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Author Topic: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview  (Read 37892 times)

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #160 on: January 11, 2024, 03:14:00 AM »
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I'm sure you said in 1 of your posts that your eyewitness was confused! -snigger-

You obviously don't understand the drastic implications and the complete destruction of your eyewitness, of what you have written.

No.

JohnM

So, you can't tell me where Adams and Styles were for at least 4 minutes after the shots? Got it!

And you don't want or can't produce the actual evidence that Oswald was on the 6th floor of the TSBD when the shots were fired and went down the stairs within 75 seconds after the last shot. Wow, how would that play in out in court?

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #160 on: January 11, 2024, 03:14:00 AM »


Online David Von Pein

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #161 on: January 11, 2024, 03:26:33 AM »
And you don't want or can't produce the actual evidence that Oswald was on the 6th floor of the TSBD when the shots were fired and went down the stairs within 75 seconds after the last shot. Wow, how would that play out in court?

Martin, like all Internet conspiracy theorists, is not very good at simple math.....especially when it comes to adding things up concerning Lee Harvey Oswald and his movements and actions on November 22, 1963.

Martin, of course, could perform the 2nd-grade math if he really wanted to. But he doesn't want to. So, he'll just continue to pretend that Oswald's movements are impossible to figure out from the known evidence.

Such is the way with Internet conspiracy theorists/fantasists.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2024, 10:35:13 PM by David Von Pein »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #162 on: January 11, 2024, 03:30:32 AM »
Martin, like all Internet conspiracy theorists, is not very good at simple math.....especially when it comes to adding things up concerning Lee Harvey Oswald and his movements and actions on November 22, 1963.

Thank you for your opinion. Too bad that your statements are even less than superficial. I'll be happy to discuss the time line with you, but I seriously doubt you would be interested in that.

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #162 on: January 11, 2024, 03:30:32 AM »




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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #164 on: January 11, 2024, 03:44:45 AM »


Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #165 on: January 11, 2024, 05:58:07 AM »
I'm beginning to wonder if you live in your own fantasy world.

HUH? So what happened to the officer, now according to you. just wandering around and stopping them at the North West corner of the building?  Really, an officer telling them to go back into the building is passing the time of day with friendly conversation but apparently not “sealing off the building.”

Once again you misrepresent what I said. I never said anything about a police officer "just wandering around" or "passing the time of day with a friendly conversation". You seem to be under the flawed impression that every single police officer that ran towards the west area of the TSBD must have been part of the officers who were tasked with sealing off the building.

And, of course, you ignore that fact that Lovelady and Shelley were walking/running to that same area well before Sawyer arrived. Lovelady testified that he saw policemen running out that way.

Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I asked who told her. She said he had been shot so we asked her was she for certain or just had she seen the shot hit him or--she said yes, she had been right close to it to see and she had saw the blood and knew he had been hit but didn't know how serious it was and so the crowd had started towards the railroad tracks back, you know, behind our building there and we run towards that little, old island and kind of down there in that little street. We went as far as the first tracks and everybody was hollering and crying and policemen started running out that way and we said we better get back into the building, so we went back into the west entrance on the back dock had that low ramp and went into the back dock back inside the building.

and Shelley testified that he "watched them to searching cars down there in the parking lots"

Mr. BALL - What did you and Billy Lovelady do?
Mr. SHELLEY - We walked on down to the first railroad track there on the dead-end street and stood there and watched them searching cars down there in the parking lots for a little while and then we came in through our parking lot at the west end.
Mr. BALL - At the west end?

This may be over your head, but the combined testimony of Lovelady and Shelley shows there were officers in the parking lot searching cars before Swayer had even arrived. You may think otherwise, but it's not unsual for police officer to tell people to return where they came from to prevent a potential crime scene from being contaminated.

The only people this officer is known to have told is Adams and Styles?

Yes, we don't know who else he told, but that doesn't really matter. We know that he told Adams and Styles and that's enough.

Speaking of asking questions. I asked, do you consider yourself an unreliable opinion. Don’t bother answering, I have the answer. It is yes. Multiple explanations to the same event.

