningless waffle but at least you've outlined what you believe are the weaknesses with the arguments I've put forward.
This can be the starting point for a rational, reasoned debate 
I can defend my arguments against your critique and also outline what I believe are the real weaknesses with your "theory". In turn you can counter my defence against your criticisms and defend your own theory against my critique of it.
And that way we can have an adult discussion about this issue.
So, let's have a look at the weaknesses as you perceive them:

The flaws in your theory are obvious. 

Shelley and Lovelady talking to Calvery and then sprinting back into the building and somehow get ahead of Truly and Baker who they witness going into the building

Truly and Baker entering the building while Shelley and Lovelady are still outside.

The girls supposedly encountering the police in the back before Harkness states they are stationed there at 12:36

Not encountering Barnett or being seen by him, who also raced to the back of the building and was standing in the back

From start to finish would take no more than 2 minutes to traverse the building and be back at the front door, making Adams whole statement and her being turned away at the front door a red flag in your story.

Basically, you have five points of criticism.
Before dealing with them I should clarify the theory I'm putting forward.
It is based on Adams constant assertion that she left the fourth floor within seconds of the last shot:

"As the car came back into view I saw that something was wrong and watched as Mrs. Kennedy appeared to be trying to climb out of the car. I saw a Secret Service man jump in and the car began speeding toward the triple underpass. Before it reached that [the triple underpass] I turned to Sandra and I said, 'I want to see what is going on.' We ran to the back of the office and down the stairs."

Before the limo had reached the underpass Adams decided to get downstairs and find out what was going on. Adams and Styles immediately ran all the way down to the railroad track where they were stopped by a police officer. This is why we don't see Adams or Styles in the Dillard picture. Seconds earlier they had been watching the motorcade from the window. In the pic below the woman looking out of the window can be seen from her knees upwards, if Adams and Styles were anywhere near the window they would be easily visible but they are nowhere to be seen. The Dillard pic is taken about 11 seconds after the last shot, just as the limo has exited from the underpass. It confirms Adams statement that she was on her way before the limo reached the underpass:



In Reply#362 I demonstrate that Adams and Styles could have ran to the first floor within 35 - 40 seconds of the last shot. In her WC testimony Adams states she was on the first floor in less than a minute. In the Lost Interview she states she was down on the first floor within 30 to 60 seconds.
Adams and Styles have reached the first floor and exited through the back door before Truly and Baker have reached the area near the elevators on the first floor. This is confirmed by the Stroud document. The only possible way the Stroud document makes sense is if Adams and Styles leave immediately, race down the stairs and exit the building before Truly and Baker ascend the same stairs. It's the only way that Adams and Styles go down the stairs before Truly and Baker come up without either pair seeing the other.

When Adams reaches the first floor she sees Shelley and Lovelady there. She calls out to them but gets no response:

"And after the third shot, following that, the third shot, I went to the back of the building down the back stairs, and encountered Bill Shelley and Bill Lovelady on the first floor on the way out to the Houston Street dock."

If we accept Adams' version of events we find the following situation - 30 to 60 seconds after the last shot Adams and Styles reach the first floor and find Shelley and Lovelady there. Adams and Styles exit through the back door and seconds later Truly and Baker arrive in the same area. If this is the case then both sets of men must be in the same area at the same time. This appears to be confirmed by Baker's observation of two white men stood in the area when he and Truly arrived there:

Mr. Baker: On the first floor there were two men. As we came through the main doorway to the elevators, I remember as we tried to get on the elevators I remember two men, one was sitting on this side and another one between 20 or 30 feet away from us looking at us.
Mr. Dulles: Were they white men?
Mr. Baker: Yes, sir.

The diagram below represents the situation above,
The red line shows the route Adams and Styles took when they reached the first floor.
The red star is the area they encountered the police officer (note, it is impossible to see the back door from this area).
The red circle is the area Shelley and Lovelady are stood when Adams calls out to them.
We know Shelley and Lovelady were on the front steps when the shooting occurred (the blue circle) and it is from this area they make their way to the back of the first floor. The blue line is an approximation of their route.



This is the theory I'm putting forward based on Adams' testimony and it couldn't be more simple.
After the shooting Shelley and Lovelady make their way to the back of the first floor of the TSBD building.
That's it.
Nothing miraculous.
Nothing fantastical.
Two men simply make their way from the front steps to the area near the elevators.
What is so difficult to understand about it?

