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Author Topic: When Was JBC Hit?  (Read 17893 times)

Offline John Mytton

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Re: When Was JBC Hit?
« Reply #72 on: November 29, 2023, 01:24:04 AM »
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Wow, it's amazing that Connally himself, the man who actually experienced the wounding, was absolutely certain that he was not hit before Z228. He looked at every frame from Z222 through Z245 under high magnification and using high-qualify prints of each frame, and he saw no indication that he was hit before Z228. But you say he only "guessed" and could not recognize his own reactions!

His right shoulder does not start to get slammed forward and downward until Z238, and his face does not start to exhibit a pained expression until Z238. Connally said the bullet's impact felt like someone punched him hard in the back, so it's ludicrous to suppose that the impact occurred in Z224. You would not have a 14-frame delay between impact and shoulder collapse. You might have a 3-4-frame delay, but no more. This lines up with Connally's conclusion that the bullet's impact occurred at Z234.

And how do you have an SBT hit at Z224 when JFK begins to react to his non-fatal wounding at around Z200, and when Jackie clearly starts to react to JFK's reaction in Z202, as even the HSCA photographic experts recognized and acknowledged? We now know that the initial Secret Service analysis of the Z film concluded that JFK was hit at Z199.

The HSCA experts also recognized that Willis slide 5 is strong evidence that JFK was hit at least 17 frames before he disappears behind the freeway sign because Willis slide 5 corresponds with Z202. Willis specified that he snapped the picture in a startle reaction to hearing a shot fired. Allowing time for Willis's brain and nervous system to receive, process, and react to the sound of the shot, this means Willis heard the shot at around Z186-190, as the HSCA experts explained. I cover this in some detail in my book.

I use the Zapruder film as evidence because the forgers were not able to remove all the problematic elements from the film. There was only so much editing they could do. They could not get rid of every unwanted sequence. That's why the film was suppressed for so many years. The plotters recognized that even the altered version markedly contradicted the lone-gunman scenario.

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Wow, it's amazing that Connally himself, the man who actually experienced the wounding, was absolutely certain that he was not hit before Z228. He looked at every frame from Z222 through Z245 under high magnification and using high-qualify prints of each frame, and he saw no indication that he was hit before Z228. But you say he only "guessed" and could not recognize his own reactions!

There's no "wow" about it, we can all see the same frames now and today instead of examining still frames we have the added benefit of studying those very same frames in repeated motion.

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His right shoulder does not start to get slammed forward and downward until Z238, and his face does not start to exhibit a pained expression until Z238.

For starters contrary to popular belief, when someone is struck by a bullet, there has never been an over the top Hollywood type reaction and the frames I presented show Connally's lapel flip and his sharp sudden forward thrust of only an inch or two, you know like real life. And secondly I don't see any forward slamming at Z238??

Take off your conspiracy blinding glasses and have an honest look.



At frame 238 check out the orientation of Connally's severely right turned body and knowing the entrance and exit points of Connally's wounds, seriously consider the trajectory required and then postulate what would be the location of your mysterious sniper, from a helicopter perhaps?? Because at the established earlier Zapruder frame, Connally wounds are perfectly lined up back to Oswald's sniper's nest!



JohnM

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Re: When Was JBC Hit?
« Reply #72 on: November 29, 2023, 01:24:04 AM »


Online Royell Storing

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Re: When Was JBC Hit?
« Reply #73 on: November 29, 2023, 02:28:07 AM »
There's no "wow" about it, we can all see the same frames now and today instead of examining still frames we have the added benefit of studying those very same frames in repeated motion.

For starters contrary to popular belief, when someone is struck by a bullet, there has never been an over the top Hollywood type reaction and the frames I presented show Connally's lapel flip and his sharp sudden forward thrust of only an inch or two, you know like real life. And secondly I don't see any forward slamming at Z238??

Take off your conspiracy blinding glasses and have an honest look.



At frame 238 check out the orientation of Connally's severely right turned body and knowing the entrance and exit points of Connally's wounds, seriously consider the trajectory required and then postulate what would be the location of your mysterious sniper, from a helicopter perhaps?? Because at the established earlier Zapruder frame, Connally wounds are perfectly lined up back to Oswald's sniper's nest!



JohnM

          All Moot.  SBT = DOA

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: When Was JBC Hit?
« Reply #74 on: November 29, 2023, 02:34:21 AM »
O
And how do you have an SBT hit at Z224 when JFK begins to react to his non-fatal wounding at around Z200, and when Jackie clearly starts to react to JFK's reaction in Z202, as even the HSCA photographic experts recognized and acknowledged? We now know that the initial Secret Service analysis of the Z film concluded that JFK was hit at Z199.

Years ago, Dale Myers examined the HSCA's claim that JFK's head sharply turned rightward as he went behind the sign. He found no such thing occurred. The shape of the top of Kennedy's head remains unchanged as he goes behind the sign and emerges. The msin reason the Photographic Panel thought there was a head turn there was because of their since-discredited acoustic analysis. I think they mistook, because his hand was between his face and the camera, a finger tip for a "nose", an error they extrapolated into a facial profile.