It's clear by now that you don't like my time line, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. If I made a mistake you are more than welcome to tell me and provide at least a shred of evidence for it, instead of all sorts of assumptions.
In other words, if you can show that my time line doesn't work or is wrong, I'll be more than happy to be persuaded by your arguments. As it stands, however, you are not presenting much of an argument. In fact, all your previous comments about the time line seem now to have been reduced to a sort of unsupported claim that the officer who told Adams and Styles to return to the building was involved in the sealing of the evidence.

You could for instance start by presenting the evidence to back up this claim, as I have asked you to do multiple times;

your obvious refusal to provide that evidence doesn't do your credibility any good.

MW--“Once again you misrepresent what I said. I never said anything about a police officer "just wandering around" or "passing the time of day with a friendly conversation". You seem to be under the flawed impression that every single police officer that ran towards the west area of the TSBD must have been part of the officers who were tasked with sealing off the building”

That is the impression you give. If he suspected them of something, detain them. Sealing of the building is not letting them leave which is what Harkness stated he did.

MW--“You may think otherwise, but it's not unsual for police officer to tell people to return where they came from to prevent a potential crime scene from being contaminated.”

What crime scene was in the parking lot? They returned by walking along the RR Tracks along side the building.

MW--“In other words, if you can show that my time line doesn't work or is wrong, I'll be more than happy to be persuaded by your arguments.” 

You have been repeatedly shown what a mess your timeline is. You just don’t want to admit it. It all begins with you understand Adams and Styles were told to go back inside. Which is something they continually admitted too. The police put a timestamp on that event(12:36) along with the one at the front door(12:37). Shelley and Lovelady place a time stamp on when they were at the elevator(12:35). It all fits to the narrative of what Adams and Styles claimed was their travels. Additionally, officer Barnett did not see anyone emerge from the back of the building during the three minutes he stood on Houston Street.

Do you ever wonder why they did not talk to Styles? What would be the point they already had the answer after taking statements from Adams, Harkness, Sawyer, and Lovelady and Shelley. 

Garner provided no valuable information. She was not even at the window when the shots were fired. She went later and then her statement was all confused.

Instead of focusing on what is important your biggest concern seems to be some silly question you have. Maybe just dodging the real issue? They did not leave for 4 or 5 minutes. There is no other answer.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2024, 06:05:54 AM by Jack Nessan »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #166 on: January 11, 2024, 11:24:54 AM »

MW--“Once again you misrepresent what I said. I never said anything about a police officer "just wandering around" or "passing the time of day with a friendly conversation". You seem to be under the flawed impression that every single police officer that ran towards the west area of the TSBD must have been part of the officers who were tasked with sealing off the building”

That is the impression you give. If he suspected them of something, detain them. Sealing of the building is not letting them leave which is what Harkness stated he did.


If that's your impression, then you are cleary not paying attention. I'm not sure where you get the "detain them" stuff from. Nor do I understand why you are stuck on what Harkness said. He didn't arrive at the back of the TSBD until after Adams and Styles were long gone.

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MW--“You may think otherwise, but it's not unsual for police officer to tell people to return where they came from to prevent a potential crime scene from being contaminated.”

What crime scene was in the parking lot? They returned by walking along the RR Tracks along side the building.


Did you miss the word "potential"? At the time the officers were searching the cars, just minutes after the shooting they had no idea where a crime scene was

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MW--“In other words, if you can show that my time line doesn't work or is wrong, I'll be more than happy to be persuaded by your arguments.” 

You have been repeatedly shown what a mess your timeline is. You just don’t want to admit it. It all begins with you understand Adams and Styles were told to go back inside. Which is something they continually admitted too. The police put a timestamp on that event(12:36) along with the one at the front door(12:37). Shelley and Lovelady place a time stamp on when they were at the elevator(12:35). It all fits to the narrative of what Adams and Styles claimed was their travels. Additionally, officer Barnett did not see anyone emerge from the back of the building during the three minutes he stood on Houston Street.


So much confusion. I have been saying all along that Adams and Styles were told by a police officer to go back inside. Your "timestamp on that event" simply doesn't exist. You refer to a transmission by Harkness, but he wasn't the officer that told Adams and Styles to go back in.

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Do you ever wonder why they did not talk to Styles? What would be the point they already had the answer after taking statements from Adams, Harkness, Sawyer, and Lovelady and Shelley. 