This brings us to the first "flaws" Jack has put forward that undermine this theory:

Shelley and Lovelady talking to Calvery and then sprinting back into the building and somehow get ahead of Truly and Baker who they witness going into the building

Truly and Baker entering the building while Shelley and Lovelady are still outside.


How do Shelley and Lovelady make it past Baker and Truly to arrive at the area near the elevators before Baker and Truly do?
The short answer is that they simply walk past Baker while he is talking to Truly in the lobby.
It really is that simple.
Why Jack is having a hard time getting his head around that is anyone's guess.
In Reply#403 I reconstruct the seconds after the assassination using the Darnell footage. It culminates in this series of identifications:



This image, taken from the Darnell footage, occurs approximately 20 - 25 seconds after the assassination.
In it we see Baker approaching the front steps. Lovelady is on the steps listening to an incredibly distressed Gloria Calvery telling everyone about JFK being shot. Shelley is stood near the bottom of the steps having just returned from the concrete 'spur' after running into Gloria.
Of the four men, Truly is stood furthest away from the front door.
As the seconds roll on from this point Baker makes his way up the steps and enters the lobby closely followed by Shelley and Lovelady. Baker makes the point that other people enter the lobby with him:

Mr. Belin: What did you see and what did you do as you ran into the building?
Mr. Baker: As I entered this building, there was, it seems to me like there was outside doors and then there is a little lobby.
Mr. Belin: All right.
Mr. Baker: And then there are some inner doors and another door you have to go through, a swinging door type.
As I entered this lobby there were people going in as I entered. And I asked, I just spoke out and asked where the stairs or elevator was, and this man, Mr. Truly, spoke up and says, it seems to me like he says, "I am a building manager. Follow me, officer, and I will show you." So we immediately went out through the second set of doors, and we ran into the swinging door.

The "people going in" with Baker are Shelley and Lovelady. Baker is trying to find out how to get to up the building and Truly shows up. Truly and Baker have a short conversation.
While Baker is trying to find out where the stairs or elevator are and while he is talking to Truly, Shelley and Lovelady simply walk quickly by him and enter the main work space of the first floor before Truly and Baker do.
Shelley and Lovelady are only a few seconds ahead of Baker and Truly but it is during these few seconds that Adams and Styles run by.
There is nothing difficult to understand about this, nothing miraculous is happening.

The girls supposedly encountering the police in the back before Harkness states they are stationed there at 12:36

This is Jack's third "flaw".
His assumption is that there are no police officers in the area around the back of the TSBD building until 12:36pm, when Harkness and a couple of other officers  start to lock down the back of the building. This is wrong.
From Welcome Barnett's WC testimony:

"So since ,this was the only fire escape and there was officers down here watching this back door, I returned back around to the front to watch the front of the building and the fire escape."

Within two minutes of the assassination, Barnett has made his way to the back of the building and noticed a police presence there. It is completely wrong, not to mention quite baffling, to assume there were no other officers near the back door before Harkness. Barnett proves this is wrong and he also provides evidence supporting Adams assertion that there was an officer in this area seconds after the assassination.

Not encountering Barnett or being seen by him, who also raced to the back of the building and was standing in the back

Jack's fourth "flaw".
Firstly, there is absolutely no reason why Adams and Styles would have "encountered" Barnett. He was on Houston Street, Adams and Styles were not.
Interestingly, in the Lost Interview, Adams refers to seeing a police officer on Houston Street after she exited the back door.
It must be remembered that Barnett's total focus was on the roofline of the building and, in particular, the fire escape on Houston Street. Barnett makes the specific point that he paid very little attention to the area around the back door:

Mr. Liebeler: There is a door in the back of the Texas School Book Depository. Does it face on Houston or around the corner?
Mr. Barnett: It is around the corner from Houston Street.
Mr. Liebeler: Did you go in the building?
Mr. Barnett: No, sir; I didn't get close to it, because I was watching for a fire escape. If the man was on top, he would have to come down, and I was looking for a fire escape, and I didn't pay much attention to the door.
I was still watching the top of the building, and so far as I could see, the fire escape on the east side was the only escape down .

It isn't really that surprising Barnett didn't see Adams and Styles around the back of the TSBD building. He was focused on the fire escape on Houston Street.

From start to finish would take no more than 2 minutes to traverse the building and be back at the front door, making Adams whole statement and her being turned away at the front door a red flag in your story.

