Oswald And Ferrie Seen Together By Dallas Cab Driver

[Michael T. Griffith]

Raymond Broshears? You've got to be kidding. He was the guy who went on television to say
that he channeled lee harvey oswald in a seance.

https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/exclusive-raymond-broshears-on-the-stan-bohrman-show-july-1968

I posted the tape of the show on Youtube. You can listen for yourself.

He was an incredible fabulist.

Read my various posts on Broshears:

https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/blog/tags/raymond-broshears

fred

I would say you must be kidding. Abraham Lincoln participated in seances. Are you going to suggest that we summarily and automatically dismiss everything he said? Nancy Reagan believed in astrology and tried to persuade her husband to act based on astrological signs. Shall we therefore automatically dismiss everything she said?

Your approach toward pro-conspiracy witnesses is to pronounce them dishonest or unreliable if you find out anything negative or odd about them. Not even the most rigid, fanatical prosecutor would apply such an unreasonable standard to their witnesses.

Let's take a closer look at Raymond Broshears:

He enlisted in the Navy and was later discharged due to a head injury. He then attended a Bible college and became a traveling Pentecostal preacher in the early 1960s. He openly supported gay rights at a time when it was very unpopular to do so. He himself was a homosexual. He founded a group, the Lavender Panthers, dedicated to protecting gays from violence. In the mid-1960s, Broshears joined CORE, the Congress of Racial Equality. In the early 1970s, he founded the Helping Hands ministry in San Francisco to help poor people and to help people who were being exploited in sex work.

Broshears met David Ferrie in a bar in New Orleans, and Ferrie, a fellow homosexual, became friends with Broshears and eventually confided in Broshears about his personal life struggles and his relationship with Oswald. Broshears also claimed he had sex with Oswald, which cannot be summarily dismissed because, as many authors have documented, there is evidence that Oswald was bisexual.

If you Google "Raymond Broshears," you will find that he is still highly regarded by liberals and others for his work in the gay rights and civil rights movements in the '60s and '70s. Some examples:

http://www.tenderloinmuseum.org/public-programs-2019-2/2019/8/7/that-was-ray
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-controversial-gay-priest-who-brought-vigilante-justice-to-san-franciscos-streets-180982451/

Now, was Broshears an odd character? Certainly. Absolutely. But does this mean that we can therefore automatically reject his account of what David Ferrie told him? No, not by any reasonable standard of evidence, especially given the fact that his account is consistent with Ferrie's being a pilot, with Ferrie's highly suspicious trip to Houston on the day of the assassination, with the fact that other witnesses said that Ferrie and Oswald knew each other, and with the evidence that Oswald was bisexual.

For that matter, David Ferrie himself was rather odd and unusual, as I'm sure you know. He was not only odd, he was fired from Eastern Airlines for molesting young boys. He was arrested twice for morally depraved conduct. He kept dozens of mice in cages in his apartment. Yet, you accept his denials about knowing Oswald, and you reject every single person who said that Ferrie told them he knew Oswald or who said they saw Oswald with Ferrie.

I note that you keep ignoring the fact that Charles Frances, the CAP member took the CAP photo, told the FBI that Ferrie and Oswald knew each other. One gets the impression that you keep avoiding Frances' account because you don't have any dirt on Frances.

I note that you have opted not to address the point that another CAP member told the FBI that after the assassination Ferrie visited him to see if he had any old squadron photos that pictured him and Oswald together.

Yet another former CAP member told the New Orleans Police Department's Intelligence Division that he was in Oswald's CAP unit and that "Ferrie knew Oswald" (FBI memo, SA Regis Kennedy, FD 302, 11/25/63, file number 89-69-154).

I note that you also declined to address the fact that the FBI asked Ferrie if he had loaned his library card to Oswald. Now, why did they do this? Ferrie told his landlady, Lena Garner, that "they found my library card on Oswald."

Former CAP member Jerry Paradis told the HSCA that Oswald and Ferrie were “in the unit together” at ten or fifteen meetings. Paradis is the one who said, “I’m not saying that they may have been there together. I’m saying it was a certainty.”