Yes, I do understand why they didn't talk to Styles. They didn't really want to talk to Adams either, but in Styles' case, the last thing they needed was corroboration of what Adams had said. They simply did not want to take that risk. It's the same game they played with the FBI agents who were present at autopsy. After Specter talked to the men and found out what they had to say, they were never called to testify. In his deposition, Tomlinson was asked over and over again about the location of the bullet on the stretcher but he was never shown the actual bullet. But back to Adams; one of the more telling exchanges was this;

Mr. BELIN - Sometime after the third shot, and I don't want to get into the actual period of time yet, you went back into the stockroom which would be to the north of where your offices are located on the fourth floor, is that correct?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir; that's correct.

"I don't want to get into the actual period of time yet" implies he would come back to that, but he never did. And that's (IMO) because he didn't want to know and didn't want it on the record.

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Garner provided no valuable information. She was not even at the window when the shots were fired. She went later and then her statement was all confused.


This only shows just how limited your knowledge of the evidence in this case is. The one that is confused, and most likely on purpose, is you.


Quote
Instead of focusing on what is important your biggest concern seems to be some silly question you have. Maybe just dodging the real issue?

Asking you for evidence to support a bold and absolutely untrue claim you made is somehow a "silly question". If anybody is dodging the real issue, it's you.

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They did not leave for 4 or 5 minutes. There is no other answer.


Too bad that I already have given you another answer. You just don't like it. Your entire fairytale comes down to this; Adams and Styles stayed at the window for 4 minutes (for which there is no evidence as it didn't happen), they then ran down the stairs to the first floor, getting them there at around 1:35, where Adams allegedly saw Shelley and Lovelady (who in fact by their own statement did not enter the annex building until at least 5 minutes after the shots and thus couldn't have been at the bottom of the stairs) and then Harkness told them, at 1:36, to re-enter the building, which they didn't do, at least not through the backdoor. Instead they ran around three sides of the building in less than a minute in order for Styles to be able to re-enter the building at the front entrance.

It's a bogus scenario that you desperately cling to, to keep the possibility alive that Oswald could have come down the stairs unseen after all. The holes in your story and the misrepresentations of the evidence are staggering and of course total  BS:


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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #166 on: January 11, 2024, 11:24:54 AM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #167 on: January 11, 2024, 11:46:28 AM »
Martin, like all Internet conspiracy theorists, is not very good at simple math.....especially when it comes to adding things up concerning Lee Harvey Oswald and his movements and actions on November 22, 1963.

Martin, of course, could perform the 2nd-grade math if he really wanted to. But he doesn't want to. So, he'll just continue to pretend that Oswald's movements are impossible to figure out from the known evidence.

Such is the way with Internet conspiracy theorists/fantasists.

So, instead of taking my up on my offer to discuss the time line (which I already expected) you edit a previous post to include a childish ad hom attack on me. How pathetic, but also how absolutely typical of the LNs.

It's becoming more and more clear that beyond a massive amount of dubious rhetoric, filled with half-truths and complete misrepresentations of the evidence, the LNs are utterly incapable to actually argue their case in an honest conversation. All guys like you do, on a daily basis, is telling the same lies and misrepresentations hoping that some day they will actually become true.

You can't even get it straight that I am not a conspiracy theorist. I have never had and never will put forward a conspiracy theory, because that's not where my interests lie. My only purpose is to find out if the case against Oswald can indeed withstand scrutiny and obviously if it can't than the only alternative is a conspiracy of some kind, but I'll gladly leave that to others.

Btw, I just had a quick look at part one of Oswald's time line on your site, and found it filled with assumptions and speculation. Time after time you say things like "I believe", "It's possible", "I assume" and you make claims for which there is not a shred of evidence. The whole saga of Oswald hiding in the snipers nest when Bonnie Ray Williams was on the 6th floor is pure fiction. The truth is that you can't place Oswald on the 6th floor anywhere after a couple of minutes past 12 noon. The story about Oswald going down the stairs is also a mere assumption for which there is no evidence. Not only that but your time line simply ignores completely the testimony of Victoria Adams and the information provided by Dorothy Garner. The entire piece is nothing more than blatant propaganda with utter disregard for the truth and the actual available evidence. In other words, it's exactly what I expected from you.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2024, 01:42:49 PM by Martin Weidmann »