This is Jack's fifth and final "flaw".
To be honest, I don't even know what it means.
I agree it would have taken 2 minutes to make it round to the front of the building.
Styles walked straight back into the building unchallenged. Adams didn't decide to go back in until she heard the 12:38pm transmission referring to the second floor. Jack doesn't seem to appreciate that Adams was out front trying to discover what happened. She talks about a conversation with Avery Davies and listening to the police radio.

Jack's "flaws" seem really weak and are easily dealt with. There is nothing that undermines the theory I'm putting forward.
Maybe I'm missing something.
We'll see.

[Jack Nessan]

This is the very first sentence I posted when I became aware of the "Lost Interview". It's from Reply#314:

"This interview is quite an eye-opener and certainly contradicts my own thinking on this aspect of the case."

I most certainly did not bring a preconceived notion to this aspect of the case. I had a completely different idea about it.
On the contrary, it's you who has brought an idiotic preconceived notion that it was Harkness that the girls encountered 50ft away from the back door and around the corner of the building.
You have been asked to provide evidence to support your dizzy notion that this officer is Harkness. As usual, you have provided nothing other than your insistence that it must be him because, in your own deluded mind, there were no other police officers around the back of the building before Harkness.
You have zero grasp of the evidence involved in this aspect of the case.
Your ignorance has been shown up time and time and time again.
 
The usual meaningless waffle but at least you've outlined what you believe are the weaknesses with the arguments I've put forward.
This can be the starting point for a rational, reasoned debate 
I can defend my arguments against your critique and also outline what I believe are the real weaknesses with your "theory". In turn you can counter my defence against your criticisms and defend your own theory against my critique of it.
And that way we can have an adult discussion about this issue.
So, let's have a look at the weaknesses as you perceive them:

The flaws in your theory are obvious. 

Shelley and Lovelady talking to Calvery and then sprinting back into the building and somehow get ahead of Truly and Baker who they witness going into the building

Truly and Baker entering the building while Shelley and Lovelady are still outside.

The girls supposedly encountering the police in the back before Harkness states they are stationed there at 12:36

Not encountering Barnett or being seen by him, who also raced to the back of the building and was standing in the back

From start to finish would take no more than 2 minutes to traverse the building and be back at the front door, making Adams whole statement and her being turned away at the front door a red flag in your story.

Basically, you have five points of criticism.
Before dealing with them I should clarify the theory I'm putting forward.
It is based on Adams constant assertion that she left the fourth floor within seconds of the last shot:

"As the car came back into view I saw that something was wrong and watched as Mrs. Kennedy appeared to be trying to climb out of the car. I saw a Secret Service man jump in and the car began speeding toward the triple underpass. Before it reached that [the triple underpass] I turned to Sandra and I said, 'I want to see what is going on.' We ran to the back of the office and down the stairs."

Before the limo had reached the underpass Adams decided to get downstairs and find out what was going on. Adams and Styles immediately ran all the way down to the railroad track where they were stopped by a police officer. This is why we don't see Adams or Styles in the Dillard picture. Seconds earlier they had been watching the motorcade from the window. In the pic below the woman looking out of the window can be seen from her knees upwards, if Adams and Styles were anywhere near the window they would be easily visible but they are nowhere to be seen. The Dillard pic is taken about 11 seconds after the last shot, just as the limo has exited from the underpass. It confirms Adams statement that she was on her way before the limo reached the underpass:



In Reply#362 I demonstrate that Adams and Styles could have ran to the first floor within 35 - 40 seconds of the last shot. In her WC testimony Adams states she was on the first floor in less than a minute. In the Lost Interview she states she was down on the first floor within 30 to 60 seconds.
Adams and Styles have reached the first floor and exited through the back door before Truly and Baker have reached the area near the elevators on the first floor. This is confirmed by the Stroud document. The only possible way the Stroud document makes sense is if Adams and Styles leave immediately, race down the stairs and exit the building before Truly and Baker ascend the same stairs. It's the only way that Adams and Styles go down the stairs before Truly and Baker come up without either pair seeing the other.

When Adams reaches the first floor she sees Shelley and Lovelady there. She calls out to them but gets no response:

"And after the third shot, following that, the third shot, I went to the back of the building down the back stairs, and encountered Bill Shelley and Bill Lovelady on the first floor on the way out to the Houston Street dock."