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The HSCA experts also recognized that Willis slide 5 is strong evidence that JFK was hit at least 17 frames before he disappears behind the freeway sign because Willis slide 5 corresponds with Z202. Willis specified that he snapped the picture in a startle reaction to hearing a shot fired. Allowing time for Willis's brain and nervous system to receive, process, and react to the sound of the shot, this means Willis heard the shot at around Z186-190, as the HSCA experts explained. I cover this in some detail in my book.

Book. You mean your collection of web articles. BTW, Willis said he thought the first shot caused Jackie to turn her head from his side of the street (Willis04) to the opposite side (Willis05). She begins to turn her head to her right in the Z170s. Why Willis claimed his slide was simutaneous with a shot? Well, he was actively promoting a commercial set of his Dealey Plaza slides, some of which he labelled in LN terms. I guess the LN-labelled slides you don't agree with.

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Re: When Was JBC Hit?
« Reply #74 on: November 29, 2023, 02:34:21 AM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: When Was JBC Hit?
« Reply #75 on: November 29, 2023, 06:21:23 AM »
Well isn't that convenient, the "plotters" only altered frames/sequences which don't affect your theories? What a load of self serving nonsense.

Anyway Griffith, let me get this straight, the "plotters" didn't alter the sequences where Oswald's bullets actually struck his victims but isn't one of your theories that the "plotters" altered ineffectual frames/timing around Brehm's son, is that right and the most important question that needs answering is WHY?

Speaking of self-serving nonsense…

“Oswald’s bullets”. LOL.
“Oswald’s sniper’s nest”. LOL.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2023, 06:23:08 AM by John Iacoletti »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: When Was JBC Hit?
« Reply #76 on: November 29, 2023, 06:57:08 AM »
Speaking of self-serving nonsense…

“Oswald’s bullets”. LOL.
“Oswald’s sniper’s nest”. LOL.

You can LOL as much as you like but it won't change history.

Brennan under oath verified that Oswald was holding a rifle in the 6th floor snipers nest window.
Brennan's close description of Oswald was in his affidavit and had to be the source of the virtually identical description that went out over the Police radio 15 minutes later.
Oswald's relatively fresh prints were discovered on the rifle rest box which was moved half way across the floor.
Oswald owned the rifle found on the 6th floor.
There was three shells in the snipers nest and all exclusively matched Oswald's rifle.
Oswald was photographed with the rifle.
The bullet fragments recovered from the Limo were an exclusive match to Oswald's rifle.
Oswald's prints were on the rifle, and Oswald's palmprint on the rifle was front page news on the following Monday.
Three types of Oswald's arrest shirt fibres were a match to the three types of fibres found on the rifle.
Oswald immediately flees the scene.
Oswald in his frantic rush get's on and off a bus.
Oswald's cab stops way past his Rooming house.
Oswald admits getting his revolver.
Oswald kills Tippit in front of an eyewitness and many more see Oswald flee that scene holding a gun.
Oswald's shells at the scene exclusively match Oswald revolver.
Oswald discards his jacket in a carpark.
Oswald tries to kill more Police when arrested.
Oswald was not wearing his Zipper jacket when arrested.
Oswald lies about the authenticated backyard photo's.
Oswald lies about the ownership of the rifle.
Oswald lies to Frazier about curtain rods.
Oswald lies about carrying his lunch.
Oswald lies about placing his long package on the back seat of Frazier's car.
Oswald lies about where he purchased his revolver.
Oswald defected to the enemy.
Oswald's told us in his own diary that he tried to commit suicide.
Oswald bashed his wife.
Oswald was a bad bad man!
Etc etc etc....

JohnM

« Last Edit: November 29, 2023, 07:02:08 AM by John Mytton »

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Re: When Was JBC Hit?
« Reply #76 on: November 29, 2023, 06:57:08 AM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: When Was JBC Hit?
« Reply #77 on: November 29, 2023, 11:51:03 AM »
Here is another clear, obvious fact that proves that JFK was hit well before Z224, and that therefore he and Connally were hit by separate bullets, even if we erroneously assume that Connally was hit at Z224: In Z224, we see that JFK has already brought his left hand up to the level of his throat and that Jackie is looking intently at him. Obviously, JFK began this motion with his left arm many frames earlier because his left hand is already up to the level of his throat in Z224.

Similarly, Jackie's reaction undeniably begins before she and JFK disappear behind the freeway sign. As anyone can plainly see, she starts to turn her head rapidly to the right, toward JFK, by no later than Z200, whereas before that point she is looking to her left or straight ahead. Obviously, something important happened to JFK that caused her to suddenly turn her head to the right to look at him. When she reemerges from behind the road sign at Z221, she is looking straight at JFK and continue to do so from that point onward.

