Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview

[Martin Weidmann]

Oswald offered no alibi , he said he ate alone . but again we have a person claiming things to be proven FACT when that simply is not the case .Brewer in testimony stated that he asked postal if she saw a man who he described to her go in ,according to brewer she said she did not see any such man sneak in . postal in her testimony not only said she saw the man sneak in but that she watched him walk along jeffferson and turn right and sneak in . that is quite a contradiction . who was right ? who was wrong ? , did one lie ? .in addition theater witnesses placed oswald in the theater quite a time before the brewer sighting . some 30 minutes prior .

i am not aware of any iron clad proof that the light color jacket found was oswalds . it was the wrong size , it was laundered when Marina did all Oswalds washing . it is difficult to place any stock in claims  by marina when we know there was atleast by inference a threat to deport her if she did not co operate . this is supported by Robert Oswald an LN witness .

did every single witness within the building hear shots ? .

Mr. BELIN - Did you hear any shots fired?
Mr. WEST - I didn't hear a one. Didn't hear a one.

so why then would you infer that Oswald would have had to naturally hear shots ? .

i believe from memory when you talk about Oswald and a "COMMOTION" that you talking about what is in the harry holmes notes , notes that very clearly do not relay certain events in the order they happened or not at the times they happened . in the notes holmes has Oswald saying he was still on the 6th floor at the time of the shots , something the BUG tried to use to his advantage . we know oswald never placed himself on the 6th floor at the time of the shooting .

Oswald offered no alibi

Wait just a second.

Oswald never had an opportunity to offer an alibi. As there is no verbatim record of what Oswald actually said during his four interrogations before he was killed, we will never know what Oswald could have provided as an alibi.

[David Von Pein]

There is no doubt that Oswald left his workplace. Which door he left by is not a proven thing by any stretch, and that was my point. Even you in essence state something to be fact that actually is not proven fact.

I do, indeed, think that Oswald did exit the building via the front door. Is this a "proven" fact? No. But it is certainly the most reasonable inference to be made from the available evidence (mainly based on the testimony of Mrs. Reid, who saw Oswald walking toward the FRONT stairs on the 2nd floor at about 12:32).

And since we KNOW that Oswald (who was no doubt attempting to get out of that building as quickly as he could following the shooting which was carried out with HIS RIFLE from the sixth floor) did exit the building very soon after the shooting, it doesn't make very much sense for him to go down the front stairs (which is the direction he was headed when Reid saw him), but then reverse his direction and go all the way to the back of the building again so he could exit via the Loading Dock door (which, IMO, would look more suspicious to anyone who might happen to see him leave by that back door right after a Presidential assassination attempt).

So the "reasonable inference" reached by the Warren Commission (and by David R. Von Pein of the Hoosier State) is that Lee H. Oswald very likely departed the Book Depository via the front entrance at about 12:33 PM CST on November 22nd. Your opinion may vary. But if it does vary, it's certainly not going to be nearly as "reasonable" as the "front door" inference.

And, btw, in this thread itself, I never said a word about Oswald leaving by the "front door". All I said was this:

".... Leaving the TSBD Building within about three minutes of the Presidential shooting and then proceeding to walk several blocks east on Elm Street in order to get on a bus that he only stayed on for a matter of a few minutes before getting off and catching a cab at the Greyhound bus terminal (which was likely the only time in his life that Lee Oswald paid for a taxicab ride while in the United States of America)."

I'll accept your apology in advance. 

[John Mytton]

Oswald offered no alibi

Wait just a second.

Oswald never had an opportunity to offer an alibi. As there is no verbatim record of what Oswald actually said during his four interrogations before he was killed, we will never know what Oswald could have provided as an alibi.

Oswald never had an opportunity to offer an alibi.

Hang on! From the TV news crews populating the Halls of Justice, we learned that Oswald told us that he was a Patsy because he was in Russia, he told us he didn't shoot anybody, he complained about legal representation, he agreed that he was inside at the time, so if he had a realistic alibi he would be shouting this from the rooftops! And let's remember he was even given the World's stage in a Midnight Press conference and he didn't say squat about an effective alibi because he never had one, because as we all know Oswald was in the Sniper's nest firing shots into the Limo and specifically into Kennedy and Connally.