If we accept Adams' version of events we find the following situation - 30 to 60 seconds after the last shot Adams and Styles reach the first floor and find Shelley and Lovelady there. Adams and Styles exit through the back door and seconds later Truly and Baker arrive in the same area. If this is the case then both sets of men must be in the same area at the same time. This appears to be confirmed by Baker's observation of two white men stood in the area when he and Truly arrived there:

Mr. Baker: On the first floor there were two men. As we came through the main doorway to the elevators, I remember as we tried to get on the elevators I remember two men, one was sitting on this side and another one between 20 or 30 feet away from us looking at us.
Mr. Dulles: Were they white men?
Mr. Baker: Yes, sir.

The diagram below represents the situation above,
The red line shows the route Adams and Styles took when they reached the first floor.
The red star is the area they encountered the police officer (note, it is impossible to see the back door from this area).
The red circle is the area Shelley and Lovelady are stood when Adams calls out to them.
We know Shelley and Lovelady were on the front steps when the shooting occurred (the blue circle) and it is from this area they make their way to the back of the first floor. The blue line is an approximation of their route.



This is the theory I'm putting forward based on Adams' testimony and it couldn't be more simple.
After the shooting Shelley and Lovelady make their way to the back of the first floor of the TSBD building.
That's it.
Nothing miraculous.
Nothing fantastical.
Two men simply make their way from the front steps to the area near the elevators.
What is so difficult to understand about it?

This brings us to the first "flaws" Jack has put forward that undermine this theory:

Shelley and Lovelady talking to Calvery and then sprinting back into the building and somehow get ahead of Truly and Baker who they witness going into the building

Truly and Baker entering the building while Shelley and Lovelady are still outside.


How do Shelley and Lovelady make it past Baker and Truly to arrive at the area near the elevators before Baker and Truly do?
The short answer is that they simply walk past Baker while he is talking to Truly in the lobby.
It really is that simple.
Why Jack is having a hard time getting his head around that is anyone's guess.
In Reply#403 I reconstruct the seconds after the assassination using the Darnell footage. It culminates in this series of identifications:



This image, taken from the Darnell footage, occurs approximately 20 - 25 seconds after the assassination.
In it we see Baker approaching the front steps. Lovelady is on the steps listening to an incredibly distressed Gloria Calvery telling everyone about JFK being shot. Shelley is stood near the bottom of the steps having just returned from the concrete 'spur' after running into Gloria.
Of the four men, Truly is stood furthest away from the front door.
As the seconds roll on from this point Baker makes his way up the steps and enters the lobby closely followed by Shelley and Lovelady. Baker makes the point that other people enter the lobby with him:

Mr. Belin: What did you see and what did you do as you ran into the building?
Mr. Baker: As I entered this building, there was, it seems to me like there was outside doors and then there is a little lobby.
Mr. Belin: All right.
Mr. Baker: And then there are some inner doors and another door you have to go through, a swinging door type.
As I entered this lobby there were people going in as I entered. And I asked, I just spoke out and asked where the stairs or elevator was, and this man, Mr. Truly, spoke up and says, it seems to me like he says, "I am a building manager. Follow me, officer, and I will show you." So we immediately went out through the second set of doors, and we ran into the swinging door.

The "people going in" with Baker are Shelley and Lovelady. Baker is trying to find out how to get to up the building and Truly shows up. Truly and Baker have a short conversation.
While Baker is trying to find out where the stairs or elevator are and while he is talking to Truly, Shelley and Lovelady simply walk quickly by him and enter the main work space of the first floor before Truly and Baker do.
Shelley and Lovelady are only a few seconds ahead of Baker and Truly but it is during these few seconds that Adams and Styles run by.
There is nothing difficult to understand about this, nothing miraculous is happening.

The girls supposedly encountering the police in the back before Harkness states they are stationed there at 12:36

This is Jack's third "flaw".
His assumption is that there are no police officers in the area around the back of the TSBD building until 12:36pm, when Harkness and a couple of other officers  start to lock down the back of the building. This is wrong.
From Welcome Barnett's WC testimony:

"So since ,this was the only fire escape and there was officers down here watching this back door, I returned back around to the front to watch the front of the building and the fire escape."

Within two minutes of the assassination, Barnett has made his way to the back of the building and noticed a police presence there. It is completely wrong, not to mention quite baffling, to assume there were no other officers near the back door before Harkness. Barnett proves this is wrong and he also provides evidence supporting Adams assertion that there was an officer in this area seconds after the assassination.