In Z224, we also see Connally in the process of completing a rightward turn of his head. In Z228, he has completed his turn and is looking nearly straight ahead, with his shoulders virtually parallel to the limo's roll bar. In Z229, he is still looking nearly straight ahead and has no apparent expression of pain on his face, yet the Z224 SBT would have us believe that five frames earlier a bullet had torn through his chest, smashing several ribs along the way. And where is the powerful blow that Connally said he felt when the bullet hit him? No such reaction occurs until Z238, when his right shoulder is suddenly slammed downward and forward and an obvious expression of pain begins to form on his face.

But even if you choose to ignore Connally's reactions, there is no way anyone can rationally, seriously believe that JFK could have brought his left arm up toward his throat in response to a Z224 hit. Clearly, undeniably, that reaction began many frames before Z224, as did Jackie's response to that reaction.

These things are obvious to anyone with adequate eyesight. It is just a matter of whether one is willing to admit them.

Offline John Mytton

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Re: When Was JBC Hit?
« Reply #78 on: November 29, 2023, 04:08:18 PM »
          All Moot.  SBT = DOA

Sorry to interrupt this verbal diarrhoea Royell, the Warren Commission never relied on the SBF. Oops

There is very persuasive evidence from the experts to indicate that the same bullet which pierced the President’s throat also caused Governor Connally’s wounds. However, Governor Connally’s testimony and certain other factors have given rise to some difference of opinion as to this probability, but there is no question in the mind of any member of the Commission that all the shots which caused the President’s and Governor Connally’s wounds were fired from the sixth-floor window of the Texas School Book Depository

JohnM

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Re: When Was JBC Hit?
« Reply #78 on: November 29, 2023, 04:08:18 PM »


Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: When Was JBC Hit?
« Reply #79 on: November 29, 2023, 04:44:45 PM »
Here is another clear, obvious fact that proves that JFK was hit well before Z224, and that therefore he and Connally were hit by separate bullets, even if we erroneously assume that Connally was hit at Z224: In Z224, we see that JFK has already brought his left hand up to the level of his throat and that Jackie is looking intently at him. Obviously, JFK began this motion with his left arm many frames earlier because his left hand is already up to the level of his throat in Z224.

"that Connally was hit at Z224"? Who said that? Most LNers think he was struck several frames earlier than that. It takes a few frames for the jacket pluck to manifest; I use Z221-or-Z222 as the impact zone.

"In Z224, we see that JFK has already brought his left hand up to the level of his throat" You must mean "right hand". Actually Kennedy had begun to naturally lower his right arm in the Z190s. At that rate of lowering, the right arm be about where it is shown in Z224, when it first comes into view, over the car rail, still elevated and not near the throat area at all.. The right hand may have begun to cup if Kennedy was hit in the low-Z220s by the same bullet as Connally. As the neck transit concurred on the right side and near nerves to the right arm, the right arm reacts a frame-or-two earlier than the left side. Myers' 3D animation shows the left arm cupping (in the same manner as the right hand) and going towards the throat area in near-sync with the right arm.

Griffith wants you to believe the right arm is a reaction to a shot that struck Kennedy before he went behind the sign. Which means he thinks Kennedy's left arm exhibited no reaction at all until Z225.

   

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Similarly, Jackie's reaction undeniably begins before she and JFK disappear behind the freeway sign. As anyone can plainly see, she starts to turn her head rapidly to the right, toward JFK, by no later than Z200, whereas before that point she is looking to her left or straight ahead. Obviously, something important happened to JFK that caused her to suddenly turn her head to the right to look at him. When she reemerges from behind the road sign at Z221, she is looking straight at JFK and continue to do so from that point onward.

In Z224, we also see Connally in the process of completing a rightward turn of his head. In Z228, he has completed his turn and is looking nearly straight ahead, with his shoulders virtually parallel to the limo's roll bar. In Z229, he is still looking nearly straight ahead and has no apparent expression of pain on his face, yet the Z224 SBT would have us believe that five frames earlier a bullet had torn through his chest, smashing several ribs along the way. And where is the powerful blow that Connally said he felt when the bullet hit him? No such reaction occurs until Z238, when his right shoulder is suddenly slammed downward and forward and an obvious expression of pain begins to form on his face.

But even if you choose to ignore Connally's reactions, there is no way anyone can rationally, seriously believe that JFK could have brought his left arm up toward his throat in response to a Z224 hit. Clearly, undeniably, that reaction began many frames before Z224, as did Jackie's response to that reaction.

These things are obvious to anyone with adequate eyesight. It is just a matter of whether one is willing to admit them.

"Z224 SBT" What SBT at Z224? Why do you misrepresent things?

 

"where is the powerful blow that Connally said he felt when the bullet hit him? No such reaction occurs until Z238" There's a huge right shoulder collapse in the Z220s, before the hat flip, which peaks over a half-second before Griffith's Z238. Folks, beware. This fellow now wants you to buy a book chock full of his bad photo-interpretations and biased cherry-picks.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2023, 08:31:24 PM by Jerry Organ »