JohnM

[John Mytton]

I see John has just posted in another thread, so his usual "excuse" that he has a life doesn't apply.

A couple of days ago I asked him why I should take a 45 year old memory by Styles more seriously than a contradictory statement she made years earlier and a statement Adams made to the FBI two days after the event?


John's reply (so far);

Go figure!

I see John has just posted in another thread, so his usual "excuse" that he has a life doesn't apply.

Sorry Martin, because I was busy having a "life" I just saw this post!

Anyway, I've explained that based on the evidence, my reasoning for why I think the way that I do, but off the top of my head, here we go again.

1. The passenger elevator was much closer and ended up very close to Elm street.



2. The "action" that Adams says in her Lane interview that she was seeking was on Elm street.
3. Lovelady and Shelley were back in the building much later.
4. The Policeman ordering Adams back to her building was unlikely if the confrontation happened within a couple of minutes after the assassination.
5. When Adams reentered the building she took the most convenient method back to the 4th floor, I.E. the passenger elevator, meaning that initially while being on the 1st floor, she didn't run to the back of the building and use the stairs or the Freight elevator.
6. Garner didn't know where the girls went but she immediately went to the rear stairs/freight elevator instead of the much closer passenger elevator? WHY?
7. Garner tells Ernest that the reason she immediately left the window was to get something from the rear storage area, another change of story, and again why would she go back to the stairs/elevator and not use either but just hang around? Especially when the most significant event of her entire life was unfolding directly in front of her very eyes? WHY?
8. The back of the building in this case was basically nothing interesting and a far cry from the place of "action"!



9. "Immediately" is definitely quite a bit shorter than 15-30 seconds.

10. Truly and Baker never see Adams and Styles.

And even if Adams did "immediately" run to the rear stairs, that just means that she was ahead of Oswald, so which ever way you slice it, all roads lead to Oswald being as guilty as sin!

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

Hang on! From the TV news crews populating the Halls of Justice, we learned that Oswald told us that he was a Patsy because he was in Russia, he told us he didn't shoot anybody, he complained about legal representation, he agreed that he was inside at the time, so if he had a realistic alibi he would be shouting this from the rooftops! And let's remember he was even given the World's stage in a Midnight Press conference and he didn't say squat about an effective alibi because he never had one, because as we all know Oswald was in the Sniper's nest firing shots into the Limo and specifically into Kennedy and Connally.

JohnM

So, just because Oswald didn't do what you expected him to do (i.e. offer an alibi in two short public appearances) you conclude that he didn't have an alibi?

Really? How superficial?

we all know Oswald was in the Sniper's nest firing shots into the Limo and specifically into Kennedy and Connally.

We all know that? LOL

[Martin Weidmann]

Sorry Martin, because I was busy having a "life" I just saw this post!

Anyway, I've explained that based on the evidence, my reasoning for why I think the way that I do, but off the top of my head, here we go again.

1. The passenger elevator was much closer and ended up very close to Elm street.
2. The "action" that Adams says in her Lane interview that she was seeking was on Elm street.
3. Lovelady and Shelley were back in the building much later.
4. The Policeman ordering Adams back to her building was unlikely if the confrontation happened within a couple of minutes after the assassination.
5. When Adams reentered the building she took the most convenient method back to the 4th floor, I.E. the passenger elevator, meaning that initially while being on the 1st floor, she didn't run to the back of the building and use the stairs or the Freight elevator.
6. Garner didn't know where the girls went but she immediately went to the rear stairs/freight elevator instead of the much closer passenger elevator? WHY?
7. Garner tells Ernest that the reason she immediately left the window was to get something from the rear storage area, another change of story, and again why would she go back to the stairs/elevator and not use either but just hang around? Especially when the most significant event of her entire life was unfolding directly in front of her very eyes? WHY?
8. The back of the building in this case was basically nothing interesting and a far cry from the place of "action"!
9. "Immediately" is definitely quite a bit shorter than 15-30 seconds.
10. Truly and Baker never see Adams and Styles.