I note that you also declined to address the fact that released HSCA records include a New Orleans to Garland (TX) flight plan dated 4/8/1963 (HSCA RG 233) that named the pilot as Ferrie and named his three passengers as Hidell (Oswald's alias), Lambert, and Diaz, and that an affidavit accompanying the HSCA RG 233 document reports that a man named Edward J. Grinus said one of Clay Shaw's aliases was Lambert. Try to figure the odds that these data could all be coincidences.

And your answer to all these witnesses is that they were all either lying or mistaken. That is just not a credible position. Dr. Stephen Knott, an ardent lone-gunman theorist and author of the recent book Coming to Terms with John F. Kennedy, acknowledges that the Ferrie and Oswald knew each other, and he argues that Oswald knew Ferrie because Oswald was a pro-Castro Marxist who was trying to infiltrate anti-Castro groups.

[Fred Litwin]

Michael: I am not ignoring anything you wrote. My preference is to discuss one item at a time.

For instance, here is my post on the library card:

https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-david-ferrie-s-library-card

Let's go back to Raymond Broshears. Actually, he was not well liked in the gay community. He rubbed
everybody the wrong way.

I am not sure if you know about Stephen Roy (aka Blackburst) but he is the authority on David Ferrie. He was writing a book about David Ferrie, but unfortunately he died before it could be published. However, I am
fortunate to have a copy.

He spoke to Broshears about David Ferrie. He came away believing he was a fabulist. He did not know must about Ferrie and he did not know much about his apartment, although he was supposed to be a roommate.

https://www.jfk-online.com/dbraybropost.html


If you read my posts, you can see many of the ridiculous stuff that Broshears told Garrison:

- Broshears had sex with Kerry Thornley and recognized his hips in the oswald backyard photographs.
- Hale Boggs was part of the conspiracy, and Clay Shaw was responsible for keeping Boggs in office.

- Two men from Garrison's office threatened Ferrie in 1965.

- Ferrie was working for a group of people who wanted to take over the United States.

- Ferrie told Broshears that Lyndon Johnson killed JFK.

- Broshears repeated the story about the two assassins being killed in a place crash in Corpus Christi - they were supposed to have been flown by Ferrie from Houston to South Africa.

- Broshears said that Ferrie said that Oswald was one of the best lays he ever had.

- Broshears said he threatened the life of Lyndon Johnson, and he was then detained in a VA psychiatric hospital in New Orleans.

- Perry Russo stole $2,300 from Clay Shaw.

- Broshears was threatened by Secret Service agents after appearing on the Bohrman TV show.

- Three people who worked in the TSBD were part of the cell that Oswald had infiltrated. Tippit was sent to kill Oswald because Oswald had infiltrated the cell for the FBI. Oswald had gone to Russia on work for the FBI.

- Ferrie met Jack Ruby in New Orleans.

- one of the tramps as possibly a gay hustler, or the tramp might have been the man who chauffeured Clay Shaw

- Edgar Eugene Bradley was one of he tramps.

- Broshears said he met thornley in a gay bar.

And then Broshears was interviewed by the HSCA, and he told more lies:

https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/reverend-raymond-broshears-talks-to-the-hsca

He told the HSCA that Andrew Sciambra who worked for Garrison had David Ferrie killed.

And this the man you want to believe??

fred




-

[Michael T. Griffith]

Michael: I am not ignoring anything you wrote. My preference is to discuss one item at a time.

For instance, here is my post on the library card:

https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-david-ferrie-s-library-card

Your article is a prime example of your draconian approach to pro-conspiracy witnesses, even ones who did not realize that their accounts were problematic for the lone-gunman theory.

You admit that Ms. Eames said that Ferrie came to her house asking about "whose library card Oswald had." You also concede that Ms. Garner said that Ferrie came to her house as well. Now, let's stop right there. Let's stop and think about this. Why, why, oh why, would Ferrie have taken the time to go to Ms. Eames' house and ask her about "whose library card Oswald had"?! And why did he visit another person who knew Oswald, Ms. Garner, apparently for the same reason? Why? If Ferrie did not know Oswald, what on earth was going on here?