Not encountering Barnett or being seen by him, who also raced to the back of the building and was standing in the back

Jack's fourth "flaw".
Firstly, there is absolutely no reason why Adams and Styles would have "encountered" Barnett. He was on Houston Street, Adams and Styles were not.
Interestingly, in the Lost Interview, Adams refers to seeing a police officer on Houston Street after she exited the back door.
It must be remembered that Barnett's total focus was on the roofline of the building and, in particular, the fire escape on Houston Street. Barnett makes the specific point that he paid very little attention to the area around the back door:

Mr. Liebeler: There is a door in the back of the Texas School Book Depository. Does it face on Houston or around the corner?
Mr. Barnett: It is around the corner from Houston Street.
Mr. Liebeler: Did you go in the building?
Mr. Barnett: No, sir; I didn't get close to it, because I was watching for a fire escape. If the man was on top, he would have to come down, and I was looking for a fire escape, and I didn't pay much attention to the door.
I was still watching the top of the building, and so far as I could see, the fire escape on the east side was the only escape down .

It isn't really that surprising Barnett didn't see Adams and Styles around the back of the TSBD building. He was focused on the fire escape on Houston Street.

From start to finish would take no more than 2 minutes to traverse the building and be back at the front door, making Adams whole statement and her being turned away at the front door a red flag in your story.

This is Jack's fifth and final "flaw".
To be honest, I don't even know what it means.
I agree it would have taken 2 minutes to make it round to the front of the building.
Styles walked straight back into the building unchallenged. Adams didn't decide to go back in until she heard the 12:38pm transmission referring to the second floor. Jack doesn't seem to appreciate that Adams was out front trying to discover what happened. She talks about a conversation with Avery Davies and listening to the police radio.

Jack's "flaws" seem really weak and are easily dealt with. There is nothing that undermines the theory I'm putting forward.
Maybe I'm missing something.
We'll see.

Wow. It is so hard to take this seriously. A lot of pictures, conjectures, and words but absolutely void of substance. Made up information, pictures, and overall pure conjecture. In the end, in the girls’ own statements, they encountered the officer behind the building and were told to return to the building and we know from Sgt Harkness’s testimony that the building was not locked down until 12:36. We know from Sawyers testimony, the front of the building was locked down at 12:37. Styles went in, and Adams was stopped. We know from Officer Barnett’s testimony he ran immediately to the back and did not encounter anyone emerging from the building. Adams and Styles emerged from the Houston Street dock, apparently that is new information to you.  Nothing posted here changes that the girls left later than they thought.

[Dan O'meara]

Wow. It is so hard to take this seriously. A lot of pictures, conjectures, and words but absolutely void of substance. Made up information, pictures, and overall pure conjecture. In the end, in the girls’ own statements, they encountered the officer behind the building and were told to return to the building and we know from Sgt Harkness’s testimony that the building was not locked down until 12:36. We know from Sawyers testimony, the front of the building was locked down at 12:37. Styles went in, and Adams was stopped. We know from Officer Barnett’s testimony he ran immediately to the back and did not encounter anyone emerging from the building. Adams and Styles emerged from the Houston Street dock, apparently that is new information to you.  Nothing posted here changes that the girls left later than they thought.

A lot of pictures,

 
There are three pictures!
THREE!!
Apologies if I've reached the threshold of the number of images you can process in a single Reply.
I'll make sure I don't post four images in a single Reply, we don't want you having some kind of meltdown.

Adams and Styles emerged from the Houston Street dock, apparently that is new information to you.

Is it really new information to me?
It appears you can't even process two images.
The second image I posted was the route Adams and Styles took after they reached the first floor.
It has them leaving through the back door by the Houston Street dock, which is clearly marked on the image.
Here's the image if you don't believe me (you might need a nap after you've examined it):



In the end, in the girls’ own statements, they encountered the officer behind the building and were told to return to the building and we know from Sgt Harkness’s testimony that the building was not locked down until 12:36.

And here we have the two pieces of information you base your whole fantasy on.
Adams and Styles encountered a police officer after leaving the building and you have randomly decided this officer is Harkness.
It's truly unbelievable that this is the sum total of your efforts.
It's embarrassing.
Your deluded identification fails on so many levels it's actually funny.
You have an officer stood about 50ft away from the door he is supposed to be locking down.
He is stood around the corner of the building in a position where he can't even see the back door yet you insist he's locking the building down.
Adams and Styles completely ignore him and you still insist he's locking the building down.
What a waste of time and effort it is dealing with you.