And even if Adams did "immediately" run to the rear stairs, that just means that she was ahead of Oswald, so which ever way you slice it, all roads lead to Oswald being as guilty as sin!

JohnM

Sorry Martin, because I was busy having a "life" I just saw this post!

Yeah sure.... or you just needed a bit of time to come up with some sort of an "answer". Btw, what's it like to have a pretended "life"? I'm asking because I have an actual life (see the difference) and wouldn't know what a "life" would be like.

Nothing of the above fairytale speculative nonsense really answers my question, which was;

But ok, let's be open minded; tell me why I should take a 45 year old memory by Styles more seriously than a contradictory statement she made years earlier and a statement Adams made to the FBI two days after the event?

All it really does is vaguely infer that you prefer Styles' 45 year old memory because it fits in with a bogus reasoning that you have come up with which, of course, does not match the actual evidence at all.
It is clear that you are in fact the one who hasn't got an open mind. But then again, what else is new?

And even if Adams did "immediately" run to the rear stairs, that just means that she was ahead of Oswald, so which ever way you slice it, all roads lead to Oswald being as guilty as sin!

And this gives your entire game away. Just like the WC before you, you desperately need to somehow explain how Oswald could have come down the stairs unnoticed within 75 seconds after the shots were fired.
To achieve that goal, you are willing to ignore known facts, call witnesses liars and fabricate a fictitious narrative based on opinions, speculation, assumptions, which doesn't work in a timeline that takes all the known facts in consideration.

This is what the key points of evidence actually say;

1. Adams and Styles said they went down the stairs at the back of the building. There is no reason to doubt that statement.
2. Shelley and Lovelady ran to the parking lot west of the building and when they got there, about 2 minutes after the shots, they saw police men checking cars. The photo you have posted shows the car park and the location where Shelley and Lovelady said they were.

Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I asked who told her. She said he had been shot so we asked her was she for certain or just had she seen the shot hit him or--she said yes, she had been right close to it to see and she had saw the blood and knew he had been hit but didn't know how serious it was and so the crowd had started towards the railroad tracks back, you know, behind our building there and we run towards that little, old island and kind of down there in that little street. We went as far as the first tracks and everybody was hollering and crying and policemen started running out that way and we said we better get back into the building, so we went back into the west entrance on the back dock had that low ramp and went into the back dock back inside the building.

Mr. SHELLEY - We walked on down to the first railroad track there on the dead-end street and stood there and watched them searching cars down there in the parking lots for a little while and then we came in through our parking lot at the west end.

3. Styles was photographed standing next to Sawyer's car near the steps of the front door entrance. Sawyer arrived there at between 12:34 and 12:36.
4. Styles re-entered the building before it was sealed off. The building was sealed off when Sawyer arrived back from a short run to the 4th floor at around 12:37.

Mr. SAWYER. To look around on the floor. How long it took to go up, it couldn't have been over 3 minutes at the most from the time we left, got up and back down.
Mr. BELIN. Then that would put it around no sooner than 12:37, if you heard the call at 12:34?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then you got down and what did you do?
Mr. SAWYER. I asked the Sergeant to doublecheck the security around the building, and then I took two patrolmen and stationed them at the front door and told them, with instructions not to let anybody in or out.
Mr. BELIN. Now up to the time you did this, had anyone else sealed off the building, that you know of?
Mr. SAWYER. When I arrived, the sergeant told me he had the building sealed off.



Try working these known facts into a timeline that has Adams and Styles not leaving the 4th floor for several minutes after the shots.

[Fergus O'Brien]

Oswald offered no alibi

Wait just a second.

Oswald never had an opportunity to offer an alibi. As there is no verbatim record of what Oswald actually said during his four interrogations before he was killed, we will never know what Oswald could have provided as an alibi.

this is correct Martin . Oswald never offered an alibi , certainly not on film .according to the interrogation notes he stated several times that he ate alone , but as you correctly point out we only have the DPD (fbi etc ) word for what he said in interrogation .