You reject the Eames and Garner accounts as irrelevant, coincidental, and innocent, if not mistaken. You jump on the fact that the women were not certain about the dates or because one of them gave a date when Ferrie could not have been there. Then, you opine, via Roy, that Ferrie may have visited the women to ask about his library card/what library card Oswald had for an innocent reason, namely, that Ferrie merely thought it was possible that somehow Oswald had ended up with one of his old library cards from his CAP days. 

Now how would Oswald have "just happened" to have ended up with Ferrie's library card from his and Ferrie's CAP days? Describe for me a scenario in which this could have plausibly occurred, especially given your claim Ferrie did not know Oswald. Was Ferrie in the habit of brandishing his library card and leaving it behind during CAP meetings? I mean, how could this have happened?

I remember when I had a library card. The only time I would ever take it out of my wallet was when I went to the library--otherwise, I had no reason to take it out of my wallet.

Let's go back to Raymond Broshears. Actually, he was not well liked in the gay community. He rubbed everybody the wrong way.

I am not sure if you know about Stephen Roy (aka Blackburst) but he is the authority on David Ferrie. He was writing a book about David Ferrie, but unfortunately he died before it could be published. However, I am
fortunate to have a copy.

He spoke to Broshears about David Ferrie. He came away believing he was a fabulist. He did not know must about Ferrie and he did not know much about his apartment, although he was supposed to be a roommate.

https://www.jfk-online.com/dbraybropost.html


If you read my posts, you can see many of the ridiculous stuff that Broshears told Garrison:

- Broshears had sex with Kerry Thornley and recognized his hips in the oswald backyard photographs. [MG: Given Thornley's character and record, why is this "ridiculous"?]
- Hale Boggs was part of the conspiracy, and Clay Shaw was responsible for keeping Boggs in office. [MG: Did Broshears claim to have actual knowledge of this, or was he speculating? Given Clay Shaw's wealth and standing, is it so wild that Broshears may have believed Shaw kept Boggs in office?]
- Two men from Garrison's office threatened Ferrie in 1965. [MG: Okay, and you know this is absolutely false how? This claim is mild compared to some of the bogus claims that Garrison's critics made about him.]
- Ferrie was working for a group of people who wanted to take over the United States. [MG: Uh, what is "ridiculous" about this? Ferrie had extensive Mafia ties and publicly called for JFK's execution. Ferrie was also involved with Guy Banister and CIA-backed anti-Castro operations. Jack Ruby, of all people, toward the end of his life, indicated that those who had used him were part of an effort to take over the government.]
- Ferrie told Broshears that Lyndon Johnson killed JFK. [MG: Lots of people had already reached the same conclusion, including the KGB. And, again, was Broshears claiming he "knew" this from inside information, or was he expressing his opinion?]
- Broshears repeated the story about the two assassins being killed in a place crash in Corpus Christi - they were supposed to have been flown by Ferrie from Houston to South Africa.[MG: Okay, and why is this automatically "ridiculous"? Ferrie was an accomplished pilot who sometimes made plane trips in the service of criminal or covert operations. Other than your aversion to multiple assassins, why is this account automatically far-fetched? Just because Broshears repeated the story because he believed it was true does not disqualify him as a witness.]
- Broshears said that Ferrie said that Oswald was one of the best lays he ever had. [MG: Okay, and why is this "ridiculous"? There is considerable evidence that indicates that Oswald was bisexual. Plus, Broshears' comment may have just been playful hyperbole.]
- Broshears said he threatened the life of Lyndon Johnson, and he was then detained in a VA psychiatric hospital in New Orleans. [MG: Yes, so does the fact that he did this and that he therefore drew the attention of law enforcement mean that every statement he made about Ferrie and Oswald is false?]
- Perry Russo stole $2,300 from Clay Shaw. [MG: Okay, why is this automatically "ridiculous"?]
- Broshears was threatened by Secret Service agents after appearing on the Bohrman TV show. [MG: Okay, and why is this automatically "ridiculous"? We know the Secret Service made implied threats against, and placed enormous pressure on, Dr. Perry to get him to change his diagnosis of the throat wound. His good friend Audrey Bell confirmed this to the ARRB.]
- Three people who worked in the TSBD were part of the cell that Oswald had infiltrated. Tippit was sent to kill Oswald because Oswald had infiltrated the cell for the FBI. Oswald had gone to Russia on work for the FBI. [MG: Humm, well, Tippit most certainly appears to have been looking for Oswald--he was far out of his assigned area and had no plausible reason to be there. Oswald was clearly a false defector, and although his sponsor probably was not the FBI, it was another intel entity. And, there were some straing goings-on at the TSBD in the months leading up to the assassination. Plus, again, did Broshears claim that he knew these things from firsthand inside knowledge, or was he theorizing?]
- Ferrie met Jack Ruby in New Orleans. [MG: Entirely plausible and credible.]
- One of the tramps as possibly a gay hustler, or the tramp might have been the man who chauffeured Clay Shaw. [MG: Again, was Broshears saying he knew this from firsthand inside knowledge, or was he passing on hearsay, or was he speculating?]
- Edgar Eugene Bradley was one of he tramps. [MG: Certainly, he got this wrong, since Brading was arrested in the Dal-Tex Building for acting suspiciously right after the assassination. One incorrect claim does not mean we can automatically dismiss everything Broshears said about Ferrie and Oswald, etc.]
- Broshears said he met thornley in a gay bar. [MG: And? Thornley admitted that he spent time in the New Orleans French Quarter, so why is this automatically "ridiculous"?]

And then Broshears was interviewed by the HSCA, and he told more lies: [MG: Were they all "lies"? Really?]

https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/reverend-raymond-broshears-talks-to-the-hsca

He told the HSCA that Andrew Sciambra who worked for Garrison had David Ferrie killed. [MG: Well, gee, this is not too far removed from some of the wild claims that Shaw's defense team and their allies in the media made about Garrison and his staff. Here, too, did Broshears claim that he knew this for a fact from firsthand inside information, or was he speculating or passing on rumors he'd heard?]

And this the man you want to believe?? fred

And so you conclude that Broshears never knew David Ferrie, period, and that every single statement he made about Ferrie was a fabrication? I just don't buy that. A few points:

One, as my bracketed comments argue, a number of the claims that you list as ridiculous and false are actually plausible and not so ridiculous. Exactly how would Broshears have known that Ferrie was gay, that Oswald was bisexual, that Thornley knew Oswald, that Thornley spent time in the New Orleans French Quarter, that Jack Ruby made several trips to New Orleans, and that Jack Ruby may well have been bisexual?

Two, just because Broshears exaggerated and fabricated, or wrongly speculated, on some points regarding Ferrie and Oswald, etc., does not mean that everything he said on the subject is false. You don't apply that all-or-nothing standard to non-conspiracy witnesses.

For instance, you don't apply that all-or-nothing standard to the sleazebag and scum Jack Ruby, who clearly lied about a number of things, not to mention his disreputable character and immoral conduct--yet you take Ruby's word on his associations, on his non-involvement in the assassination, on his stalking of Oswald, on his appearance at Parkland Hospital soon after the shooting, on how he entered the police basement, and on why he shot Oswald.

Three, Broshears certainly was highly regarded by at least some members of the gay rights movement at the time, and gay rights writers today who have commented on Broshears have spoken favorably of him. There an be no denying that Broshears did a lot of noble work for the poor and the persecuted. If we compare Broshears with Ruby, Broshears was not nearly as bad a character as Ruby and was more believable than Ruby.

Four, the following disclosures and facts should be considered when judging Broshears' statements:

-- The claim that Perry Russo did not mention the Shaw-Ferrie-Oswald meeting during his first interview with Garrison aide Andrew Sciambra is refuted by Lou Ivon's search warrant. Ivon's search warrant mentioned the meeting that Russo recounted to Sciambra, and it mentioned Shaw's use of the alias "Clay Bertrand." Crucially, the search warrant was written before Sciambra wrote his two memos on his interviews with Russo.

-- A CIA document reveals that Kerry Thornley was a CIA operative.

-- Douglas Jones was the owner of the Jones Printing Company that printed Oswald's pro-Castro leaflets in New Orleans. Jones identified multiple photos of Kerry Thornley as the man who picked up the leaflets. Jones said Thornley used the name "Lee Osborne," one of the fake names attributed to Oswald.

-- CIA documents reveal that Clay Shaw and David Ferrie were long-time CIA operatives. One CIA document reveals that Shaw worked for the CIA from 1949 through 1972, and that Shaw's CIA contact in New Orleans was Hunter Leake, who was second in command at the CIA's New Orleans field office.

-- Walter Sheridan, a Justice Department official who was helping Clay Shaw's defense team, was recorded threatening Perry Russo and then telling Russo he would get Russo a fake job in California and would give him a monthly check for five years if he would deny that he had seen Oswald with Shaw and Ferrie discussing an assassination plot.

-- When Garrison charged Sheridan with bribery and witness intimidation, Sheridan fled the state. Sheridan did not dare stand trial because his threats and bribery attempt against Russo were captured on an audio recording (Garrison had wisely wired Russo for Russo's meeting with Sheridan).

-- Several CIA documents reveal that Jack Martin worked for the CIA.

Finally, I should add that I am not a huge fan of Jim Garrison. I believe the record is clear that he was on the right track, but I acknowledge that he sometimes knowingly made false claims, that he sometimes purposely exaggerated, and that on a few occasions he used unethical methods.

[Tom Scully]

What sleazy tactics of Shaw's defense team.

As you know, there was no discovery in Louisiana Courts at the time.

https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/clay-shaw-s-lawyers-faced-an-unfair-fight

Shaw had to finance detectives to run down every lead in the press. They had no access to Garrison's
investigative files. So, they talked to Holland McComb who gave them information, which was
reported by Wegmann.

Garrison wouldn't dare call Cummings as a witness in the Shaw trial. And Garrison didn't
mention him in his book.

The Criminal Intelligence file speaks to Cummings' credibility.

His whole story was ridiculous from start to finish.

fred

Curiously, Fred has not linked to or cited this recent post of his, in any of his posts on this forum.

Fred only displays the month and day he posted this,
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/gq-magazine-the-case-against-jim-garrison
Great read! A meeting of the minds of Fred Litwin and Jim DiEugenio.,

https://jfkfacts.org/provocative-prolific-joan-mellen/#comment-869223
TOM S.
APRIL 12, 2016 AT 1:25 PM
".....


(Thomas B Lemann was the father of the man who does all of "the heavy lifting," Nicholas Lemann,in Fred's post, linked above.)


"...............................
The best face I can put on this is that Garrison misled and failed to disclose to his friend, Joan Mellen, and editor of his own book, the co-writer of the JFK the movie screenplay, Zachary Sklar.

The most troubling thing I’ve learned is that almost no one seems to appreciate being exposed to this new information. They already knew what they knew and indicate a preference of not having to consider Garrison’s actual proximity to those even he described as CIA sponsored adversaries.

Garrison’s silence on this also provided an opening (unanswered by Garrison) for the belligerent nephew of Stepen B. Lemann who is also the step-nephew of wife of Lee Garrison’s first cousin and godfather David Baldwin.:

continued……"

[Tom Scully]

https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/gq-magazine-the-case-against-jim-garrison
Fred Litwin
Oct 5
18 min read

GQ Magazine - "The Case Against Jim Garrison"
The January 1992 issue of GQ featured an article by Nicholas Lemann titled "The Case Against Jim Garrison."

David Baldwin's  MIL, Mildred Crumb Lyons Lemann, was the only paternal grandmother Nicholas B. Lemann knew.

http://files.usgwarchives.net/la/orleans/obits/1/l-11.txt
003004 Lemann – Mildred Crumb Lyons Lemann, A Homemaker, Died Friday At Her Home In New Orleans. She
Was 94. Mrs. Lemann Was A Lifelong Resident Of New Orleans. … In 1929, She Worked At Metairie Park
Country Day School, Where She Coordinated The School’s Non-Academic Activities. Survivors Include A Daughter,
Mildred Lyons Baldwin;
A Sister, Ethel Crumb Brett; Two Stepsons, Thomas B. Lemann, And Stephen B. Lemann; …. Times Picayune 01-14-1990

http://files.usgwarchives.net/la/orleans/obits/1/b-03.txt
000618 Baldwin – Mildred Lyons Baldwin, Age 79 Years, On Monday, August 12, 2002 At Touro Infirmary.
Mrs. Baldwin Attended Metairie Park Country Day School And William And Mary College. She Was An
Accomplished Classical Pianist Who Loved Chopin And Debussy. Other Interests Included Acting, Modern
Dance And Cooking. She Was The Wife Of The Late David G. Baldwin For 50 Years. ... Private Services Will Be Held. In Lieu Of
Flowers Memorial Contributions To Metairie Park Country Day School Would Be Appreciated. Times Picayune
08-13-2002

https://jfkfacts.org/who-was-the-only-man-to-ever-face-legal-charges-in-jfks-assassination/#comment-856848

JOHN MCADAMS
FEBRUARY 7, 2016 AT 7:48 PM
The back story in its simplest form is that David Baldwin’s wife, Mildred Lyons emerges as the stepdaughter of Monte Lemann, the stepsister of Stephen B. Lemann and his brother Thomas, (who is the father of Nicholas B. Lemann), the sister-in-law of Edward M. Baldwin, and the daughter-in-law of Adele Ziegler Baldwin Raworth, who was the sister of Harold J. Ziegler, father-in-law of Jim Garrison. David Gilmore Baldwin, III and his brother, attorney Edward M. Baldwin, were first cousins of Jim Garrison’s wife, Leah Elizabeth Ziegler Garrison.

"So Garrison’s critics, and Garrison himself were all part of the conspiracy!

They were all in on it.

Amazing find, Tom."

https://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/thread-15982-post-124532.html
01-09-2019, 09:51 PM
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:
"Tom, I like you personally and I think you usually do good work and I defended you when people were attacking your approach at EF.

But I am at a loss to explain how you fell for Carpenter. This is a guy who writes for Max Holland.....

IOW...
Quote:

I'll Do the Thinning Around Here, Baba Looey


Well, enough time has passed now to reliably observe that Jim did a "drive by" on me. (Imagine how different this might have gone down if he did not like me....)

Isn't another way of saying what Jim conveyed to me?
Quote:
Tom, I like you personally.... unfortunately you are stupid enough to fall for the pronouncements of Max Holland's lackey, Donald Carpenter..."

[Tom Scully]

I address these attacks in my book.

I think anyone who watches Cummings' interview will conclude that he was a sincere and reluctant witness.

I am surprised at the use of the Clay Shaw defense attorney memo on Shaw, given what we have known for years about the sleazy tactics employed by Shaw's defense team (of course, some of Garrison's tactics weren't much better, admittedly). -snip-

-snip-
PLEASE BEAR IN MIND THAT THE FACTS I'VE PRESENTED IN THIS THREAD SUPPORT TOM PURVIS'S OPINION GARRISON, TOM BETHELL, HIS FRIEND NICHOLAS LEMANN, HIS UNCLE, STEPHEN B. LEMANN, AND "THE CIA PEOPLE" AUTHOR JOAN MELLEN DESCRIBED TO REX BRADFORD IN A 2006 INTERVIEW, WERE ALL ON THE SAME SIDE, the smokescreen side.
-snip-

[Michael T. Griffith]

My bottom line about Cummings is fourfold: One, as I watch his video interview, he comes across to me as sincere and credible. Two, the dirt that Shaw's lawyers and other critics dug up on him is either questionable, unproven, or non-disqualifying--I might add that they accept the claims of anti-conspiracy witnesses with far more serious black marks on their records. Three, Cummings had no identifiable motive for fabricating his account, never sought any publicity, and never tried to make money from his account. Four, Cummings' account is devoid of sensational claims but is straightforward and believable, unless one is ardently committed to the dubious position that Ferrie and Oswald did not know each other.